You open up a map that shows your location on a sattelite view (Like the Google Travel app) and screenshot where the pin is. Then when later submitting you try your best to match the visible features when placing the pin. It would arguably be better to be allowed to enter coordinates but here we are...
The other issue with allowing this feature, is that @NianticTintino is a massive increase in junk. On top of the massive amount of junk we already have coming through, or even end up in game. Seriously, @NianticTintino you need to stop the roll out of this feature!
The primary source of massive increases in junk we've seen lately is from the Foursquare dump, not Pokemon Go players. With the Submitter Test coming up, better education should make for better overall quality in the network. This feature shouldn't be held back because in the past, on different servers, under different criteria, using a different review system...lots of coal went through. It should, though, be rolled out to Ingress players simultaneously. Some of the most dedicated, long-time, high-volume reviewers and submitters are Ingress players. Well, maybe they should fix the Portal Not Appearing glitch first.
Hi, I'm back! I'll try to hit up a few posts where I'm tagged. Apologies in advance as I may miss a few across the different threads.
@PkmnTrainerJ-ING - Yes, Brian (Ingress Producer) and I are talking about it for Ingress :) I'll look into whether Ingress wants to bring a few other things into parity with PGO (and in the future with other games) in terms of submission distance limits etc. cc @HankWolfman-PGO, per your comment.
@cyndiepooh-ING - agree, I am looking into whether we can change the language the PGO nomination flow to make it more clear to the submitter what database it's being submitted to.
@Grogyan-ING - not sure where you're getting your insight that PGO does not need it, but I do agree it'd be good to have in Ingress too. Brian and I are already talking about it. @PkmnTrainerJ-ING - it's not actually coming to PGO because $$. It's because Ingress had some other critical infrastructure work that pushed-off any Wayfarer feature. Each game has it's own to-do list and I have to coordinate the Wayfarer bits wherever/whenever I can :)
@Syksyvaara-ING - that's a really good question. I suppose if you're actually at that location you'd be under the tree canopy and will have some IRL info that will help you. Your device's GPS should give you the error ring around your predicted location which is a good start. Of course, GPS is not perfect technology either (like in cities) and if there are also not enough cellular or wifi receivers around, even less precise. Best is to just make a guess and hopefully your local community will help you out during the reviews.
@Stephyypooke-ING - upload later feature is independent of any additional visual cues on the map. But I will take this away as feedback. @NianticTintino let's jot his down in our feature request list!
General note on your GPS discussion: Your smart phone is likely using a bunch of signals, where possible. So, it is entirely dependent on (A) your device's receiver strength (B) the GPS (or globally the GNSS) visibility, also called your Sky View factor (C) the level of signal interference (in cities it is worse when you have lots of glass, metal and concrete buildings) (D) other assisting networks nearby you such as wi-fi or cell tower networks that let your phone further triangulate and (E) other software or hardware issues on your device. So let's not argue to much about who is right/wrong in your experiences playing either game in urban vs rural areas. There are so many factors here to consider, and every experience is totally valid.
@PkmnTrainerJ-ING - Yes, Brian (Ingress Producer) and I are talking about it for Ingress :) I'll look into whether Ingress wants to bring a few other things into parity with PGO (and in the future with other games) in terms of submission distance limits etc. cc @HankWolfman-PGO, per your comment.
I hope this doesn't mean reducing the Ingress submission distance limit. 😬
It's really refreshing seeing proper updates, no matter how small, being shared with the greater community. Thank you!
This is the type of communication we hunger for in the Ingress forums, especially as many of us are paying customers (through the CORE Subscription) and we ultimately get nothing.
The distance limit for everyone but me should be very small, while my limit should be none. This is fair because of my own internal logical process which I will not explain but trust me on it. /s
But TBH a lot of people dedicated to abuse are going to do things like spoof, fake photos, fake photospheres, collude with other players etc (colluding is the big one). If internal investigations have shown that reducing the submission distance limit is going to help curb abuse, (even though it would make submissions harder for me) then I guess I shouldn't complain But if this is being done to help curb abuse, I'd argue there are better ways to do it that can't be gotten around by 3rd party apps. (Something putting noms behind a test and tying # of noms you can make to agreements is an example that's tossed around a lot here.)
It is so great to have @NianticDanbocat coming back into this thread to help us.
I am a PoGo submitter and super excited to have this feature coming. I play in urban, suburban, and rural areas. I recognize how many woefully underrepresented rural locations are in-game, and have a long list of really wonderful rural nominations I'd like to submit.
I was hoping that the "Upload Later" feature would work like Google Streetmaps... that I could create my submission at its actual location, using satellite data to tag its coordinates there and then, and simply wait to upload once I'm back on WiFi. If that's not the case, how on Earth do I keep track of the location of the places I want to submit? I have never seen any kind of location coordinates listed in Pokemon Go.
@NianticDanbocat The reality of submission abuse is that abusive submissions are generally attempts to get something accepted at a place a person frequents (their home, job, or primary place of play). Because of this, reducing submission distance would be highly ineffective, especially considering PoGo players now have access to submitting photos from their gallery.
If you want to curb abuse, let's start seeing actual affective punishments for those caught participating in abuse so that we stop seeing immdiate recidivism amongst those who have already been punished.
Also you could reduce the distance people can move stops during review. ~2 miles is WAY WAY WAY too far.
@NianticDanbocat first thank you for diving straight back in - it’s the sort of natural interaction and update I really appreciate and sets a nice tone for this forum.
As others are saying, cheaters will cheat no matter what.
It is frustrating having rules imposed that are trying to curb what they do, which they sidestep but make things tricker for others.
Normally the distance in Ingress is ok for me for trips out to nearby rural communities. But I have been caught out on occasions and ended up not being able to submit. Like @Purptacular-PGO I was hoping that an upload later feature would work like doing my photospheres. I would create the location and photos with basic text in the field and upload at home, and edit text (perhaps after research) in wayfarer and the distance wouldn’t matter. This would help not only with poor signals but also if the weather isn’t great. It is also likely that I am having to spend time on a photosphere. The locations where this would be useful are very likely to be rural so highly unlikely to be in the sort of place where there is misuse.
it may be technically difficult but is there any way that when you press submit, instead of timing out it gives an upload later option. So you have tried but can’t submit.
@NianticDanbocat I really appreciate that you are working on ways to curb abuse - it's much needed - but I don't think reducing the distance limit is the right way, when I reflect on how abuse cases have typically played out. I'll elaborate a bit on my thoughts.
Most ways people try to abuse submissions, as @AisforAndis-ING mentioned above, involves people who want a new Wayspot near a place they frequent - usually their home, their work, etc. Because of this, reducing the submission distance will not be effective because they're on-site very often anyway, usually within only some meters of where they want their Wayspot to be, several times per week if not every day. Abusers will have no benefit of submitting things that are 25, 10 km or even 100 meters away; I believe most, if not all of them are on-site when they nominate.
On the other hand, remote submissions are a massive quality of live improvement for legitimate submitters. The types of nominations I submit myself, for example, are trail markers, informational signs along walking trails, historical structures/ruins that show centuries-old cultural history, etc., and many of these are quite deep into the wilderness. When I have a week of good weather, I usually go hiking and take dozens of high quality photos in good lighting, and make myself a backlog of nominations I can submit when the weather isn't as good later. Being able to submit these 25 km away means I don't have to drive back to the trails, perhaps through expensive road tolls, or go hiking in heavy rain, just to submit these candidates - these high quality photos often also end up on the featured wayspots showcase, so it does appear that it's appreciated.
By far the most abused feature in-game is location edits, and I believe these should be curbed in terms of how far away you can submit them. Just recently there was a case that popped up in our national XFAC Ingress chat; someone had moved a hard-to-reach lighthouse a few meters, dropping all links to it in Ingress, and angering many players especially on the Enlightened team (for disclosure, I myself am on Resistance). There should be no reason to submit a location edit unless you're on-site and can testify first-hand that the current location is inaccurate.
The nomination submission distance is 25 km in Ingress and 10 km (I believe?) in Pokémon Go. I do not believe this should be reduced. Proper remote submissions in Pokémon Go is pretty new (allowing existing photos from the camera roll), so I can't make any conclusions on whether the 10 km limit is reasonable, but I believe that after some time of evaluation, it should be considered whether increasing this to 25 km would be a good idea or not for Pokémon Go users as well.
The edit submission distance is 50 km in Ingress and interaction circle range in Pokémon Go. This should be reduced in Ingress to match Pokémon Go to curb link/field dropping abuse in Ingress.
The title/description edits distance is 100 km in Ingress and I believe interaction circle range in Pokémon Go. I don't have to be near a Wayspot to tell that a title is incorrect or has a poor description. I have on several occasions discovered Wayspots with mildly horrifying typos, or very lacking titles or descriptions, when scrolling in in-game comms, and being able to fix this without having to visit the Wayspot in question is something I believe Pokémon Go users should also be able to do.
And lastly - as @AisforAndis-ING pointed out - the distance you can move a wayspot in review should be drastically reduced. It should be enough to move a potential Wayspot e.g. off the field of play of a large sports field, say 100 meters. But the current 3 km range or whatever it is right now, has been the core feature that has enabled the continued abuse in e.g. St. Cloud to take place. If a wayspot is truly more than 100 meters off, then it should be rejected for mismatched location, and not be allowed to be moved miles off the proposed location.
Agreed. I’d like the Ingress distance to stay as is.
Also excited that “other games” are noted. Which game is next on the Wayfarer list @NianticDanbocat or is that a secret? 🤫
Thinking more on this, with Pokémon GO getting the extra distance that they whined for, and Ingress being shafted a few times, it does seem like it’s almost intentional to annoy the Ingress player base at this point, and only give any shiny new toys and features to Pokémon GO.
Often when changes are done in an attempt to "curb abuse", implementations are very heavy-handed and there is a lot of collateral damage. For example, in June last year, location edits were completely disabled so the Wayfarer team could figure out how to go forward with this, which they have by re-implementing location edits with a limit of 10m. Since then, the limit has softly been risen to roughly 25m, but it seems there is a difference if you're editing the location while in range of the wayspot instead of doing so remotely (i.e. via a portal key or something you can see on the in-game map in the distance).
There's a great discussion post which people talk about their experiences about finding an excellent Wayspot in their adventures. Often, Wayfinders will take the necessary photos, and then go back home to do some research, have Intel handy and then do the submission. Some people have also said that they would often submit at the spot via PoGo, but get caught out when they realise it's already a duplicate of something because they didn't check in Intel beforehand.
For Ingress, 25km is ample. It would allow me to nominate wayspots in a large radius, stretching from Springwood to West Ryde, from Wilberforce to Catherine Field. Looking at my nominations, the majority of what I've nominated has always been between 15-25km away from home, especially around the Liverpool and Parramatta areas. Sometimes, I'll even travel to Parramatta, Cabramatta, Lidcombe or the Sydney CBD to cover range all across Sydney, but I would almost always have a laptop ready to prepare nominations and submit. Here's a map of Sydney.
The three circles represent 25km submission radiuses at each "submission hub" where I prepare, plan, and submit nominations (except Parramatta as the confluence, which has range of pretty much most things). Each of the submission hubs are along the Western Railway line bar Cabramatta with a slight detour which nicely covers the range needed to submit my nominations. Similar to @oscarc1-ING, I also submit all around the Sydney Metropolitan area. For all nominations, he'd take all nomination photos separately and then go through the process, whether reachable from home or in another area nearby. While I'm probably not submitting as regionally as he is, I still do plentiful nominations around Sydney. Places that are slightly out of reach (such as Kurrajong in the top-left corner) or Arcadia can be solved with a quick drive up to maybe Marsden Park, and southwards of places such as Camden and Picton also easily addressable with a nice roadtrip to Edmondson Park.
Above is the radius and the amount of submission hubs I would need to establish and head to to cover the main areas of Sydney. Changing the Ingress radius to 10km just like PoGo will probably **** off my motivation to explore the Sydney metropolitan area and submit in Wayfarer. I am committed to exploring new places and finding hidden gems, discovering suburbs like Wiley Park and Milperra having very minimal existing wayspots in the community, but I almost never submit on the spot (unless I was way away from home such as the Mayfield Gardens or Canberra). Take the photos first (such as a close-up of the wayspot, supporting photo, the wayspot actual), submit later with research and a computer to manage them properly (because typing on phones always leads to typos and awful autocorrect). And especially when the apps crash on you or fail to upload the photos because it keeps on timing out. That is Australian internet.
But the main reason for Ingress nominations and retaining the 25km radius (or maybe even proposing expanding it to a select group of Wayfinders) is because of the adventurous nature of agents. Those that venture to mountaintops, to the paths and roads less travelled, to places where often... there is very little reception to successfully nominate a potential wayspot at somewhere like a mountain summit or a deep valley which is why the Redacted scanner worked so well for us. You could submit a nomination and you would not get stuck on the loading screen while Prime attempts to upload the photo and submit the nominations. Nominate a couple of things and only when the game is in a reliable connection and speed, it uploads and successfully submits the nomination. That is why the "Upload Later" feature is so important, so we can nominate something as we see it and upload it once we're back to civilisation. Not saying that Ingress players exclusively do this, there is also a PoGo player in Canberra who will diligently take gyms at mountaintops and get them to gold because they're the easiest to do so. Well... not really, they mostly get spoofed down anyway.
Restricting the distance that people can nominate wayspots would hurt bigtime. It's ridiculously easy for spoofers from India to nominate abusive stuff in the Sydney CBD. It will probably cause more people to circumvent this using 3rd party apps and then nominate with a faked location. If I were desperate to submit new wayspots (especially during a strict lockdown), maybe I would entertain the thought if the submission radius was reduced. But I would rather just be crushed by disappointment and leave the program altogether.
There has to be a better solution. Maybe scale the distances according to contributions on Wayfarer? See whether the Wayfinder has a good track record of nominations, the edits they make, are they renowned and reputable?
But the main reason for Ingress nominations and retaining the 25km radius (or maybe even proposing expanding it to a select group of Wayfinders) is because of the adventurous nature of agents.
I suspect that PGO app crashing 100% time during picture taking on a lot of devices was the major reason to enable the open existing pictures.
I no longer need to carry an old phone for nominations. The change does make it easier to sit at home and submit within the distance limits, that will be the cost of this low-tech bug fix of camera app crashing the game.
My Andriod S9 and S21 crash 100%. Have to go with an S7 to be reliable before this update in the game.
Thanks for responding. Glad to hear that discussions are in place with Brian Rose to bring Ingress on parity with this feature.
Sorry for the text wall.
Here I go restating what I have said, again.
Pgo
Transformers Heavy Metal
Pikmin
Harry Potter Wizards Unite
Catan World Explorers
1) Are all urban centric games.
2) all the above games use Niantic Lightship for client and server. Niantic Lightship as a fact is so bloated and slow that playing these games on a typical 3G connection isn't possible.
2a) John Hanke likes to play down the bloat by blaming mobile infrastructure. And blah blah blah, 5G blah blah. Is frankly ignoring, and border line arrogant. Here's the the, the fact of the matter is that a very large proportion of players do NOT HAVE 5G. In fact most cities that have "5G" isn't actually 5G at all, marketing hype for essentially 4G+, which is pretty fast in ideal scenarios. Less than half of the world barely has 4G. Yet repeatedly the Lightship Team are forcing features onto games that mobile infrastructure cannot handle, meaning that the end user on either very modern hardware, or even 5yr old mobiles have a very very poor experience, if playable at all!
Pokémon GO frankly eats up too much data, so much so it is unplayable in rural areas.
Until the Lightship API team, and the pokemon go developers make the API and PGO 4 times more efficient, the reasoning for pushing forth remote uploading of wayspots needs to not be implemented.
The limitations of uploading on the spot should be considered as a "low pass filter" of adequate mobile signal for reasonable playability of the games listed above.
3) The other side of the sword is this, we WARNED you about the fact that when pgo players were included into Wayspot reviewing that, junk wayspots would be nominated, and go through the system was NOT adhered. Now we constantly get "Gimmie pokemon gym at home".
It is still the case now, but you want to allow for even worse junk to be nominated, and likely go through the system.
Most pokemon go reviewers are good at reviewing, however the fact is that a substantial group of players are still gaming the Wayfarer system.
And you're letting them!
If you are still moving forward with this remote upload feature for pokemon go, a 1km limit is more than adequate, because again, for the games listed above, they are all urban centric.
4) If a Pogo player has poor data to upload on the spot, then they should be recommended to find a way to boost their mobile data signal, much in the same way us Ingress players have had to for years.
Be it a portable hotspot + yagi antenna, or globe sat.
Why? Again, Niantic Lightship has grown so much it is too bloated that the comm layer cannot reasonably considered as acceptable on anything but a strong 4G signal, which again, repeating, much of the world doesn't have good 4G coverage.
My issues are junk. Horrendous amounts of junk wayspots.
Will we be able to have more Waypoints on "nominate later" then the currently available nominations we have? So 7 max? Imo we should get as many as we want, being only restricted as of when we can actually upload them.
I currently have 0 nomination available and can't put anything on "nominate later" but that might be unintentional (i hope).
Hoped for a way to nominate more than 7 Waypoints when being on hiking trips but i guess Niantic doesn't want players to nominate a lot of Waypoints on remote or rual areas... or dedicated Wayfarers to nominate a lot of Waypoints in general...
Guess the Wayfarer app will only get more fake nomination with that new feature then... Even more than there are already...
I play it quite a lot and that’s where I nominated stuff before it came to Pokémon GO. I enjoy Ingress now, as it’s own thing, but I did initially start it for Pokémon GO stuff. Now I don’t care if my nominations don’t appear in GO
Currently the only way to get more nominations is to level up in other apps. Not my fault that that’s the only solution from Niantic. 🤷
I don't get you. You aren't postponing a nomination, you are simply postponing the upload until you get to a stronger single or are on WiFi. I don't understand why you think an "upload later" should allow you more nomination slots.
Yes, it will use the slot when you "submit" it, even if you selected to upload it later. As for when you get the slot back, I would presume it is 13 days from the time you finish uploading the nomination. So that will incentivize you not to keep the nomination stored in memory for too long.
Comments
You open up a map that shows your location on a sattelite view (Like the Google Travel app) and screenshot where the pin is. Then when later submitting you try your best to match the visible features when placing the pin. It would arguably be better to be allowed to enter coordinates but here we are...
The other issue with allowing this feature, is that @NianticTintino is a massive increase in junk. On top of the massive amount of junk we already have coming through, or even end up in game. Seriously, @NianticTintino you need to stop the roll out of this feature!
The primary source of massive increases in junk we've seen lately is from the Foursquare dump, not Pokemon Go players. With the Submitter Test coming up, better education should make for better overall quality in the network. This feature shouldn't be held back because in the past, on different servers, under different criteria, using a different review system...lots of coal went through. It should, though, be rolled out to Ingress players simultaneously. Some of the most dedicated, long-time, high-volume reviewers and submitters are Ingress players. Well, maybe they should fix the Portal Not Appearing glitch first.
Hi, I'm back! I'll try to hit up a few posts where I'm tagged. Apologies in advance as I may miss a few across the different threads.
@PkmnTrainerJ-ING - Yes, Brian (Ingress Producer) and I are talking about it for Ingress :) I'll look into whether Ingress wants to bring a few other things into parity with PGO (and in the future with other games) in terms of submission distance limits etc. cc @HankWolfman-PGO, per your comment.
@flatmatt-PGO - enjoy your last summer vacay!
@cyndiepooh-ING - agree, I am looking into whether we can change the language the PGO nomination flow to make it more clear to the submitter what database it's being submitted to.
@Grogyan-ING - not sure where you're getting your insight that PGO does not need it, but I do agree it'd be good to have in Ingress too. Brian and I are already talking about it. @PkmnTrainerJ-ING - it's not actually coming to PGO because $$. It's because Ingress had some other critical infrastructure work that pushed-off any Wayfarer feature. Each game has it's own to-do list and I have to coordinate the Wayfarer bits wherever/whenever I can :)
@Syksyvaara-ING - that's a really good question. I suppose if you're actually at that location you'd be under the tree canopy and will have some IRL info that will help you. Your device's GPS should give you the error ring around your predicted location which is a good start. Of course, GPS is not perfect technology either (like in cities) and if there are also not enough cellular or wifi receivers around, even less precise. Best is to just make a guess and hopefully your local community will help you out during the reviews.
@Stephyypooke-ING - upload later feature is independent of any additional visual cues on the map. But I will take this away as feedback. @NianticTintino let's jot his down in our feature request list!
General note on your GPS discussion: Your smart phone is likely using a bunch of signals, where possible. So, it is entirely dependent on (A) your device's receiver strength (B) the GPS (or globally the GNSS) visibility, also called your Sky View factor (C) the level of signal interference (in cities it is worse when you have lots of glass, metal and concrete buildings) (D) other assisting networks nearby you such as wi-fi or cell tower networks that let your phone further triangulate and (E) other software or hardware issues on your device. So let's not argue to much about who is right/wrong in your experiences playing either game in urban vs rural areas. There are so many factors here to consider, and every experience is totally valid.
bedankt!
@PkmnTrainerJ-ING - Yes, Brian (Ingress Producer) and I are talking about it for Ingress :) I'll look into whether Ingress wants to bring a few other things into parity with PGO (and in the future with other games) in terms of submission distance limits etc. cc @HankWolfman-PGO, per your comment.
I hope this doesn't mean reducing the Ingress submission distance limit. 😬
@GearGlider-PGO - LOL, so what do you think the distance limit should be? If in theory you should be nearby, but also want to curb abuse...
It's really refreshing seeing proper updates, no matter how small, being shared with the greater community. Thank you!
This is the type of communication we hunger for in the Ingress forums, especially as many of us are paying customers (through the CORE Subscription) and we ultimately get nothing.
Keep up the great work!
The distance limit for everyone but me should be very small, while my limit should be none. This is fair because of my own internal logical process which I will not explain but trust me on it. /s
But TBH a lot of people dedicated to abuse are going to do things like spoof, fake photos, fake photospheres, collude with other players etc (colluding is the big one). If internal investigations have shown that reducing the submission distance limit is going to help curb abuse, (even though it would make submissions harder for me) then I guess I shouldn't complain But if this is being done to help curb abuse, I'd argue there are better ways to do it that can't be gotten around by 3rd party apps. (Something putting noms behind a test and tying # of noms you can make to agreements is an example that's tossed around a lot here.)
It is so great to have @NianticDanbocat coming back into this thread to help us.
I am a PoGo submitter and super excited to have this feature coming. I play in urban, suburban, and rural areas. I recognize how many woefully underrepresented rural locations are in-game, and have a long list of really wonderful rural nominations I'd like to submit.
I was hoping that the "Upload Later" feature would work like Google Streetmaps... that I could create my submission at its actual location, using satellite data to tag its coordinates there and then, and simply wait to upload once I'm back on WiFi. If that's not the case, how on Earth do I keep track of the location of the places I want to submit? I have never seen any kind of location coordinates listed in Pokemon Go.
@NianticDanbocat The reality of submission abuse is that abusive submissions are generally attempts to get something accepted at a place a person frequents (their home, job, or primary place of play). Because of this, reducing submission distance would be highly ineffective, especially considering PoGo players now have access to submitting photos from their gallery.
If you want to curb abuse, let's start seeing actual affective punishments for those caught participating in abuse so that we stop seeing immdiate recidivism amongst those who have already been punished.
Also you could reduce the distance people can move stops during review. ~2 miles is WAY WAY WAY too far.
@NianticDanbocat first thank you for diving straight back in - it’s the sort of natural interaction and update I really appreciate and sets a nice tone for this forum.
As others are saying, cheaters will cheat no matter what.
It is frustrating having rules imposed that are trying to curb what they do, which they sidestep but make things tricker for others.
Normally the distance in Ingress is ok for me for trips out to nearby rural communities. But I have been caught out on occasions and ended up not being able to submit. Like @Purptacular-PGO I was hoping that an upload later feature would work like doing my photospheres. I would create the location and photos with basic text in the field and upload at home, and edit text (perhaps after research) in wayfarer and the distance wouldn’t matter. This would help not only with poor signals but also if the weather isn’t great. It is also likely that I am having to spend time on a photosphere. The locations where this would be useful are very likely to be rural so highly unlikely to be in the sort of place where there is misuse.
it may be technically difficult but is there any way that when you press submit, instead of timing out it gives an upload later option. So you have tried but can’t submit.
@NianticDanbocat I really appreciate that you are working on ways to curb abuse - it's much needed - but I don't think reducing the distance limit is the right way, when I reflect on how abuse cases have typically played out. I'll elaborate a bit on my thoughts.
Most ways people try to abuse submissions, as @AisforAndis-ING mentioned above, involves people who want a new Wayspot near a place they frequent - usually their home, their work, etc. Because of this, reducing the submission distance will not be effective because they're on-site very often anyway, usually within only some meters of where they want their Wayspot to be, several times per week if not every day. Abusers will have no benefit of submitting things that are 25, 10 km or even 100 meters away; I believe most, if not all of them are on-site when they nominate.
On the other hand, remote submissions are a massive quality of live improvement for legitimate submitters. The types of nominations I submit myself, for example, are trail markers, informational signs along walking trails, historical structures/ruins that show centuries-old cultural history, etc., and many of these are quite deep into the wilderness. When I have a week of good weather, I usually go hiking and take dozens of high quality photos in good lighting, and make myself a backlog of nominations I can submit when the weather isn't as good later. Being able to submit these 25 km away means I don't have to drive back to the trails, perhaps through expensive road tolls, or go hiking in heavy rain, just to submit these candidates - these high quality photos often also end up on the featured wayspots showcase, so it does appear that it's appreciated.
By far the most abused feature in-game is location edits, and I believe these should be curbed in terms of how far away you can submit them. Just recently there was a case that popped up in our national XFAC Ingress chat; someone had moved a hard-to-reach lighthouse a few meters, dropping all links to it in Ingress, and angering many players especially on the Enlightened team (for disclosure, I myself am on Resistance). There should be no reason to submit a location edit unless you're on-site and can testify first-hand that the current location is inaccurate.
And lastly - as @AisforAndis-ING pointed out - the distance you can move a wayspot in review should be drastically reduced. It should be enough to move a potential Wayspot e.g. off the field of play of a large sports field, say 100 meters. But the current 3 km range or whatever it is right now, has been the core feature that has enabled the continued abuse in e.g. St. Cloud to take place. If a wayspot is truly more than 100 meters off, then it should be rejected for mismatched location, and not be allowed to be moved miles off the proposed location.
Agreed. I’d like the Ingress distance to stay as is.
Also excited that “other games” are noted. Which game is next on the Wayfarer list @NianticDanbocat or is that a secret? 🤫
Thinking more on this, with Pokémon GO getting the extra distance that they whined for, and Ingress being shafted a few times, it does seem like it’s almost intentional to annoy the Ingress player base at this point, and only give any shiny new toys and features to Pokémon GO.
Often when changes are done in an attempt to "curb abuse", implementations are very heavy-handed and there is a lot of collateral damage. For example, in June last year, location edits were completely disabled so the Wayfarer team could figure out how to go forward with this, which they have by re-implementing location edits with a limit of 10m. Since then, the limit has softly been risen to roughly 25m, but it seems there is a difference if you're editing the location while in range of the wayspot instead of doing so remotely (i.e. via a portal key or something you can see on the in-game map in the distance).
There's a great discussion post which people talk about their experiences about finding an excellent Wayspot in their adventures. Often, Wayfinders will take the necessary photos, and then go back home to do some research, have Intel handy and then do the submission. Some people have also said that they would often submit at the spot via PoGo, but get caught out when they realise it's already a duplicate of something because they didn't check in Intel beforehand.
For Ingress, 25km is ample. It would allow me to nominate wayspots in a large radius, stretching from Springwood to West Ryde, from Wilberforce to Catherine Field. Looking at my nominations, the majority of what I've nominated has always been between 15-25km away from home, especially around the Liverpool and Parramatta areas. Sometimes, I'll even travel to Parramatta, Cabramatta, Lidcombe or the Sydney CBD to cover range all across Sydney, but I would almost always have a laptop ready to prepare nominations and submit. Here's a map of Sydney.
The three circles represent 25km submission radiuses at each "submission hub" where I prepare, plan, and submit nominations (except Parramatta as the confluence, which has range of pretty much most things). Each of the submission hubs are along the Western Railway line bar Cabramatta with a slight detour which nicely covers the range needed to submit my nominations. Similar to @oscarc1-ING, I also submit all around the Sydney Metropolitan area. For all nominations, he'd take all nomination photos separately and then go through the process, whether reachable from home or in another area nearby. While I'm probably not submitting as regionally as he is, I still do plentiful nominations around Sydney. Places that are slightly out of reach (such as Kurrajong in the top-left corner) or Arcadia can be solved with a quick drive up to maybe Marsden Park, and southwards of places such as Camden and Picton also easily addressable with a nice roadtrip to Edmondson Park.
Above is the radius and the amount of submission hubs I would need to establish and head to to cover the main areas of Sydney. Changing the Ingress radius to 10km just like PoGo will probably **** off my motivation to explore the Sydney metropolitan area and submit in Wayfarer. I am committed to exploring new places and finding hidden gems, discovering suburbs like Wiley Park and Milperra having very minimal existing wayspots in the community, but I almost never submit on the spot (unless I was way away from home such as the Mayfield Gardens or Canberra). Take the photos first (such as a close-up of the wayspot, supporting photo, the wayspot actual), submit later with research and a computer to manage them properly (because typing on phones always leads to typos and awful autocorrect). And especially when the apps crash on you or fail to upload the photos because it keeps on timing out. That is Australian internet.
But the main reason for Ingress nominations and retaining the 25km radius (or maybe even proposing expanding it to a select group of Wayfinders) is because of the adventurous nature of agents. Those that venture to mountaintops, to the paths and roads less travelled, to places where often... there is very little reception to successfully nominate a potential wayspot at somewhere like a mountain summit or a deep valley which is why the Redacted scanner worked so well for us. You could submit a nomination and you would not get stuck on the loading screen while Prime attempts to upload the photo and submit the nominations. Nominate a couple of things and only when the game is in a reliable connection and speed, it uploads and successfully submits the nomination. That is why the "Upload Later" feature is so important, so we can nominate something as we see it and upload it once we're back to civilisation. Not saying that Ingress players exclusively do this, there is also a PoGo player in Canberra who will diligently take gyms at mountaintops and get them to gold because they're the easiest to do so. Well... not really, they mostly get spoofed down anyway.
Restricting the distance that people can nominate wayspots would hurt bigtime. It's ridiculously easy for spoofers
from Indiato nominate abusive stuff in the Sydney CBD. It will probably cause more people to circumvent this using 3rd party apps and then nominate with a faked location. If I were desperate to submit new wayspots (especially during a strict lockdown), maybe I would entertain the thought if the submission radius was reduced. But I would rather just be crushed by disappointment and leave the program altogether.There has to be a better solution. Maybe scale the distances according to contributions on Wayfarer? See whether the Wayfinder has a good track record of nominations, the edits they make, are they renowned and reputable?
But the main reason for Ingress nominations and retaining the 25km radius (or maybe even proposing expanding it to a select group of Wayfinders) is because of the adventurous nature of agents.
cc @NianticTintino & @NianticDanbocat
I suspect that PGO app crashing 100% time during picture taking on a lot of devices was the major reason to enable the open existing pictures.
I no longer need to carry an old phone for nominations. The change does make it easier to sit at home and submit within the distance limits, that will be the cost of this low-tech bug fix of camera app crashing the game.
My Andriod S9 and S21 crash 100%. Have to go with an S7 to be reliable before this update in the game.
This change was very handy. It's nice to just get the pics while I'm walking and sit down and figure the specifics out later.
Thanks for responding. Glad to hear that discussions are in place with Brian Rose to bring Ingress on parity with this feature.
Sorry for the text wall.
Here I go restating what I have said, again.
Pgo
Transformers Heavy Metal
Pikmin
Harry Potter Wizards Unite
Catan World Explorers
1) Are all urban centric games.
2) all the above games use Niantic Lightship for client and server. Niantic Lightship as a fact is so bloated and slow that playing these games on a typical 3G connection isn't possible.
2a) John Hanke likes to play down the bloat by blaming mobile infrastructure. And blah blah blah, 5G blah blah. Is frankly ignoring, and border line arrogant. Here's the the, the fact of the matter is that a very large proportion of players do NOT HAVE 5G. In fact most cities that have "5G" isn't actually 5G at all, marketing hype for essentially 4G+, which is pretty fast in ideal scenarios. Less than half of the world barely has 4G. Yet repeatedly the Lightship Team are forcing features onto games that mobile infrastructure cannot handle, meaning that the end user on either very modern hardware, or even 5yr old mobiles have a very very poor experience, if playable at all!
Pokémon GO frankly eats up too much data, so much so it is unplayable in rural areas.
Until the Lightship API team, and the pokemon go developers make the API and PGO 4 times more efficient, the reasoning for pushing forth remote uploading of wayspots needs to not be implemented.
The limitations of uploading on the spot should be considered as a "low pass filter" of adequate mobile signal for reasonable playability of the games listed above.
3) The other side of the sword is this, we WARNED you about the fact that when pgo players were included into Wayspot reviewing that, junk wayspots would be nominated, and go through the system was NOT adhered. Now we constantly get "Gimmie pokemon gym at home".
It is still the case now, but you want to allow for even worse junk to be nominated, and likely go through the system.
Most pokemon go reviewers are good at reviewing, however the fact is that a substantial group of players are still gaming the Wayfarer system.
And you're letting them!
If you are still moving forward with this remote upload feature for pokemon go, a 1km limit is more than adequate, because again, for the games listed above, they are all urban centric.
4) If a Pogo player has poor data to upload on the spot, then they should be recommended to find a way to boost their mobile data signal, much in the same way us Ingress players have had to for years.
Be it a portable hotspot + yagi antenna, or globe sat.
Why? Again, Niantic Lightship has grown so much it is too bloated that the comm layer cannot reasonably considered as acceptable on anything but a strong 4G signal, which again, repeating, much of the world doesn't have good 4G coverage.
My issues are junk. Horrendous amounts of junk wayspots.
Will we be able to have more Waypoints on "nominate later" then the currently available nominations we have? So 7 max? Imo we should get as many as we want, being only restricted as of when we can actually upload them.
I currently have 0 nomination available and can't put anything on "nominate later" but that might be unintentional (i hope).
I've opened Pokemon out in the middle of nowhere and every gym is stacked with international spoofers monsters of extremely high levels. It's a joke.
Unlimited submissions is not the answer to this.
So putting something on "upload later" still takes a nomination away? And we can only have 7 on "upload later" ?
You still use up a nomination yes. As for how many you can queue up, I would imagine it’s seven maximum (at least for Pokémon GO).
I would think it temporarily removes one nomination for each one you have queued on “Upload Later” so that you can’t do more than seven.
Then if you decide not to upload one, you’ll get one nomination back.
Seven at a time is plenty for Pokémon GO.
That's awful but i kinda expected it.
Hoped for a way to nominate more than 7 Waypoints when being on hiking trips but i guess Niantic doesn't want players to nominate a lot of Waypoints on remote or rual areas... or dedicated Wayfarers to nominate a lot of Waypoints in general...
Guess the Wayfarer app will only get more fake nomination with that new feature then... Even more than there are already...
There is a way. Download Ingress. Get to level 10. Then that’s 14 extra. The Upload Later feature will be on that too, Soon™️
Awesome "solution"...
As i said, it doesn't appear that Niantic actually wants us to nominate easily...
You now how long it takes to get to lvl 10 in Ingress, an app that's barely a "game"?...
I play it quite a lot and that’s where I nominated stuff before it came to Pokémon GO. I enjoy Ingress now, as it’s own thing, but I did initially start it for Pokémon GO stuff. Now I don’t care if my nominations don’t appear in GO
Currently the only way to get more nominations is to level up in other apps. Not my fault that that’s the only solution from Niantic. 🤷
Just Niantic doing Niantic things ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Too bad I've used 7 nominations yesterday 🙄
So I take it will consume your available nominations to be uploaded later, yes?
I don't get you. You aren't postponing a nomination, you are simply postponing the upload until you get to a stronger single or are on WiFi. I don't understand why you think an "upload later" should allow you more nomination slots.
Yes, it will use the slot when you "submit" it, even if you selected to upload it later. As for when you get the slot back, I would presume it is 13 days from the time you finish uploading the nomination. So that will incentivize you not to keep the nomination stored in memory for too long.