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Waypoints not appearing in Pokemon Go

Hunmadar-PGOHunmadar-PGO Posts: 85 ✭✭
edited November 2020 in Report a Bug


Most likely this will reach out to nobody and will achieve absolutely nothing, but I'm trying anyways.

Pokemon Go has a system hidden from players. Google has a library called S2, which covers the surface of the Earth with diamonds. Of all the wayspots available in Niantic games, Pokemon go only gets a subset of them, limited by level 17 "cells" of that library. This leads to a number of problems:

-Pokemon go players are frustrated that they have less wayspots available in their games

-Pokemon go players actively dislike ingress and their playerbase because they do not have this limitation

-Pokemon go players are discouraged to submit new waypoints because they may not appear in their game

-Pokemon go players are encouraged to find loopholes to try to game the system so they can have wayspots appear in their game too, that other games have by default.

The last point is a major problem for Wayfarer. A large number of pokemon go players are submitting location edit requests to move waypoints away from their real world location so that another one appears in their games. They are also encouraged to submit new waypoints away from their real world location, hoping that this way it appears in Pokemon go as well.

All of this could be prevented by removing this pointless antiquated limitation. Pokemon go players would be happy, because they would see a small increase of pokestops and/or gyms in their games. Reviewers would be happy because they would see much less location edits. Pokemon go submitters would be happy because they could submit without the fear of their nomination not appearing in their game. All submitters would be happy because of the reduced number of edits, their submissions would be voted for quicker. Niantic would be happy because they would cut down on the number of incorrect locations of waypoints and would have a much more accurate database.

The number of pokestops and/or gyms that would appear in Pokemon go this way would not be significant enough so that players would gain an unfair advantage. Mostly small towns where everything that can be nominated is in the main square would benefit a lot and would encourage much more players to play Pokemon go.

Thank you if you have read this far. You will most likely close this thread without escalating this issue. I'm sorry if this is the case, I'm not sure if there is anything more I can do.

9 votes

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  • LukeAllStars-INGLukeAllStars-ING Posts: 4,624 Ambassador

    "A large number of pokemon go players are submitting location edit requests to move waypoints away from their real world location so that it appears in their games"

    As long as they donot have the POI in their game, this sentance doesnt really make sence. The only option is to appeal via the form, but Nia is not approving this.

    I wouldnt be discouraged because of the system. I also never dislike soneone playing a way differentgame where more POIs are needed. If a 17 S2 is full, I am simply not submitting it. The abuse Problem is more likely to mismatch locations when submitting. Also, I would say, that the biggedt problem are trash nominations dumping the system. Mostly submitted via PoGo players making use of priority areas they donot deserve. The System supports the wrong wayfarers, thats a fact.

  • Hunmadar-PGOHunmadar-PGO Posts: 85 ✭✭

    I edited my post to make it more clear.

    I'm trying to solve this specific issue, not all issues in wayfarer. Feel free to create a different thread for those.

  • Zivermiver-PGOZivermiver-PGO Posts: 1 ✭✭

    Totally agree. The S2 Cell stuff makes 0 sense. I hope this will change in the future

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 4,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It was The Pokemon Company is the one that decided to use the spacing algorithm. NIantic cannot change it.

  • NylaaOleah-PGONylaaOleah-PGO Posts: 7 ✭✭

    Totally agree. Let me share my experience:

    I also saw many screenshots about areas where players created countless of gyms, absolutely abusing the system for their own favor. I understand the purpose of the game - go out, explore the world and have fun. These places, mostly, help for hardcore raiders, who want to have the maximum chance for their 100% IV/shiny Pokémon. I cannot blame them, while at the same time, I understand that you wanted to fix this issue. But oh man, you had months and you came up with the lowest effort-lowest effectiveness solution.

    I was visiting a friend, who is also mainly PoGo player. She is around lvl32, far far away from lvl38 (where submission is available). She is living a mid-size town, with some great parks to play, but in her very close area, there is almost nothing. She is at home with her toddler, she would like to play while they are out walking. We previously agreed that the next time I visit her, I'll save all my submissions and help to improve her area. I asked her to check for some candidates, so we can write the wording beforehand.

    We arrived their nearest playground (the toddler's favourite), which is already in the game. Next to it you can find an outdoor gym - my friend suggested that it could be a wonderful POI. Great, 5* candidate, but first, let's check Ingress. OFC, the outdoor gym is an existing POI, sharing the same cell as the playground. A few months ago, it would have been easy-peasy - moving the POI to the next cell (the playground is pretty long, it has some parts in that cell too), goes thru the system in 4 weeks and in the end, you have 2 POIs in PoGo. But with your extremely stupid change, I can move it 10 meters and it will still remain in the original cell. I have limited options:

    -I submit the change, I hope that the reviewers will accept my suggestion (as I am not allowed to add any 'suggestive' wording) and next time I go there, I submit another change, which hopefully can go to the next cell (for this particular POI, I would have needed 35-45 meters).

    -I can request to remove the POI (which is incredibly stupid, as the playground is existing and the location is correct), then the next time I go there I can submit it to the other cell. Let me not explain why it is senseless.

    -I can leave it as it is and not helping my friend/the community there.

    What you, as the developer of Wayfarer, could have done to stop the abuse of your system while helping to improve the gameplay (which results higher revenue --> more money for Niantic AR development)?

    -First: listen to the actual users/gamers. While the location edit was disabled, many forum and reddit posts have been submitted about the topic, with some great ideas - which are much better and more reasonable, than your 'solution'. E.g.: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/5868/edit-location-only-15m ; https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/31017 ; https://www.reddit.com/r/NianticWayfarer/comments/hc7uw1/niantic_temporarily_disabling_location_edits/

    -Second: post your 'hidden' rules. Being transparent helps for the community to understand what you are doing and how we can adapt them while respecting the guidelines. Right now, many people are testing the new system and sooner or later they will figure it out how to 'abuse' it again in their favor. Setting up clear rules and have an open discussion with the users will help you improve your processes.

    -Third (this is a long one): Improve the nomination feature and database synchronization in all platforms (Ingress, PoGo, WU and soon Catan). Currently PoGo players cannot see all the POIs existing in your database and WU map has massive de-sync for months now. I know that WU has no nomination feature right now and Catan is still in UAT, but sooner or later the gamers for these platforms will/should also get the function. It is totally unacceptable, that certain players have no idea if a POI is already in the system or not. IMHO you should forget the '1 S2L17 cell - 1 POI' (this was suggested in many forum threads linked above) and should use the same rules across all platforms, but again, use the ideas from the community if you cannot come up with something better.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 4,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2020

    The fact that Niantic has doubled down on the spacing algorithm twice (once with just gym, then all Pokespots) indicates that they don't have the authority to change it.

    P.S. I must remind everyone that Pokemon GO is a licensed property that is not owned by Niantic and all decisions relating to game design must go through The Pokemon Company first. And the spacing algorithm is very much part of that game design.

  • Hunmadar-PGOHunmadar-PGO Posts: 85 ✭✭

    You are just blind guessing, not providing actual proof. They made a solution which is quick and dirty, but not because of TPC. TPC has very little saying in POGO, only when it comes to the models of pokemon and shinies.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 4,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You honestly think that TPC will has little control over the license to their only property? You are extremely naive if you believe that.

  • Hunmadar-PGOHunmadar-PGO Posts: 85 ✭✭

    Let's not get too much into that. I'm open to discussion in PM if you really want to talk about TPC. What this thread is about is to change the existing limitation. Whether its Niantic or TPC, there has to be a way for somebody to re-analize the need for this system.

  • MrJPGames-INGMrJPGames-ING Posts: 43 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2020

    This is not a bug. It's a design choose.

    This should be in the discussion section. As disagreements about intended behaviour are fine, but definitely not bugs.

    Not that it really matters anyways, there is a reason it's being done like this. Yes there are some downsides, especially to those who wish to have very high density of stops (for whatever reason, idk just walk maybe?).

    Really there are only two problems I personally have with the L17 rule:

    1. It's hidden from players causing confusion. A simple fix would be to show all accepted nominations in an area before submitting and while reviewing. IE a pure DB with no limits that is then used to import to all games with their respective rules. This pure DB would be shown during submission time and when checking for duplicates.
    2. In some rural areas there is a small area dense with IRL POIs. These areas could use more POIs to make the games playable around that area, and L17 rules as well as the 20m rule can cause the total number of POIs to be smaller than it would already be due to the rural location. The solution I would have for this is to use the cell system again and check overall density over a large area. If that is really low allow 2 POIs per L17 for instance. Making high density allowed only when there is no spread.
  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In order to re-analyze the system you should provide any new info that hasn't been debated multiple times. Any new reason that hasn't been taken into consideration, new developments, anything that can change the outcome of their previous analysis.

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