St. Cloud Abuse Update 5
St. Cloud is at it again. All of these POIs are located where removed POIs previously existed. From now on I will be doing smaller (and likely more frequent) updates as the abuse is discovered. Hopefully this will lead to this group finally being properly held accountable, as 6 months later, they are continuing their abuse.
Sugar Mill North Information Board
https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=28.250879,-81.302466&z=17&pll=28.250879,-81.302466
Does not exist at this location, private residential property
Sugar Mill Horseshoe
https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=28.250325,-81.302709&z=17&pll=28.250325,-81.302709
Does not exist at this location, private residential property
Purple Seahorse
https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=28.365099,-81.273779&z=17&pll=28.365099,-81.273779
Does not exist at this location
Jesus With Lambs Fountain
https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=28.247775,-81.299096&z=17&pll=28.247775,-81.299096
This is a K-12 School
Grace Lutheran Church
https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=28.247367,-81.298959&z=17&pll=28.247367,-81.298959
This is a K-12 School
In addition to the above POIs, there is also this one in voting, which will likely be abusively moved similar to Sugar Mill North Information Board (the first POI on this list).
Before I end this, I just want to say, imagine the time and resources that could be saved if Niantic had taken this seriously 6 months ago when I first reported this. Imagine the example that could have been set for the entire Wayfarer community. Imagine the headaches that could have been spared on these forums.
It is time to take this type of chronic behavior seriously. I understand that the point of warnings and less severe punishments is to try to rehabilitate the users involved in abuse. After 6+ months, numerous reports, and hundreds of Wayspots removed (most of which are being placed in the same places over and over again), these people have yet to learn their lesson and clearly have no intention of stopping. These people are openly creating new accounts to continue this abuse, all for the benefit of their precious "main" Pokemon Go accounts. It is time for real punishments. These people's accounts need permanent bans. Until these people have something taken away that they truly care about, this will be an endless cycle. The lack of proper action by Niantic only creates ill will towards the Wayfarer team in the eyes of the wayfarer community - and that ill will is rapidly growing as these issues persist and grow.
Comments
I second your feeling on the lack of severe punishment against "chronic" abusers. It's really not hard to distinguish between sporadic one-time abuse and long-time, deliberate, systematic abuse. Giving the same punishments to these two different kinds of abusers is baffling.
Like I've said in the past, punishment that doesn't cause the behavior to cease is, by definition, not punishment. If what you're doing is causing the behavior to continue and even increase, then you need to rethink your methods.
First off, you do not live in Saint Cloud. **** . Secondly, you have a grudge against the St. Cloud group for kicking you out. This is your retaliation.
Now for the good stuff... It is not a k-12 school. It is, in fact, a PRE K school and church. If you are going to judge these stops and gyms to get them taken down then please do so completely and properly.
Grace Lutheran is a church and a preschool. Two separate entrances to each facility. NEITHER of them are associated with the other except for the name.
The Jesus With Lambs fountain is a statue that sits in the front garden of the church.
It is placed there as a silent spot for folks to pray and feel at peace.
You took one picture of the area and slammed the door shut that you are right and can't be proven wrong. Let me take a shot at that since I live across the street. Since it is night time, I will digress the pictures till the morning so that everyone can see the whole story and not just your rendition of it.
ifonly he could get those 6 months of his life back
The soap opera goes on! Got my popcorn ready and hopefully i won't be getting any more warnings or down votes 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Do so quietly and I'll grab my popcorn right next to you
I also tend to agree that it is very unusual for this pursuit of one place (Saint Cloud). If this case is really about one player's revenge against the area using false abuse reports, why Niantic dosen't stop it? It is not pleasant to see such rivalries in a game that supposed to connect people .
If there wasn't so much abuse in St. Cloud, he'd have nothing to report. Whoever added all the fake stuff instead of real stuff is the real person messing you over.
We all know the history in the area and all, but aren't these reports supposed to have some kind of evidence?
from my understanding, everything that has been posted is not fake but allegedly not in its correct location. So Niantic will look and determine what is legit or not or move to correct location.
however. As someone that travels all over I have seen abuse that OP has posted all over; Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, Sarasota, New York, San Antonio, Boston. POIs in the middle of streets or nothing really where it was said to be. We have people on other posts talk about similar abuse in Germany Belgium Spain and Australia. This is not only something that is occurring in Saint Cloud but all over. It is just that Saint Cloud is being singled out
then we hear about collusion from a single post over two or theee years ago but no real evidence that there was actual collusion on people to vote or appraise a certain way. But I know a lot of the same people that wave there fingers at Saint Cloud are in Facebook and Discord groups that discuss how to vote and appraise POIs. To me that is not a far cry for collusion as well
i don’t want to take away from the overall intent of the OP, if the highlighted POIs are deemed abuse then I am sure Niantic will do the right thing and remove POIs that do not meet criteria. However the constant threat of some person that has never step foot in a town or place really is disheartening and how some of his supporters treat or react to those that try to speak counter to the OP is just as wrong.
We are a COMMUNITY. We all want the same goals and we all want the RIGHT thing to occur.
Trust me, i have so much to say but it will fall on deaf ears. I'll just sit here watching the same people that disliked my posts about Niantic now do the exact same thing 🙃
Dang, if there's abuse in all those places, you gotta report those. Could help nab all the other accounts that have been spreading abuse everywhere.
I don’t have time or resources to report everything I see. When I do have time and can sit down and do it. I report through the ingame reports.
Yeah, fair. I try to report what I can in-game when I see it, but the write-ups here tend to be more effective. But doing write-ups like @AisforAndis-ING is tough. Honestly, props to him for going the extra mile.
Please, everyone, look at all of the pictures and make your own opinion as to whether or not this is a grudge against St. Cloud. Also, compare them to the one, and only one, of the whole area that he took. You can tell from my pictures that they are of the same thing.
I just went out and took the pictures of the "fake" stops and gym. I have never denied that it is a school just that it is not a K-12 school as he stated. It is in fact a preschool with a separate entrance.
1st photo, 152.46kb, is a photo of the entrance... 2nd photo, 142.91 kb, is a close up of the entrance so that it is legible to read that it is a school and a church... 3rd photo 112.07 kb is a photo of the church entrance and the cross (this is a gym) on top of it. You can tell it is from the same place because of the tree that is on all three of the photos so far... 4th photo, 144.06 kb, is of the Jesus With Lamb Fountain statue (This is a Pokestop) and it is a little farther down but you can still see the entrance of the church sidewalk.... 5th photo, 146.67 kb, is the end of the church and school and shows the mural that Andi took a picture of to show that it is a school.
This all proves that he took selective pictures and only those that enhance his case. Once again, if you are going to tell a story about fake stops and gyms, please tell the whole story. These stops were put in legitimately. He has a vengeance against us.
If it is his "job" to go around and do all the fake stops, then where are the ones from Tampa which is where he lives???
Is his life so mundane that he comes over here, two hours away, just to look for fake stops? Think about this for a moment... this is his 5th update of our town. Where are the reports for other towns? I can guarantee you that St. Cloud isn't the only town with stops and gyms that Andi would find fake.
@SC2RFLOC-PGO If there is a school—even a preschool or daycare center—at the church, then the church meets the k12 rejection criteria and removal criteria. You have shown that the OP is correct in reporting the church as an invalid Wayspot. The motivations for reporting invalid Wayspots is inconsequential.
Also, you cannot defame another forum member by accusing them of "bad faith" because you don't like the fact that they are reporting invalid and abusive Wayspots or nominations in a specific area. This is a direct violation of Clause III of the Community Guidelines. ALL Wayfarers should strive to report invalid Wayspots where they find them. Any further accusations of bad faith or attempts to defame a forum member will be reported.
Thank you for the clarifications. It is indeed puzzling that someone complains about an area without being physically there, and from what you describe he also has a reason for revenge for taking him out of some groups according to what you wrote.
If this is indeed revenge as you describe, what do you think is the best way to report it to Niantic? Because in the meantime it does not seem that your area receives much sympathy in this forum and if you are on the right side maybe you need to think of another way to proceed . Maybe open a post with proofs that the reports against your area are false?
In any case, I wish peace and quiet to all involved and whoever harms another will stop doing so soon.
Pokemon Go is meant to connect, not divide.
I think you should address all of his claims, not just the one you found wrong. If this player did go out to photo evidences for his claims, he deserves a full reference to all the points he raised.
I will also look at these claims, but please try to be objective towards each side. As a bystander, trying to figure out who is right and who is not, it seems that some of the comments here are sympathetic to only one side.
The very FEW waypoints that "exist" have been proven to be very lackluster and failed at appeals for various reasons including no pedestrian access. There's an appeals process that can be followed on here and Andis himself has volunteered to help restore anything that was wrongfully removed. So far i think those have been 0. So yeah no sympathy from anyone in here when you can't prove him wrong.
Look for yourself no one is being one sided. Just look at the first one for example. How can an outdoor informational board be right on the middle of a residential home? Please do some homework before you start wrongfully defending one side and accusing the other.
Every single report St. cloud defenders focus on one point that might exist but somehow is not eligible, yet they ignore the DOZENS of obviously abused waypoints.
Their entire claim is based on a presumption of bad faith, not on any actual evidence. When someone bases their entire argument on ad homonym attacks, there is no point at looking any further into their argument.
I'm a player from Latvia and English is not my native language, so it takes me time to understand his claims to the end. But i'll do my best.
I am not defending either side - I just saying that claims should be treated objectively.
From the side it feels like you are attacking using aggressive words (like "do some homework") and instead of reaching the truth it creates antagonisms and thought that you prefers one side instead of examining the claims of both parties.
It gets tiring to have to argue against the massive abuse when all you had to do was look at a couple of the examples and you can see the abuse for yourself. Have you looked at the other reports? This is the 5TH!!! Report if all this seems one sided is because it is, we're tired of the abuse and lack of punishments it deserves.
I certainly agree with you that one should examine claims and not attack players.
I am not at all referring to the issue of good faith or not, it sounds like there is a clash here between two sides that has been going on for some time, so surely both sides will show hostility, so regardless of how they feel we should only check their claims.
Niantic and we should judge objectively, not be lawyers defending any party. Without checking the claims, we will not be able to know who is right and who is not.
One side presents evidence of fake or invalid Wayspots. The other side has only engaged in claims of "bad faith" and other ad homonym attacks. It's no wonder everyone has taken the side of the one who has consistently presented evidence and not the side whose only response has been to engage in ad homonym attacks.
But why do you take it personally? (-:
I dont know who is "we're", but i do believe every player has his own opinion and there is no one opinion for everyone who visits this forums.
Ultimately it is Niantic that will examine and decide whether the reports are corrected or not. I think some of the players who write here should separate emotions and not get excited about anything that is not directly related to them.
I'm here to learn things, not to get upset or happy at other player's reports. I also think that if we are objective and not emotional we can give a cleaner and more professional opinion.
It's personal when a group of people try to insult our intelligence and continue with the blatant abuse. As Farid said, one side has presented evidence, the other opts to make baseless accusations, threats and continues the abuse. Hard to be neutral in situations like that. We're on report #5 with totals well over 100.
farix also said we should not defame other forum members as well. As it is a violation of clause III of the community guidelines. Let’s all please be objective and fair to the process. I am sure Niantic will respond accordingly
just another example of abuse I noticed and reported was at Universal Studios. For some reason the welcome to Universal sign over the parking attendant kiosks as you drive in to pay for parking has a stop over the middle of the road. I was able to report because there is no actual pedestrian access and can only be reached when you are in your car to pay for parking. That is abuse, so I reported it it i am not going to go after the entire orlando community for abuse.
My dear fellow to the wonderful world of Pokemon Go, I am sure that if you look at this conversation objectively you will understand that even if there are players somewhere on the globe who fake pokestops (or not) - nothing is directed at you personally.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they do not know who you are and certainly don't think to themselves that they are insulting your (our?) intelligence when they nominate any real (or fake?) new pokestops.
Even if all previous reports were true, any new report requires equal treatment to all the parties. Anyone who has been charged in the past and paid for his abuse, and now facing any new charges again, still entitled to a "fair trial"... I suggest treating every side with respect, as long as they use clean language and do not hurt anyone on a personal level.
And again I will say, of course you should not get excited about it or any other matter here, after all it is only a game... be happy :-)
@2xTuna-PGO i think you have a great pragmatic approach in the game. I think a lot of folks are very passionate for the game and all sides want what is best. Though some may act in not the correct way.
As I have always said we are a community, we love the game, we act because we care and we all want what is best. I hope everyone has a great day/night and hope we can make tomorrow better and brighter than yesterday