The nomination wasn't rejected, though. The description was changed by Niantic, according to the other thread.
At the very least, encouraging people to make nominations that do not fit the criteria shouldn't be rewarded with privileged information that ordinary users are not privy to.
This is the original post that was swiftly removed. It was the first instance of said clarification, it was not posted, discussed or commented about elsewhere within the group, no dead horses were beaten.
The post was purposefully plain with no additional text and the poster added no comments whatsoever as to remain as neutral as possible. In no way did the post warrant removal as it was a direct response by Niantic for a question you yourself asked, and informed the group you asked. It was only logical to share the official response as a follow up clarification.
I would also like to point out that you were not busy enough to come back in the forums and ask a follow up question without sharing in the Facebook group that an answer had been provided, not the answer you wanted but a useful answer none the less.
Notes: I initially posted this with the attached image, but who knows when that will get out of approval limbo, so please disregard it once it does show up.
I think this entire thread has matured well past its expiration date. I'm not sure what business OP has in creating more drama over something in another thread that has already wrapped up. This post is clearly about activities on a platform that Wayfarer has no jurisdiction over and does not meet Wayfarer-related criteria for discussion in the Wayfarer forum. Plus, it's just devolving into an opinionated shouting match.
Im sure one of the bosses can stop the bleeding. Similar sentiments were shared the last time this was an issue and Niantic ultimately intervened, the group made changes and got their act semi under control... for a while. But now that a Niantic presence isn't active in their, they are back to their old ways.
The nomination wasn't rejected, though. The description was changed by Niantic, according to the other thread.
Ahh, my apologies - I must have missed that in the six or seven repetitive threads on this same subject on multiple sites. This seems like a weird action for Niantic to take - why not just remove the waypoint immediately and force a resubmit, if they deem the infraction so serious? Why not issue warnings (without additional penalty) to the reviewers who approved the submission as written?
The only reason there have been "repetitive threads" is because posts with photos here are subject to moderation and on Facebook, they kept having comments turned off and deleted.
I understand that reading comprehension can be hard for some, but I did nothing besides explain a portion of Niantic's Terms of Service, and recount a series of events that blatantly breaks Niantic's Terms of Service. If you believe that the comments are "devolving into a shouting match", perhaps you should just stop participating and allow those who can be civil and objective to have their voices be heard. Much of what you have said showed either a clear lack of you reading or understanding the things that I said. Niantic has been active on the platform and issues that happen there do concern them as it effects the Wayfarer platform as a whole. As such, they have acted on issues that have happened there in the past.
Its not about the severity of the nomination. Niantic gets to decide what they do and punishments if any... that was handled and no one has any issues with that. The problem here is the way admins in a group are conducting themselves. I dont know the reasoning behind this and can only speculate but won't. The truth of the matter is clarification posts, for clarifications the admin herself asked for, were deleted the first time they were posted without any explanation, reasoning nor requests. And people who asked why said posts were removed were and are currently still muted, again with no explanations.
Activities on another platform are not against Niantic's Terms of Service, which apply to use of Niantic platforms and services. Niantic cannot regulate what I or anyone else does in our daily lives outside of Niantic's platforms. This is something I already explained, and I'm not sure why anything about this situation requires you to make personal attacks.
You have gone out of your way, entirely unprompted, to call out another user just because they didn't do things on another platform to your personal satisfaction. You've done this in the other thread, and when you didn't get the response you liked, you made your own thread to dig everything up all over again. You personally decided what was and wasn't enough clarification on someone else's behalf, when it's not your decision to make, and you kept trying to force that onto other people.
This thread is clearly your own vendetta over the actions of a Facebook group. It exists solely to collect complaints about that group. If you don't like what's happening on the FB group, leave it. This thread has no point here. It only exists to stir up vitriolic feelings against certain Wayfarer users and Facebook is most definitely nothing that Niantic has jurisdiction over. "FB group admins did this, FB group admins did that." Condolences over your subpar FB experience but what FB admins do is not the problem of Niantic and not something they can control. It doesn't matter how much they talk about Niantic. They're free to do so. It doesn't mean Niantic gets a say in how they conduct themselves. A private person made the group. People joined it. It's nothing more noteworthy than that, and this entire Wayfarer forum exists as a resource for those people. They're not being prevented from finding any information.
This thread is about Facebook. It is not about Wayfarer.
You are incorrect, all groups which have sprung up go against the rules on discussing submissions and in turn influencing other submissions.
it’s clearly something Niantic have decided not to enforce but in the group i help admin we don’t allow people to ask others to give their submission a high rating. While we do allow people to post obvious fakes to warn others we encourage people to only post the most terrible obvious 1*s
Well, that explains why my "please 3* this submission at the least" posts never materialised then.
On a more serious note, another reason for calling out that group is that Niantic Support have been active in there before and admins of that group have claimed to have a direct line of contact with Niantic. So it doesn't look good for Niantic if they aren't posting clarifications and what not in there when misinformation is being shared and promoted.
You are completely wrong, as I stated earlier NIANITIC CAN AND HAS taken action against this very group in the past. They can very well do so once again.
@AisforAndis-ING thanks for the write up. I was not an active wayfarer back in February of 2020 and was not aware to the extent that this group was "guiding" wayfarers. The more time and thought that I put into this situation the more concerning the actions of this group admins becomes to me. Especially when coupled with some comments I am aware of from the original author of the post that started this, and reading some of the comments and view points they shared from the post you linked to from Feb 2020. It lends itself to large scale abuse by influencing how reviewers should interpret submissions, that is counter to what Niantic has indicated.
While you haven't called out the user by name, I think most of the active wayfarers know who you are referencing. I have had my share of back and forth with them, some times in agreement and other times in disagreement. Its frustrating to read that an admin to a group of nearly 10,000 members, believes that they are not viewed as an authoritative voice. That when they speak their opinion to a group that large, that its simply theirs and they have no control over how its perceived. The old Spiderman adage; "With great power, comes great responsibility." comes to mind. They should be taking the time to correct the record for their members but to hear that the admins have conspired to silence the record instead is very troublesome.
Connecting the dots, there was something that this groups admin wrote recently that I think warrants further discussion with what has come to light. The statement was made and I quote, "I think people should reject cafes and restaurants by default.". On its own this comment seems fairly harmless. This is one persons opinion in a sea of other wayfarers. Some might agree, I think the vast majority of us disagree; there should be no category, of eligible locations, where the default is to reject. However, in this context, this group admin has enormous sway over the "guidance" that a large audience of reviewers see's on a far more regular basis. Facebook posts are going to be viewed vastly different and in far greater numbers then a random post in the forums by a Niantic admin. Even if it only influences the review of say 25% of its members, that is more then enough to sink a large portion of legitimate submissions on a regular basis due to misleading and inaccurate "guidance". We are all aware by now that No votes carry more weight then Yes votes.
This could shine a whole new light onto why some categories; aka cafe's and restaurants; are so hard to get through. There is a silent minority working hard against them. They are able to gently put their thumb on the scale, intentional or not.
The real question is what does Niantic do in these situations. I am glad that this is coming up with @NianticDanbocat and @NianticTintino now in the fold. This is certainly one of those situations where Niantic can try to fix the symptom or the affliction. It sounds like Niantic has stuck their nose into that group before, with moderate success. Warnings could be given or temporary bans for influencing. But will that stop the actions of some? In the long term I have my doubts. There is an air of "the OG wayfarers know better then you", from some players, that I do not think is going anywhere.
Two things I think need to happen. Niantic needs to get someone in that group as an admin, if to nothing else makes sure folks are playing nice in the sandbox. Short of that they need to proactively make their own page that they can regulate. FYI this recommendation came from my wife who's a senior marketing director at a fortune 500 and is the admin to a very large industry specific Facebook page for this very reason. The page will by default lend credibility, so its better to actually give it credibility.
The second piece is that guidelines and criteria, really need to be tightened when it comes to certain things. Its a difficult task but there really needs to be an effort to dispel the "old guard" mentality. Things change. The needs of the Niantic game makers change. Dan mentioned that he wants to give his game makers more ingredients. Its time to take that to heart. NeEds MOARz POkeSTops is a good thing folks. You can have Quality and Quantity, but not with a segment of the reviewing population pulling in the wrong direction.
Activities on another platform are not against Niantic's Terms of Service, which apply to use of Niantic platforms and services.
This is false. The Terms of Service are the things to which you must agree to in order to utilize Niantic products. While many of the aspects and potential violations discussed within the Terms of Service directly relate to direct usage of Niantic products, it is still very possible to violate the Terms of Service while not specifically actively engaging with a Niantic product. An example of this is the rule I discussed, where you may not encourage other users violate the Terms of Service found within Section 6. This includes encouragement on and off of the official Wayfarer platform.
Niantic cannot regulate what I or anyone else does in our daily lives outside of Niantic's platforms.
While Niantic cannot directly regulate the content of users off of official Niantic platforms, they can hold users accountable for their actions.
This is something I already explained, and I'm not sure why anything about this situation requires you to make personal attacks.
Nowhere did I make a personal attack against you. In fact you've made quite a few unsubstantiated ones against me. Telling you facts that you don't like or don't agree with does not constitute a personal attack.
You have gone out of your way, entirely unprompted, to call out another user just because they didn't do things on another platform to your personal satisfaction.
I reported coordinated abuse that violates Niantic's terms of service, which I am well within my rights to do. I was prompted to do so because of the repeated offenses of the individuals involved.
You've done this in the other thread, and when you didn't get the response you liked, you made your own thread to dig everything up all over again.
The responses that I posted in the other thread were liked by a Niantic employee and then were specifically commended by the Niantic employee for their accuracy. I'm not sure why you would think I didn't like the response I got, because I loved it.
I made a new thread because the old thread was a criteria clarification, having been moved by Niantic from the general discussion board, to the criteria clarification board. The topic of my thread has well exceeded the criteria clarification.
You personally decided what was and wasn't enough clarification on someone else's behalf, when it's not your decision to make, and you kept trying to force that onto other people.
I never did any such thing. I welcome the repeated clarifications, because every time the clarification is made, there is less and less excuse for people to argue against the criteria. The fact of the matter is that the criteria clarification was unneeded. The criteria was already known, and was blatantly being ignored. The clarification did not provide any new information or changes to existing guidelines.
Your last paragraph is so repetitive and misguided that I'm not going to even attempt to respond to it. It frankly has major @BleedBoss-PGO vibes, and if you take a look at that persons posting history you will find that they were permanently banned for toxicity and actions similar to yours just shortly before you made your account.
Like it or not, the ways in which Wayfarer fan communities conduct themselves is very important to the overall Wayfarer ecosystem, and their actions can have negative ramifications for all submitters and reviewers, and as such is well within the scope of this forum.
Feel free to specify the passage in the Terms that says I'm wrong. Just because Niantic has taken unspecified "action," which hasn't been described so it's hard to judge anything about it, doesn't mean the group is in violation of the Terms of Service. Niantic admins joining a private FB group have no authority except as private individuals, and whatever authority anyone else in the group attributes to them, but there is nothing real or legal about it. There is nothing in the quoted Terms that prohibits talking about the Wayfarer process on external sites. Everything quoted is specific to what occurs on Niantic's services themselves. All rules against influencing other users apply to that influencing occurring within Niantic's services and nowhere else. There is not some bizarre legal ability for Niantic to reach anywhere and everywhere to stop people from doing this outside of Niantic's services. Can you imagine what legal atrocities makers of software would commit if they could control anything you do beyond the direct interaction with their software? Direct interaction is the only thing those Terms have control over. This also goes for "restricting" information. Just because I don't post something on my site about Niantic's rules doesn't mean I'm restricting anything. Access to the information is always there because I'm not blocking actual access to Niantic's website.
The Terms passage that talks about not misappropriating third party content refers to you using third party content from outside Wayfarer inside Wayfarer. It's not about using Wayfarer content outside Wayfarer.
The passage about encouraging other people not to do it refers to the same thing - that you can't do it inside Wayfarer.
The passage about access to/use of Services or Content is about your access to Wayfarer and use of Wayfarer Services. It doesn't apply to people talking about it outside Wayfarer. The FB group isn't and cannot affect this access unless they are doing something to prevent you from accessing the website or Wayfarer interface.
I'm not saying I agree with the FB group or what they're doing. But Niantic has no control over it and complaints about a FB group aren't a Wayfarer topic, nevermind that this whole thing is turning into someone's personal crusade.
@CipherBlakk-PGO I am going to assume that you are not a lawyer..... and likely don't have a lot of experience with terms of service contracts.
The last paragraph of section six in Niantic ToS is pretty far reaching. If you are influencing how users vote in wayfarer using your position as an admin on a Facebook page with 10,000 users, that runs counter to what Niantic is stating.... yeah you are in violation of the ToS. That line about "including without limitation" does a lot of things. Niantic would be 100% within their rights to ban someone for these actions. Not saying it would come to that but they have and we all agreed to give them that authority.
ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO DISRUPT OR INTERFERE WITH THE SERVICES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION UNDERMINING OR MANIPULATING THE LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF ANY SITE OR APP, IS A BREACH OF NIANTIC’S TERMS AND MAY BE A BREACH OR VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAWS.
I dunno there, @Oakes1923-PGO , corporations routinely overreach in their EULAs and TOS.
The passage at the end there looks like it claims that my brother streaming a movie while I’m trying to use WiFi to upload to Wayfarer is criminal behavior.
Gee, I’ve personally posted a ****ton of advice in these forums, on reddit, on Facebook, in private Telegram groups, on Discord.
So because I’m advising people how to vote in Wayfarer, now I’m in violation of Niantic’s ToS?
@admins for these forums, it is well and truly beyond time to shut down this thread. The timing of its posting, such that Niantic staff are off enjoying their weekends, is entirely suspicious to me. It’s as if the OP has a particular bug up their **** and wanted to maximize exposure, knowing in advance that the thread would ultimately be closed and/or deleted.
I don’t see anything else constructive that can come of leaving this thread open, just more directed hostility.
The systematic outside influence on Wayfarer's decisions, as described here, has been evident for several years now and is becoming more and more intense.
I have long been concerned about this kind of behavior.
And some of the groups are clearly organized to abuse.
I love Wayfarer, which is a great system. We should take steps to ensure that this system is not hampered by this kind of activity and that this system does not come to a halt.
Unless you are giving advice that attempts to undermine or manipulate the proper functions of Wayfarer, then no, you are fine.
Also, the original post has embedded images. That means the post was automatically filtered, and was specifically approved by a Niantic employee, and the reason it was "posted" at such an awkward time is because that is when the post was approved by Niantic. Your arguments are baseless.
That Niantic has staff working at odd hours (relative to North America) but who are not our authoritative Giffard/Tintino/Aaron? There is nobody at Niantic working right now that would shut down this filled-with-hostility thread down.
If posted with different timing, it would have already been closed and/or moderated and/or deleted. So yes, you cannot convince me that its posting’s timing was anything but deliberate, especially given how directly pointed the initial attacks were from the outset.
And apparently now I’m being attacked personally, for the minor sin of pointing this out? Gotcha.
Clearly *someone* is working at Niantic over the weekend, because they approved this to be posted. There were numerous posts by at least one Niantic employee in this forum last night and this morning.
Time for the thanks for the lively discussion, I guess.
I don't see anything positive coming out if this thread. Niantic already has everything it needs to decide if they want to do something about the topic here.
Comments
The nomination wasn't rejected, though. The description was changed by Niantic, according to the other thread.
At the very least, encouraging people to make nominations that do not fit the criteria shouldn't be rewarded with privileged information that ordinary users are not privy to.
This is the original post that was swiftly removed. It was the first instance of said clarification, it was not posted, discussed or commented about elsewhere within the group, no dead horses were beaten.
The post was purposefully plain with no additional text and the poster added no comments whatsoever as to remain as neutral as possible. In no way did the post warrant removal as it was a direct response by Niantic for a question you yourself asked, and informed the group you asked. It was only logical to share the official response as a follow up clarification.
I would also like to point out that you were not busy enough to come back in the forums and ask a follow up question without sharing in the Facebook group that an answer had been provided, not the answer you wanted but a useful answer none the less.
Notes: I initially posted this with the attached image, but who knows when that will get out of approval limbo, so please disregard it once it does show up.
I think this entire thread has matured well past its expiration date. I'm not sure what business OP has in creating more drama over something in another thread that has already wrapped up. This post is clearly about activities on a platform that Wayfarer has no jurisdiction over and does not meet Wayfarer-related criteria for discussion in the Wayfarer forum. Plus, it's just devolving into an opinionated shouting match.
@NianticTintino @NianticGiffard @NianticCasey-ING Can we please get this thread closed? It does not serve the Wayfarer community. Thank you.
Im sure one of the bosses can stop the bleeding. Similar sentiments were shared the last time this was an issue and Niantic ultimately intervened, the group made changes and got their act semi under control... for a while. But now that a Niantic presence isn't active in their, they are back to their old ways.
The nomination wasn't rejected, though. The description was changed by Niantic, according to the other thread.
Ahh, my apologies - I must have missed that in the six or seven repetitive threads on this same subject on multiple sites. This seems like a weird action for Niantic to take - why not just remove the waypoint immediately and force a resubmit, if they deem the infraction so serious? Why not issue warnings (without additional penalty) to the reviewers who approved the submission as written?
The only reason there have been "repetitive threads" is because posts with photos here are subject to moderation and on Facebook, they kept having comments turned off and deleted.
I understand that reading comprehension can be hard for some, but I did nothing besides explain a portion of Niantic's Terms of Service, and recount a series of events that blatantly breaks Niantic's Terms of Service. If you believe that the comments are "devolving into a shouting match", perhaps you should just stop participating and allow those who can be civil and objective to have their voices be heard. Much of what you have said showed either a clear lack of you reading or understanding the things that I said. Niantic has been active on the platform and issues that happen there do concern them as it effects the Wayfarer platform as a whole. As such, they have acted on issues that have happened there in the past.
Its not about the severity of the nomination. Niantic gets to decide what they do and punishments if any... that was handled and no one has any issues with that. The problem here is the way admins in a group are conducting themselves. I dont know the reasoning behind this and can only speculate but won't. The truth of the matter is clarification posts, for clarifications the admin herself asked for, were deleted the first time they were posted without any explanation, reasoning nor requests. And people who asked why said posts were removed were and are currently still muted, again with no explanations.
Activities on another platform are not against Niantic's Terms of Service, which apply to use of Niantic platforms and services. Niantic cannot regulate what I or anyone else does in our daily lives outside of Niantic's platforms. This is something I already explained, and I'm not sure why anything about this situation requires you to make personal attacks.
You have gone out of your way, entirely unprompted, to call out another user just because they didn't do things on another platform to your personal satisfaction. You've done this in the other thread, and when you didn't get the response you liked, you made your own thread to dig everything up all over again. You personally decided what was and wasn't enough clarification on someone else's behalf, when it's not your decision to make, and you kept trying to force that onto other people.
This thread is clearly your own vendetta over the actions of a Facebook group. It exists solely to collect complaints about that group. If you don't like what's happening on the FB group, leave it. This thread has no point here. It only exists to stir up vitriolic feelings against certain Wayfarer users and Facebook is most definitely nothing that Niantic has jurisdiction over. "FB group admins did this, FB group admins did that." Condolences over your subpar FB experience but what FB admins do is not the problem of Niantic and not something they can control. It doesn't matter how much they talk about Niantic. They're free to do so. It doesn't mean Niantic gets a say in how they conduct themselves. A private person made the group. People joined it. It's nothing more noteworthy than that, and this entire Wayfarer forum exists as a resource for those people. They're not being prevented from finding any information.
This thread is about Facebook. It is not about Wayfarer.
I'm permabanned for arguing with the main admin in that group, so I think you got off light with a month's muting.
You are incorrect, all groups which have sprung up go against the rules on discussing submissions and in turn influencing other submissions.
it’s clearly something Niantic have decided not to enforce but in the group i help admin we don’t allow people to ask others to give their submission a high rating. While we do allow people to post obvious fakes to warn others we encourage people to only post the most terrible obvious 1*s
Quick, let's sweep it all under the rug before anybody else notices how wrong we are!!!
Well, that explains why my "please 3* this submission at the least" posts never materialised then.
On a more serious note, another reason for calling out that group is that Niantic Support have been active in there before and admins of that group have claimed to have a direct line of contact with Niantic. So it doesn't look good for Niantic if they aren't posting clarifications and what not in there when misinformation is being shared and promoted.
You are completely wrong, as I stated earlier NIANITIC CAN AND HAS taken action against this very group in the past. They can very well do so once again.
@AisforAndis-ING thanks for the write up. I was not an active wayfarer back in February of 2020 and was not aware to the extent that this group was "guiding" wayfarers. The more time and thought that I put into this situation the more concerning the actions of this group admins becomes to me. Especially when coupled with some comments I am aware of from the original author of the post that started this, and reading some of the comments and view points they shared from the post you linked to from Feb 2020. It lends itself to large scale abuse by influencing how reviewers should interpret submissions, that is counter to what Niantic has indicated.
While you haven't called out the user by name, I think most of the active wayfarers know who you are referencing. I have had my share of back and forth with them, some times in agreement and other times in disagreement. Its frustrating to read that an admin to a group of nearly 10,000 members, believes that they are not viewed as an authoritative voice. That when they speak their opinion to a group that large, that its simply theirs and they have no control over how its perceived. The old Spiderman adage; "With great power, comes great responsibility." comes to mind. They should be taking the time to correct the record for their members but to hear that the admins have conspired to silence the record instead is very troublesome.
Connecting the dots, there was something that this groups admin wrote recently that I think warrants further discussion with what has come to light. The statement was made and I quote, "I think people should reject cafes and restaurants by default.". On its own this comment seems fairly harmless. This is one persons opinion in a sea of other wayfarers. Some might agree, I think the vast majority of us disagree; there should be no category, of eligible locations, where the default is to reject. However, in this context, this group admin has enormous sway over the "guidance" that a large audience of reviewers see's on a far more regular basis. Facebook posts are going to be viewed vastly different and in far greater numbers then a random post in the forums by a Niantic admin. Even if it only influences the review of say 25% of its members, that is more then enough to sink a large portion of legitimate submissions on a regular basis due to misleading and inaccurate "guidance". We are all aware by now that No votes carry more weight then Yes votes.
This could shine a whole new light onto why some categories; aka cafe's and restaurants; are so hard to get through. There is a silent minority working hard against them. They are able to gently put their thumb on the scale, intentional or not.
The real question is what does Niantic do in these situations. I am glad that this is coming up with @NianticDanbocat and @NianticTintino now in the fold. This is certainly one of those situations where Niantic can try to fix the symptom or the affliction. It sounds like Niantic has stuck their nose into that group before, with moderate success. Warnings could be given or temporary bans for influencing. But will that stop the actions of some? In the long term I have my doubts. There is an air of "the OG wayfarers know better then you", from some players, that I do not think is going anywhere.
Two things I think need to happen. Niantic needs to get someone in that group as an admin, if to nothing else makes sure folks are playing nice in the sandbox. Short of that they need to proactively make their own page that they can regulate. FYI this recommendation came from my wife who's a senior marketing director at a fortune 500 and is the admin to a very large industry specific Facebook page for this very reason. The page will by default lend credibility, so its better to actually give it credibility.
The second piece is that guidelines and criteria, really need to be tightened when it comes to certain things. Its a difficult task but there really needs to be an effort to dispel the "old guard" mentality. Things change. The needs of the Niantic game makers change. Dan mentioned that he wants to give his game makers more ingredients. Its time to take that to heart. NeEds MOARz POkeSTops is a good thing folks. You can have Quality and Quantity, but not with a segment of the reviewing population pulling in the wrong direction.
Activities on another platform are not against Niantic's Terms of Service, which apply to use of Niantic platforms and services.
This is false. The Terms of Service are the things to which you must agree to in order to utilize Niantic products. While many of the aspects and potential violations discussed within the Terms of Service directly relate to direct usage of Niantic products, it is still very possible to violate the Terms of Service while not specifically actively engaging with a Niantic product. An example of this is the rule I discussed, where you may not encourage other users violate the Terms of Service found within Section 6. This includes encouragement on and off of the official Wayfarer platform.
Niantic cannot regulate what I or anyone else does in our daily lives outside of Niantic's platforms.
While Niantic cannot directly regulate the content of users off of official Niantic platforms, they can hold users accountable for their actions.
This is something I already explained, and I'm not sure why anything about this situation requires you to make personal attacks.
Nowhere did I make a personal attack against you. In fact you've made quite a few unsubstantiated ones against me. Telling you facts that you don't like or don't agree with does not constitute a personal attack.
You have gone out of your way, entirely unprompted, to call out another user just because they didn't do things on another platform to your personal satisfaction.
I reported coordinated abuse that violates Niantic's terms of service, which I am well within my rights to do. I was prompted to do so because of the repeated offenses of the individuals involved.
You've done this in the other thread, and when you didn't get the response you liked, you made your own thread to dig everything up all over again.
The responses that I posted in the other thread were liked by a Niantic employee and then were specifically commended by the Niantic employee for their accuracy. I'm not sure why you would think I didn't like the response I got, because I loved it.
I made a new thread because the old thread was a criteria clarification, having been moved by Niantic from the general discussion board, to the criteria clarification board. The topic of my thread has well exceeded the criteria clarification.
You personally decided what was and wasn't enough clarification on someone else's behalf, when it's not your decision to make, and you kept trying to force that onto other people.
I never did any such thing. I welcome the repeated clarifications, because every time the clarification is made, there is less and less excuse for people to argue against the criteria. The fact of the matter is that the criteria clarification was unneeded. The criteria was already known, and was blatantly being ignored. The clarification did not provide any new information or changes to existing guidelines.
Your last paragraph is so repetitive and misguided that I'm not going to even attempt to respond to it. It frankly has major @BleedBoss-PGO vibes, and if you take a look at that persons posting history you will find that they were permanently banned for toxicity and actions similar to yours just shortly before you made your account.
Like it or not, the ways in which Wayfarer fan communities conduct themselves is very important to the overall Wayfarer ecosystem, and their actions can have negative ramifications for all submitters and reviewers, and as such is well within the scope of this forum.
Feel free to specify the passage in the Terms that says I'm wrong. Just because Niantic has taken unspecified "action," which hasn't been described so it's hard to judge anything about it, doesn't mean the group is in violation of the Terms of Service. Niantic admins joining a private FB group have no authority except as private individuals, and whatever authority anyone else in the group attributes to them, but there is nothing real or legal about it. There is nothing in the quoted Terms that prohibits talking about the Wayfarer process on external sites. Everything quoted is specific to what occurs on Niantic's services themselves. All rules against influencing other users apply to that influencing occurring within Niantic's services and nowhere else. There is not some bizarre legal ability for Niantic to reach anywhere and everywhere to stop people from doing this outside of Niantic's services. Can you imagine what legal atrocities makers of software would commit if they could control anything you do beyond the direct interaction with their software? Direct interaction is the only thing those Terms have control over. This also goes for "restricting" information. Just because I don't post something on my site about Niantic's rules doesn't mean I'm restricting anything. Access to the information is always there because I'm not blocking actual access to Niantic's website.
The Terms passage that talks about not misappropriating third party content refers to you using third party content from outside Wayfarer inside Wayfarer. It's not about using Wayfarer content outside Wayfarer.
The passage about encouraging other people not to do it refers to the same thing - that you can't do it inside Wayfarer.
The passage about access to/use of Services or Content is about your access to Wayfarer and use of Wayfarer Services. It doesn't apply to people talking about it outside Wayfarer. The FB group isn't and cannot affect this access unless they are doing something to prevent you from accessing the website or Wayfarer interface.
I'm not saying I agree with the FB group or what they're doing. But Niantic has no control over it and complaints about a FB group aren't a Wayfarer topic, nevermind that this whole thing is turning into someone's personal crusade.
@CipherBlakk-PGO I am going to assume that you are not a lawyer..... and likely don't have a lot of experience with terms of service contracts.
The last paragraph of section six in Niantic ToS is pretty far reaching. If you are influencing how users vote in wayfarer using your position as an admin on a Facebook page with 10,000 users, that runs counter to what Niantic is stating.... yeah you are in violation of the ToS. That line about "including without limitation" does a lot of things. Niantic would be 100% within their rights to ban someone for these actions. Not saying it would come to that but they have and we all agreed to give them that authority.
ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO DISRUPT OR INTERFERE WITH THE SERVICES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION UNDERMINING OR MANIPULATING THE LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF ANY SITE OR APP, IS A BREACH OF NIANTIC’S TERMS AND MAY BE A BREACH OR VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAWS.
I dunno there, @Oakes1923-PGO , corporations routinely overreach in their EULAs and TOS.
The passage at the end there looks like it claims that my brother streaming a movie while I’m trying to use WiFi to upload to Wayfarer is criminal behavior.
(I’m pretty sure it is not!)
“ANY ATTEMPT”…
Gee, I’ve personally posted a ****ton of advice in these forums, on reddit, on Facebook, in private Telegram groups, on Discord.
So because I’m advising people how to vote in Wayfarer, now I’m in violation of Niantic’s ToS?
@admins for these forums, it is well and truly beyond time to shut down this thread. The timing of its posting, such that Niantic staff are off enjoying their weekends, is entirely suspicious to me. It’s as if the OP has a particular bug up their **** and wanted to maximize exposure, knowing in advance that the thread would ultimately be closed and/or deleted.
I don’t see anything else constructive that can come of leaving this thread open, just more directed hostility.
I am Not Sure Anymore WHO is the Bad Guy and WHO the good Guy. @NianticGiffard calling
The systematic outside influence on Wayfarer's decisions, as described here, has been evident for several years now and is becoming more and more intense.
I have long been concerned about this kind of behavior.
And some of the groups are clearly organized to abuse.
I love Wayfarer, which is a great system. We should take steps to ensure that this system is not hampered by this kind of activity and that this system does not come to a halt.
Unless you are giving advice that attempts to undermine or manipulate the proper functions of Wayfarer, then no, you are fine.
Also, the original post has embedded images. That means the post was automatically filtered, and was specifically approved by a Niantic employee, and the reason it was "posted" at such an awkward time is because that is when the post was approved by Niantic. Your arguments are baseless.
You’re missing the verbiage “disrupt or interfere”. Don’t use half a quote to distort context. Keep it civil and within context.
That Niantic has staff working at odd hours (relative to North America) but who are not our authoritative Giffard/Tintino/Aaron? There is nobody at Niantic working right now that would shut down this filled-with-hostility thread down.
If posted with different timing, it would have already been closed and/or moderated and/or deleted. So yes, you cannot convince me that its posting’s timing was anything but deliberate, especially given how directly pointed the initial attacks were from the outset.
And apparently now I’m being attacked personally, for the minor sin of pointing this out? Gotcha.
No one is "attacking you personally". Multiple people stating that you are incorrect are not personal attacks, just observations.
Clearly *someone* is working at Niantic over the weekend, because they approved this to be posted. There were numerous posts by at least one Niantic employee in this forum last night and this morning.
Time for the thanks for the lively discussion, I guess.
I don't see anything positive coming out if this thread. Niantic already has everything it needs to decide if they want to do something about the topic here.
When somebody is telling me to “be civil” it implies that I had not been. I call that “an attack”. You don’t?
Not really, no.
Especially since multiple words in your post had to be censored because you weren't using civil language.