Live in Wayfarer 3.1 is a new set of acceptance criteria! Please browse the information in this category with caution as it is in reference to the previous review guidelines. To learn more about the new criteria, see here: https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/wayfarer/
Isn't most of London littered in stops anyway so this may not effect much of London anyway?
They're not all K6 outside of London. There's a K3 near Rhynd in Scotland. A K4 is Warrington. Let's not forget that Hull and the areas where KCOM operates have several different designs of telephone box, the only differences are the lack of the crown on top of the boxes and the fact that they're painted a creamy white colour instead of red.
But this is a prime example of why NIA shouldn't be setting regional guidelines when they don't understand the significance of certain things in certain countries.
Also, out of all the different designs of the red telephone box, it's the K6 that is regarded as being a British cultural icon but not all of them are listed.
Over 10,000 K6 telephone boxes still exist, so it's easy to see why NIA would regard them as mass produced.
As for the other models, these are rough numbers of how many are left:
K1 - 5
K2 - Over 200
K3 - 2
K4 - 5
K5 - 0
K7 - 0
K8 - 54
KX100 - 40,500
KX100plus - 5000
It would be helpful then to see what's more common where, fornexample, theres 10,000 k6, but say 5000 are in london, 4000 in the rest of england and then 1000 scattered round scotland and Wales, would that 1000 not be considered quite rare in comparison?
Does this mean we can report defibrillator phone boxes for removal and Niantic will do so and acknowledge that they shouldn’t have been accepted?
I don’t think this is correct, the information I’ve seen doesn’t have those numbers. Do you have a source to back up your claim?
also I can 100% disprove your claim that outside of London all Red Phone boxes are K6, I’ve definitely reviewed a very rare K8 in a tiny village
Yes I must admit I cant find numbers that back up their claims either.
I got the number of 8000 from bt. They own the phoneboxes. https://www.btplc.com/BTToday/NewsList/Classicredphoneboxringsup80years/index.htm
It was in 2016 so must be semi-accurate. I saw an article last year that said many had been decommissioned up North and removed though so this may have changed drastically.
"around 8,000 are traditional red phone boxes, most of them the K6" is the official quote. I dont think BT actually own 8000 of them as payphones - most have been sold to local communities and turned into defibs.
Where does it say about London having over 5000 boxes though?
I do think good points are being about the complexity .
The critical part here is how does wayfarer plan to convey this guideline to all reviewers - active and inactive. And preferably to submitters so they submit appropriate nominations.
Agreed - Outside of London they're also frequently listed for their historic importance by Historic England: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/results/?searchType=NHLE+Simple&search=k6
@NianticCasey-ING - Surely if the national heritage body consider something historically significant it's difficult to argue that they're not objects of historical interest?
You also say that too many remain in production - I'm not sure where you get that information - they stopped production of K6's before I was born and I'm at the half-century mark :-)
Of the 10,700 K6s still in operations, only 2,382 are listed. That should tell you that K6s should not be automatically accepted.
The last figure BT produced was 8000, that 10,700 is an old estimate, but that wasn't my point - if a K6 box is listed as historically significant then surely they should be eligible (many of the London ones aren't because that's where you'll still find a few thousand) - they're increasingly rare outside London.
@NianticCasey-ING actually said
For the much more common K6, there are too many remaining in production to not be considered mass-produced objects.
This does not say K6 can’t be accepted. I would equate the mass produced phrase to be assessed under visually unique -so low score.
But if one is listed or repurposed as a library for example then that should make it a perfectly acceptable candidate.
So this is an example of having to provide an individual case for a K6 to be accepted - careful reviewing.
As others have said K6 is no longer in production so that part of the ruling being wrong does not help in providing clarity.
This may help - someone posted on Reddit a map of K6 boxes.
Data mining tool used for OpenStreetMap - desn't seem fully accurate though as I know two are missing from my area (adding them myself now to the OSM):
Surely visually unique scores only count for the local area?
So, if there are no other K6s on the map when reviewing a K6 that's been nominated, it would be "visually unique", whereas if there are several others on the map, then it wouldn't be as visually unique.
Visually unique for Wayfarer means that you're in that street, someone asks you:
Where's the phone box?
and you can point them exactly to it. It doesn't mean that's the unique telephone box in all the town, just that when you're around you know what's the wayspot.
@NianticCasey-ING I've got a heads-up for you on a bad precedent, see a recent removal request's decision here:
In brief, the Niantic employee recognizes that the original submission had a falsified picture, using a "George" GR postbox photo. The actual postbox is a new, common, Elizabeth EIIR one. But rather than remove the abusively faked wayspot, they instead recommend that a new "correct" photo be added to the existing location.
I'm officially aghast.
After the controversy from earlier today, where an EIIR was left in place, after it was originally submitted with a FAKE/FALSE GR photo...
They have gone and decided that a previous identical situation, a falsified photo in place of the COMMON mailbox, was incorrect. And they've reversed THAT decision too, thus restoring the wayspot.
@NianticCasey-ING to be CLEAR. This incident is basically a travesty, and leaving it an entire 24 hours without comment is unconscionable.
Postboxes, just like the phone booths in this thread, are a UK-ism. MOST are simply common objects, and ineligible. But SOME are deemed to be old enough or rare enough to be considered historic or noteworthy.
It is true that in other countries, neither phoneboxes nor mailboxes would EVER be eligible under any rules, including my country. You’d literally have to find an original prop from Bill and Ted or somesuch to even think about submitting them. And an official Niantic worker acting to approve or reject deletion requests MUST be aware of the local nuances like the eligibility of King George vs Queen Elizabeth era postboxes.
There are further considerations. Are these the same employees who are manually reviewing the so-called “booby trap” nominations? How many postboxes have been incorrectly reviewed by them, thus dropping players’ wayfarer scores?
Also the ludicrous idea that somebody is able to successfully submit an ineligible object by using a false photo, with NEITHER repercussions for the submitter, nor an ability to later remove the wayspot? If something was not eligible in the first place, its removal upon discovery should be mandated, not ignored.
For these reasons and more, the community here is outraged.
@NianticCasey-ING can you please, please, pretty please, chip in about this pair of postbox wayspots? Neither should have been accepted by Wayfarer reviewers in the first place, as the Elizabeth postboxes are just too "common".
At minimum, we reeeeeally want to know that you've brought them to the attention of the Wayfarer team. It would be a bonus to know that they're having a lively discussion about the removal of wayspots which ONLY were approved through abuse (ie. the faked photos), and that you've been waiting for their answer before commenting.
But this deafening silence is leaving us all in a very uncomfortable position.
Maybe they think EIIR ones are actually acceptable? Probably not but only thing I can think
@NianticCasey-ING a week+ on now and we are still waiting for comment
Unrelatedly, the “falsified picture” wayspot I flagged for removal review still waits said review, since the 14th. I’ve definitely supplied ample evidence that THAT submission was of a book cover, not a trail sign.
Why not just get rid of all the postbox portals and that would make reviewing even simpler.
A shame to lose the Victoria VR postboxes but a sacrifice I'm happy to make.
Why are people talking about postboxes in this thread?
Thank you! I started the thread and I know there are similarities with the whole Post box Phone box thing for UK history but I'm confused why its turned into a Niantic Casey witch hunt about something to do with photo discs I think?!