What’s wrong with the reviewers

Very famous cafe, specialized for breakfast and home made cakes. It’s even mentioned on google maps:

Perfect POI by the rules. Why are the reviewers decline it? I just can’t get it. I made over 14k reviews and really don’t understand why they don’t know the rules….

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Comments

  • Maxyme99-PGOMaxyme99-PGO Posts: 954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What rejection reasons did you get?

    Restuaurants and Café are really hard nominations to get accepted, as they were added not that long ago and rules mentioned that they need to be popular/unique to get accepted.

    So submitter must add some nice information about this place: why it's popular, what is the spiecial dish (you mentionied it's specialized in breakfast, but maybe mention also one example of food, like pancakes or something), if there are some nice story about it add it too (if it make's some events, won any awards etc.). Any nice information about this place might help get it accepted.


    You also have to mention something nice about this place in support text too. I saw they have quite a nice site (https://www.kaffeezeit-rieselfeld.de/), that you can add in support text (they mention something about awards here, like "StadtBESTEN Freiburg", and taking part in "Messe Freiburg 2019"). Add information about award in description, and information about other activities in support text, it should help too.


    But even with nice information it can take more than one time to submit restaurant/café to get it accepted. Your nomination really looks like amazing place to get a POI, add some more information about it and it should have good chance of be accepted next time :) Good luck!

  • LordHanni1337-PGOLordHanni1337-PGO Posts: 9 ✭✭

    Thanks for your reply. I will add some information when I send it in again after the feature is restarted.

    the reason was just: „doesn’t match the criteria“.

    I just don’t understand the rejection. Why people don’t read the rules set by Niantic.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LordHanni1337-PGO The rules change constantly and Niantic isn't great about either making them clear or keeping people up to date with changes.

    As @Maxyme99-PGO said, these things are hard to get approved. It's hard for reviewers to differentiate between something really special and a random unremarkable restaurant or cafe, and most of the restaurants/cafes that get submitted are unremarkable. As a submitter you have to "sell" reviewers, to explain to them what makes this particular one stand out from the others.

    I wrote this a while ago. You might find it useful. https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/9890/how-to-submit-things-that-get-accepted

  • mortuus-INGmortuus-ING Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2021

    but everyone can claim " this is a popular shop for locals" and how convince the one who reviews? it seems like this system will not work really..... there needs be more strict guidelines for this... of course send in a random mcdonalds should be insta reject... but if its a shop thats more unique how convince those who will review?

  • auntergoaf-PGOauntergoaf-PGO Posts: 159 ✭✭✭✭

    If the nominator writes specific information about the café in the description, such as awards and popular menus, it will help differentiate the café from others.

  • SiIverLyra-PGOSiIverLyra-PGO Posts: 952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's exactly what's happening in my local community. Literally every description for business nomination says "this is a popular meeting place for locals", and at this point it seems that the overwhelming majority of them get accepted, even if they're utterly generic or a part of large chains.

  • Jtronmoore-PGOJtronmoore-PGO Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You use information that backs it up. Local travel websites like yelp, tour advisor, google reviews. You can also make the restaurant unique by giving info on what they do differently from other places. Its close to doing the same with just about every small business. As an example I had a butcher shop in my local area that I was able to get accepted and in my game. There most unique quality was that there jerky was flown into space by Julie Payette. If I would have wrote instead of the interesting point and just that they serve cuts of beef it would surely get rejected

  • Rodensteiner-PGORodensteiner-PGO Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    everyone in germany know that these things come and go.

    it is like submitting an 1 EUR store in the town center of cologne.

  • CopperChick-PGOCopperChick-PGO Posts: 273 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2021

    I can't read your language so I don't know what you said in your nomination. But I have approved very few restaurants and I will tell you what I look for when reviewing them:

    1) I don't want to do any research to figure out why it is special. If someone just nominates a restaurant and says it is popular with the locals, that is not enough for me. Most submitters are lazy and don't tell reviewers anything special about the place.

    2) I will read the Google reviews of any place that I am reviewing (by the way just about everything is in Google Maps so that doesn't make it valid). I look for things like an out-of-towner saying they were visiting and wow this place is fabulous! I take into consideration only reviews done by people who have a lot of reviews under their belts and I ignore anything where the reviewer only submitted less than 5 reviews overall on Google.

    3) The place can't be a chain - yours may not be a chain I don't know

    4) It helps if something has received an award or was featured on a television show, but that doesn't always guarantee it so don't rely on it. I had a restaurant that was featured on diners, Drive-ins and Dives get rejected even though I stated in the description it was featured on the show.


    I have only submitted 2 restaurants in hundreds of submissions myself - one was approved on the 3rd try and the other is in voting. My suggestion is don't submit one and have the expectation that it will go through. I included what I wrote for the restaurant currently in voting - but I know it is still a long-shot.


    Post edited by CopperChick-PGO on
  • Freakmaster5050-PGOFreakmaster5050-PGO Posts: 60 ✭✭
    edited August 2021

    Honestly you could use the best description ever written and you still will most likely get rejected b/c reviewers seem very opposed to accepting any kind of business.

    I'm currently on nomination #4 for a winery. Never should have been rejected one time, let alone 3x. It’s a tourist destination and gives tours. That right there should have passed it. Nope. They make their own wines. Rejected. It’s the number one place to see according to trip advisor for this town, link provided (supporting info). Still rejected. I’m not sure what else I can say about it. Smh

  • LukeAllStars-INGLukeAllStars-ING Posts: 4,625 Ambassador

    Also, there is a license plate in the main photo. If it is clearly visible, it's also a reason to reject.

  • Rodensteiner-PGORodensteiner-PGO Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    facebook:

    Neu eröffnetes Café im Herzen Rieselfelds. Wir bieten unter anderem Kaffeespezialitäten, Frühstück, frische Waffeln und belegte Brote.

    Newly opened café in the heart of Rieselfeld. Among other things, we offer coffee specialties, breakfast, fresh waffles and sandwiches.
    


  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A few years ago while on a road trip in the American southwest I came across a really excellent cafe. Here are the things that I emphasized in my submission:

    • Eclectic decor that made it feel like someone's living room
    • Tables for working as well as comfortable chairs and sofas for lounging and socializing
    • Excellent coffee roasted in-house, with the roastery visible to all
    • A room that served as a lending library where anyone could take a book to read while they were there, or take it home to read

    The place was clearly set up to be a hangout rather than just to sell coffee, and it achieved that goal. I took the time to help reviewers understand why it was special and what it was like to hang out there. If I'd just said something like "cool local coffee shop" it probably would have been correctly rejected and reviewers would have been right to do so.

  • Rodensteiner-PGORodensteiner-PGO Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    just quoting their facebook entry. ppl will read than when they look it up to review it.

  • CopperChick-PGOCopperChick-PGO Posts: 273 ✭✭✭

    Exactly - you didn't make the reviewer work to find out why it was special - you told them exactly why it was special and why it needed to be in the game.

  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To add a different possibility: It looks like the nomination is the clock, which could easily be unhooked from where it is, and plugged in somewhere else.

  • RyuuVanDraco-PGORyuuVanDraco-PGO Posts: 160 ✭✭✭

    People reject Cafes and Restaurants in germany by default, your submission can be A++, exist for 50 years, have 5 Starts on Google and they still reject it. Maybe 1/20 makes it be sheer luck.

    Tried to submit a restaurant which exists for more than 30 years and got 4,5 Stars on Google 5 times now. Rejected for all kinds of wrong reasons.

  • CipherBlakk-PGOCipherBlakk-PGO Posts: 309 ✭✭✭✭

    But 30 years and 4.5 stars on Google isn't really that remarkable? People give 4.5/5 stars to places like Chick-fil-A and McDonald's. Those stars don't mean anything except in the context of the type of people who go there and the type of food they eat. Just stating the age of a place isn't enough, unless it's clearly a historical or meaningful structure, which 30 years isn't by itself.

    You'd need to back up the submission with saying why the place is important to the community and/or some more objective rating of the food (like Michelin or some community award). Do they have a famous, well-known dish? Do people visit just to sample the dish? Is there a local article about the place? There are some pretty straightforward arguments you could make to help you sell it (still no guarantees because reviewers are reviewers), but Google and a mere 30 years isn't enough to stand on their own.

    I'm all for restaurants and cafes being POIs, but I expect someone to tell me why I shouldn't assume it's like any other mundane restaurant or cafe down the street.

  • Arnecouwelier-PGOArnecouwelier-PGO Posts: 74 ✭✭✭

    Restaurants are always a bit tricky.

    If I can make a suggestion - don't just say it is eligible according to new rules - but state that with the edited nomination guidelines from <DATE> it fits <CRITERION>.

  • exculcator-INGexculcator-ING Posts: 67 ✭✭✭

    They do. They just happen to interpret them differently from you. The default, as far as I am concerned, for a restauant, is "potentially eligible". It is up to you to demonstrate why this restaurant is unusual enough to be a waypoint, when normal restaurants are not. Just being a resturant isn't good enough. Does it specalize in local cuisine, for eample? (This is one of the things that allows a restaurannt to go from potentially eligible to actually eligible. And always keep in mind eligible still does not mean "accept". It means "accept IF (and only if) it meets the other criteria).

  • CipherBlakk-PGOCipherBlakk-PGO Posts: 309 ✭✭✭✭

    That's actually an interesting observation. Rule indoctrination aside, any kind of sports field or indoor/outdoor sport area is accepted by default, yet used for a fraction of the time by a fraction of the people as a restaurant. Social and cultural value is as much part of the criteria as exercise. Are restaurants somehow less remarkable because they're more often used?

    Somehow I feel like that must be the case, that rarity breeds interest. But it does effectively translate into prioritizing exercise over routine social gathering spots. I suppose if I see one or two well-described restaurants in game, that's more practically useful information than being inundated with all the restaurants, if I wanted to visit somewhere interesting. Then again, a sports field in game has no practical real world value for me either. 😂

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    yuck! There should be no default. Reject poor submissions accept good submissions. The standard should not be something out of TripAdvisor. People make this too hard.

    @LordHanni1337-PGO it’s a good nomination. Resubmit but hold off on the upgrade, at least for a while. Try to accumulate at least some local votes. Hopefully the review system update helps with these type of submissions in the very near future.

    Comment is so on point it hurts. We’ll said @Eneeoh-PGO. I’ve frequented many restaurants I’ve found in game, I’ve never gone out and started a baseball game because I found a baseball diamond in game.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Eneeoh-PGO That's an excellent question. To answer it I point you at Niantic's eligibility criteria document. Specifically this part:

    A great place to be social with others

    A favorite gathering place for friends or strangers alike, where you can share a drink or meal, be entertained, or watch public life happen. Or something that draws us together to share an experience in a locally and culturally relevant way.

    • Popular restaurants
    • Favorite coffee shops
    • [and other things, I just included the restaurant/cafe bullet points]

    There's also some overlap with:

    A great place for exploration

    A place you love to venture out to; a destination or a placemark of local interest and importance and which makes our communities unique and shapes its identity. Somewhere or something that tells the unique story about a place, its history, its cultural meaning, or teaches us about the community we live in.

    Admittedly these are mushy rather than hard guidelines, but I think those things provide a pretty good description of the spirit that Niantic is seeking. Reject restaurants and coffee shops by default unless they meet the bar for popular/favorite, or if it's something that meets the exploration guidelines. Why do I personally think this is a useful guideline? I live very close to the Chinatown of a major US city, and there's an area with dozens of small restaurants packed into a few blocks. A few of these are the sort of place I'd take a visitor, and a few are noteworthy/popular. Most are generic and unremarkable, and are nearly indistinguishable from the ones on either side. That exceptional dim sum place that's so popular it has an hour wait on weekends? I'd approve that. A place whose name I can't remember even though I've lived here for 20 years? Nope.

    To parallel that with art, Niantic says "Unique art or architecture". My neighborhood is filled with extraordinary street art created by world-class artists. I will submit each and every one (and honestly, they're almost the only thing I submit) because they are unique works that describe and enhance the culture of the area. By contrast, sports fields and playgrounds are "commodity items" that essentially always qualify, and Niantic hasn't added any qualifiers to them about being unique/popular or otherwise special.

  • CipherBlakk-PGOCipherBlakk-PGO Posts: 309 ✭✭✭✭

    I think it really goes back to the problem of good submissions. I can see what a sports field is. That alone is enough to tell me it's a shoo-in. And I wouldn't want that to change, commodity item or not. For the sake of improving gameplay, I'll accept anything I can squeeze into the rules, especially if it's an auto-win.

    But for restaurants, a lot of submitters are lazy for reasons I don't understand (seems you'd want to make the best case you could to total strangers), and they default to the "favorite local social gathering spot" language, hoping that the criteria buzzwords are enough to carry it. It kind of should be, just based on the rules at face value? You don't know the area after all, as a reviewer, so how can you say? But while I might give the benefit of the doubt for a tiny town with nothing else, I need most reviewers to simply do better. I'm not going out of my way for a restaurant with a poor description. It still needs to be compelling if the photo alone can't tell me why I would want to go, like a sports field or playground might.

    But yeah, it really does give the appearance of a double standard. I think it boils down to obvious exploration value, and if your photo can't show me, you need to tell me, and people are terrible at that.

  • 0X00FF00-ING0X00FF00-ING Posts: 769 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My biggest issue with submitting any "local gems" is the miniscule amount of space available to work with in the Description and the Supporting Text fields. Combined with the fact that so many reviewers WILL NOT EVER open any links you provide?

    Sometimes it ends up coming down to the luck of the draw, the particular set of reviewers that pulled your nomination from the queue. While the only answer for getting an actual gem through is persistence and "resubmit; resubmit; resubmit*", I have to advise from my own personal experience that waiting some weeks, even months!, between resubmissions is more helpful, as you're more likely to get a completely different set of reviewers.


    *the downside to this advice is that the "coal" also gets resubmitted; resubmitted; resubmitted too :-/

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