Little Free Library

Hi! I just received a second rejection for a nomination, and would love feedback as I’m not understanding the rationale for rejection. The nomination is for a Little Free Library (officially registered and on the Little Free Library map) that’s on a public curb cut (between the sidewalk and the roadway.) I’ve indicated that the LFL is

on public property in the supplemental material, and tried to make this evident in the photos. But the reason given for rejection is that the stop is on private property. Am I missing something? Or is there something else I can do to help with the nomination? Thanks!!

Comments

  • Purptacular-PGOPurptacular-PGO Posts: 284 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2020

    We could argue about whether this is or isn't considered to be on private residential property, but regardless it is simply too close to a single family home for me to consider it to be eligible. The corner of the house behind looks like it's not more than 10 meters away from the little free library.

    Wayfarer Help says "Please be sure to closely review nominations whose real-world location appears to be within 40 meters of private, single-family residential property... To be clear, nominations should be rejected if their real-world location appears to be on private, single-family residential property or might encourage people to go onto private property (e.g., because the real-world location is at the end of a private driveway)." I would reject this under the latter part of that consideration.

  • cyndiepooh-INGcyndiepooh-ING Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭✭✭

    purptacular is exactly right. this is directly adjacent to someone's private driveway, so there is no way this would ever be acceptable.

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    Thanks. Does it matter at all that the buildings are not single-family homes? (The neighborhood is all multi-family apartments, including the buildings behind the library, and the one associated with the driveway.)

  • SPD85-PGOSPD85-PGO Posts: 170 ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, if those are multi-family homes, then they are not considered private residential property by Niantic. That means the it should be viewed according to other criteria, which states that little free libraries are acceptable.

    I would try to provide proof that those houses are multi-family rather than single-family in order to get better reviews.

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    (For details, the building behind the library has two apartment units with separate street addresses, and a business office in the basement. The adjacent building that’s associated with the driveway has three separate apartment units.)

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    SPD85–PGO: thanks. Will do.

  • Purptacular-PGOPurptacular-PGO Posts: 284 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2020

    @SnufkinSongs-PGO Being surrounded by apartments should make all the difference... you just need to make sure your voters know it.

    If the apartments are visually obvious, I would take the supporting photo in a way to show them in the background. If the apartment community has a name, use it in both the description - maybe even in the title - and put the location as the first sentence of the supporting info. Something like "Located on the grounds of the Such-and-Such apartment complex" or "This little free library is surrounded by duplex apartments" will help keep voters from jumping to the more obvious conclusion that house-like buildings in the background are single family homes.

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    Thanks again! Really appreciate it.

  • Ultimo6419-PGOUltimo6419-PGO Posts: 88 ✭✭✭

    Hm. I would still reject it. Either because it looks like a featured wayspot as it can easily be transported. Or because it is temporary as I would not believe it could withstand fall/ winter weather conditions.

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    The library is in a container with a bottom layer of concrete, can’t be lifted, is a library constructed by the Little Free Library organization, and is publicly registered on the Little Free Library map (which can be searched and accessed by anyone, including reviewers.) All LFLs of this type remain outside year round. I guess this is a place where I’m not quite understanding the need to have *so much* supporting information for a category of waypoint that’s recognized as eligible? I of course understand the private property restrictions! But at a certain point, the application of scrutiny feels arbitrary.

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    (In case this tool is helpful to any other reviewers, the Little Free Library world map is here: https://littlefreelibrary.org/ourmap/

    To be an actual LFL, the library must be officially registered with the LFL organization, and visibly display a registered charter number. Not all registered LFLs are on their map, but if it is on the map then it’s a recognized library.)

  • 00Sterling-PGO00Sterling-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    Per Niantic Guidelines

    Please be sure to closely review nominations whose real-world location appears to be within 40 meters of private, single-family residential property, and nominations whose real-world location appears to be in a neighborhood park. To be clear, nominations should be rejected if their real-world location appears to be on private, single-family residential property or might encourage people to go onto private property (e.g., because the real-world location is at the end of a private driveway).

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    OOSterling: thanks. This has been asked and answered above! (Nearby buildings are not single-family residences.)

  • 00Sterling-PGO00Sterling-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    I read that. From the pictures, I can see where people erred on the side of rejecting it.

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    Nomination was rejected again, again with the reason being that it’s on private property. I had clarified in the description that the library is in front of multi-family homes (with evidence from google maps that each building encompasses multiple street addresses, and a photo that clearly shows multiple entrances to the building that correspond to those separate street numbers.) I know I’m not alone in finding this process incredibly frustrating, and Little Free Libraries seem like a type of waypoint that could really use some eligibility clarification.


  • Misch60-PGOMisch60-PGO Posts: 225 ✭✭✭

    One could also think that the pot in which it is in, is easily lifted, and moved back to the property of the people, as it does not look to be fixed at that exact spot. (I know it may be fixed, but it may look different for reviewers)

  • TorvoTeratos-PGOTorvoTeratos-PGO Posts: 161 ✭✭✭

    I personally found the 40 m rule confusing to navigate when I was first figuring it out and discovering how specific and particular - yet conflicting - Niantic's wording can be. You might try spelling it out even more that "LFL is in front of an apartment complex, a multi-family home, and thus not invalidated by the qualification of waypoints being ineligible 40m from single family homes" with a link from staff clarifying this if at all possible.

    Unfortunately, this page, just says "private residential property" for LFLs, not "single family units".

    (Sounds like you may have done this, but only your description is included in your photo up there, so I'm not positive. Apologies if I'm just repeating what you just tried!)

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    Thanks! I had included evidence that the buildings are multi-family, but hadn’t spelled out the connection between this and the criteria. Will try that!

    Current copy, if anyone has suggestions for improvement (that fit within the character limit!):

    Waypoint description: “Little Free Library Charter #******. Year-round library for multi-family homes, decorated with characters from Tove Jansson’s series of children’s books about the Moomintrolls.”

    Supporting info (currently at character limit): “On curb cut in front of multi-family bldgs. Can see each nearby bldg corresponds to more than one street number. Per Niantic criteria multi-unit bldgs are not private residences. LFL charter #****** registered on LFL map: https://littlefreelibrary.org/ourmap/ Imbedded in concrete, and permanent.”


    Thanks again.

  • cyndiepooh-INGcyndiepooh-ING Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭✭✭

    description great now. suggest you reorganize supporting info to not just tack the permanent part at the end because people who won't click links won't get that far. Maybe start "Permanently embedded in concrete on curb cut in front of multi-family bldgs. Can see each nearby bldg corresponds to more than one street number to confirm not private residences...." then continue on with the links.

    it's a tricky tightrope trying to word things to inform the casual reviewer but not to insult the experienced reviewer.

    i didn't address the permanence issue the first time i looked at this because of the driveway issue that i thought was to a private residence. if this is on street view in the same position, it would help. if it is not, you may want to add a photosphere with the street view app. it does look like a pot that can be moved.

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    Thanks!! Will do that! With the photosphere — I had tried, but ran into an issue where street view has the house numbers incorrectly marked, so it wouldn’t let me upload to the correct location. (This is an issue with the nomination itself, actually, because the street address that comes up with the waypoint correctly located on the map is two buildings off.) I’m also very inexperienced with uploading photospheres, though, so there may be a workaround that I wasn’t seeing!! I was hoping the LFL map that shows the library might help with that, too.

  • DukeOfBellaire-PGODukeOfBellaire-PGO Posts: 219 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2020

    When I saw this the other day, I knew this was going to be difficult to pass this nomination. Like others mentioned, my first thought was a "temporary" placement on a potted plant. It doesn't matter that it's poured in concrete, two Machamps can lift and haul it away.

    It also has shims underneath it for leveling which makes me skeptical as a permanent placement like digging a hole and then pour concrete into the ground with the post. This placement appears to be intentional for this photo and maybe later move it to the other side of the sidewalk or turn it around as it doesn't make sense to face the road. It's not pedestrian safe to force people to stand on the road and check out a crumble old book.

    And finally, the photo of the car parked down the street and lined up with this FLF literally appear to be on the street.

    Just move it (s/) and retake the far-away supporting photo showing at least two mailboxes or doors on the multiplex. But it still may not pass the permanent test as renters usually cannot tamper with the landlord's property.

    Post edited by DukeOfBellaire-PGO on
  • Ultimo6419-PGOUltimo6419-PGO Posts: 88 ✭✭✭

    Is it legal in your country to place objects on the road (other than vehicles)? If not, the object would not be eligible and has to be rated "temporary" as the local administration would remove it within a short period. Similar issue with street art.

  • SnufkinSongs-PGOSnufkinSongs-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭

    I live in this neighborhood, and yes, it’s legal and permanent. And the entire neighborhood uses the library. There is what amounts to a median **** between the sidewalk and the roadway (which is visible on the street view image of the road.) There’s only so much space to address so many things in the supporting section — and I have a feeling that even if I did, more concerns would be created!

  • AgentCubebot-INGAgentCubebot-ING Posts: 25 ✭✭✭

    If someone places a LFL in front of their home, they want people to come and use it. It is an open invitation for people to visit and gather and to see the contents. Doesn't that superseded the rule of "waypoints being ineligible 40m from single family homes"?

  • TorvoTeratos-PGOTorvoTeratos-PGO Posts: 161 ✭✭✭

    This debate has been had many times on the forum and consensus always seems to be: "nope; with the lawsuit, strict is better than sorry".

    The ruling has frustrated me at times, too (before I realized the 40 m rule was a rule, I had an LFL right across the street from a park - with multiple stops and gyms - get rejected because it sits on the residential side of the street rather than the park side).

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 2,079 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2020

    It means that they are inviting people to walk up, view the contents, take or leave one or more books, and then move along. It does not mean they are inviting potentially groups of 20+ people to drive up and stand in front of their house for 10+ minutes for reasons completely unrelated to the library.

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