[UK] We have these Cycle and walking routes all around the country

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Comments

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ah okay. Haven’t done it myself and wondered if you’d have to stop each time. Doesn’t sound like it’s a safe place to do it though if you have cars behind you.

    1 ⭐️

  • YouLostAStar-INGYouLostAStar-ING Posts: 280 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeh was a bit of a challenge, was out fielding and had to get train back from nearby town where I didn’t have any uniques in 😅

  • Thor3381-INGThor3381-ING Posts: 209 ✭✭✭

    what about an ordinary trash bin? also interesting if you've just finished your sandwich while walking around and playing, or a normal street-bench - after walking you get tired and you might want to take a rest.

    what about a standard sign for a bus stop (they are concidered as non-acceptable, but they are also unique with their own number and address, if you want to explore somewherelse you might need to take a bus to get there)

    normal directional markers, more than once I've followed them to get somewhere, yet these are amongst the rejection criteria

    In great need even a public toilet is very interesting


    everything is "interesting" to someone at some point in time.


    guess it's just a quality vs quantity discussion

    If you follow a touristical route, you pass by how many POI? (nature/educational signs, statues, monuments...)

    Want people to expore your area: in Ingress you can create missions and combinations of missions, don't know if PoGo has something similar. Use actual POI to guide players along a route

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭✭✭

    don't know if PoGo has something similar. Use actual POI to guide players along a route

    It doesn’t yet, but some kind of route maker was mentioned back in the coding a while back and people think it will be their version of missions.

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Usually justified as "not many pokestops round here" or "helping the community".

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That’s rather eloquent. Usually I just see “Need more PokéStops” or a line to guilt someone into accepting as the person can’t leave the house.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is more what I could want (ignore the viewpoint bit lol, that's actually nothing) that kind of sign that's clearly only for the ncn, with the bike sign and numbered sign, all clearly prominent

  • Thor3381-INGThor3381-ING Posts: 209 ✭✭✭

    Guess what was nominated.

    Sign with historical info or a plain pole with a plaque on it...

    Start to see the problem with these kind of signs? (And yes, these are literally everywhere)

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just to link it back here, I thought doing a poll would be good to see more of the general view of these.

    I may use the anonymous poll thing more in future too.

  • rodensteiner-INGrodensteiner-ING Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why would anyone argue about Trail Markers and Signs on Walking paths and cycling trails?

    They get you Out and cycling.

    Theres nitpicking and moaning. Hey? Why? They are Not Homespots, they wont interfere with private property.

  • RobWaudby-INGRobWaudby-ING Posts: 185 ✭✭✭
  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sustrans has worked hard to push the sustainability agenda for years. In doing that it has really become an established body. I appreciate other countries may wonder why this would be an issue, but it has been in the U.K.

    it is also about exploration- so core to Niantic’s goals.

    In terms of signage the problem is by getting the buy in from local and National governments and fundamentally to make it easy for people to explore their signage has become more uniform but distinctive. As they are also into sustainablity so in places instead of waiting resources on a separate sign, to keep environmental impacts low they are being incorporated into signs.

    The signs are the tangible artificial objects that we can have as waypoints.

    So far so good we have good trails, pedestrian access and it’s all about exploration.

    We should be able to agree that all of these fit the criteria for waypoints?

    The size, shape, colour, and material of the sign shouldn’t matter. Again is that a point of agreement?

    The location of a sign is important is at a natural start or end point, is it at a point where there is a decision about direction. All of these should be important points on a trail. If it’s a straight path then a reminder that you are still on a straight path is weak in terms of location. Some subjectively.

    So the only bone of contention is around the information on the sign?

    Some of this will always be subjective and I don’t think it’s helpful to have a yes/no stance.

    The question then is when is the information too scant so that it it not helpful for someone navigating the route, grading through clear helpful unambiguous information trail name, number, direction, distance.

    What do others think in particular about the focus on content.

    I am trying to find places of agreement rather than entrenched stances.

  • TWVer-INGTWVer-ING Posts: 449 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are you assuming that I made this nomination? Sorry to disappoint you, but I didn't.

    I agree with most of your post though. People shouldn't misplace the marker to get more wayspots, and that title is wrong.

    However, this post is irrelevant to this topic. This topic is about the validity of these markers, not about abusive and bad nominations. Way to many posts on the last 2 pages are trying to derail the topic.

  • rodensteiner-INGrodensteiner-ING Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it is the trails, not the markers. People need to understand this. Everyone here that nitpicks, just for once in your life get outside and walk a trail. You will find alot of Trail Markers, that are "unsuitable" for the Niantic Database - in your opinion. Just put yourself literally in the shoes of people that walk these trails on a daily base - they will never get a pokestop there, if you always reject the trail markers.

    These people want to combine their weeekly/even daily exercise and also have a little bit of fun playing Niantic Games ON that trail. There is no harm done if you accept a wayspot that looks like a boring generic trail marker. Or even painted ones at trees. NO harm done. Noone gets a homespot, mostly these trails cannot be cargressed.

  • YouLostAStar-INGYouLostAStar-ING Posts: 280 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I walked 30km earlier and found many interesting points of interest in a very rural area, maybe if people took the time to walk down every road they would find the hidden gems that no one else has submitted. Too often I see the main roads full of portals/pokestops because that is peoples commutes and those have been fully submitted but even a church on a side street never got submitted.

  • RobWaudby-INGRobWaudby-ING Posts: 185 ✭✭✭

    Still you argument for why some trail markers can or cannot be poi is invalid. People do take the time to look around them but also people want to play the games the way they want to play them. So if that’s on their way to work or school they should be allowed to do so.

  • Sustrans has worked hard to push the sustainability agenda for years. In doing that it has really become an established body. I appreciate other countries may wonder why this would be an issue, but it has been in the U.K.

    it is also about exploration- so core to Niantic’s goals.

    Sustrans is also in the process of removing sections from the network it deems are too busy or unsafe, with the aim of providing more accessible routes for all. This means some on road parts are either being removed or re-classified, so at least we can forget about those bits.

    The signs are the tangible artificial objects that we can have as waypoints.

    So far so good we have good trails, pedestrian access and it’s all about exploration.

    We should be able to agree that all of these fit the criteria for waypoints?

    Agreed for signs for trails. I do not think all NCN routes, or all parts of NCN routes, are trails in the sense intended with respect to exploration. (I’ll come back to this.)

    The size, shape, colour, and material of the sign shouldn’t matter. Again is that a point of agreement?

    Agreed for signs for trails. It has been discussed before, but most recent response supporting this in this thread from @NianticGiffard: “Even a small marker on a trail will encourage players to cover more of the trail if there are more Wayspots on the way.”

    I’d also like to point out, especially for those commenting on the generic-ness of the NCN signs and latching on to the previous response from @NianticGiffard that this is under “Does not meet eligibility criteria”:

    “Does not meet eligibility criteria

    Does not seem to be a great place of exploration, place for exercise, or place to be social. The object is mass-produced, generic, or not visually unique or interesting.”

    If we’ve already ascertained that (some parts of) NCN routes meet the eligibility criteria, then we’ve decided they are interesting enough, and that the signs look generic is moot.

    So the only bone of contention is around the information on the sign?

    I don't have any contention here: A walking or hiking trail marker with just an arrow or route logo is acceptable, so I don’t see why a bike trail with a route number is not acceptable either.

    My problem with the blue NCN signs is they refer to NCN routes, not specific trails, although some routes do incorporate trails. I think sections of NCN routes can count as trails. One way to distinguish trails from other sections of routes might be to look at the way types. NCN routes contain a mix of way types, including:

    1. roads, shared with motor-vehicles, with or without marked cycle lanes;
    2. cycle lanes adjacent to roads;
    3. pavements (sidewalks) adjacent to roads, with divided or shared use for pedestrians and cyclists;
    4. urban cycleways;
    5. paths or bridleways.

    I count the first three as part of the road network and mostly not interesting for Wayfarer.

    By “urban cycleways” I mean paved routes specifically for cyclists (but often shared with pedestrians) that serve more as an alternative to roads for getting from one place to another than they do for exploration. There could be exceptions, but I would take some convincing. The section of route itself may not be interesting for Wayfarer, but it can still have points on it that are, for example the Manchester Cycleway, which incorporates the Fallowfield Loop (old re-purposed railway loop line), has one of those decorative NCN mileposts along it, and some carvings, among other things.

    Only the fifth would I consider a definitive starting point for something acceptable as a trail. The NCN does include named trails in its routes, and they usually have extra signage for them — they are often also walking trails anyway so can probably be added without needing to rely on NCN signs.

    There are NCN routes that are named routes or incorporate other named routes, such as the C2C, that I don’t think are eligible just because they have names, but sections of them might still be eligible.

    That leaves trails that at are part of NCN routes where the only signage is that provided by NCN. I think sections of NCN routes can count as trails and should not be excluded just because the only signage is NCN, but I think we’d need to see evidence that this fits the sense of a trail for exploration that other parts of NCN routes do not.

    I’m definitely with those who don’t want every single little blue NCN sign popping up.

  • Cowyn2016-PGOCowyn2016-PGO Posts: 365 ✭✭✭✭

    This is one of the things that frustrates me most about wayfarer and why I dont use it more.

    Why are markers along a trail acceptable, but memorial benches along a trail not.


    There are some really good miles and miles long trails in my american state with no pokestops because the state doesnt put up random markers, there are plenty of memorial benches along the way.

  • Jtronmoore-PGOJtronmoore-PGO Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This has been answered before. Memorial benches need to be in memory of someone significant of the community or if its marks a historic part of time. 99% of benches that get submitted are just benches for random people of no importance.

    So instead of diverting from the actual topic you should make your own post instead of trying to piggy back off of this one like many, many others have.

  • Cowyn2016-PGOCowyn2016-PGO Posts: 365 ✭✭✭✭

    I understand its been mentioned... the mention doesn't make sense in light with what Nianticgifford just said about Trail Markers.

    He said Trail Markers on Trails = Elgiible BECAUSE they encourage exploring for the stop + excercise. So someone might walk another mile down the trail to get to next marker and spin the stop.

    My point is that on a TRAIL... the exact same logic would work for memorial benches.

    It's not a diversion of topic, its the logic for why Trail Markers would be eligible on a Trail should apply to other things.... as long as they are on a trail,

    What is the difference between you doing an extra mile of walking for a "Trail Marker" that other wise has no significance to the community and walking an extra mile for a "Memorial Bench" that otherwise has no significance to the community.

    If anything, what I am saying is that if Niantic wants t have a different quality standard on trails ... then it should apply accross the board on trails

    Sorry if that seems "Off topic" to you... but it seems extremely "On topic" .... the nomination eligiblity of stuff on trails to me.

  • Having a mount on the bike for your phone helps. You don't necessarily need to get off your bike, but you might need to stop and put your feet down.

    I wouldn't recommend a glyph hack while moving, but a quick hack or spin is doable.

    If you're cycling on the road (or a cycle lane or footpath (sidewalk) adjacent to a road) and attempting to interact with your phone at the same time you're almost certainly not paying enough attention and therefore doing it unsafely. Stopping in the middle of a road or cycle lane for a Wayspot isn't a good idea either.

    I have cycled around parks and on trails to for "bikegress" without always stopping, but I often still stop and put my feet down if I'm glyph hacking. Sometimes I will just get off and walk with the bike anyway -- easier to visit/cap all the portals in a portal dense area or too many people about to bikegress safely.

    A bike is more useful when the next portal is some distance away: some mission banners are like this, and especially good for making moderately sized fields. It's also good for getting across an Ingress anomaly play area -- e.g. as rapid response support, or to distribute keys and artifacts to your team mates, but that's venturing off discussion of Wayspots as such.

  • YouLostAStar-INGYouLostAStar-ING Posts: 280 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobWaudby-ING can you explain this one? There isn't even a NCN marker, it’s just a direction sign yet you’ve submitted it and trying to use @NianticGiffard’s answer as evidence that it’s acceptable when thats 100% definitely not what was said.

    you are twisting the clarification we got and you have made Kings Lynn as a known place to take more care of when reviewing because we know the submitter there is a liar and we can’t take your submissions at face value.

  • RobWaudby-INGRobWaudby-ING Posts: 185 ✭✭✭

    It’s on a official trail check the links I’ve provided in the extra information.

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just rejected another generic blue marker nomination. Typing "NianticGiffard says these are acceptable" in the supporting info in not going to alter the fact that the sort of stuff above without a trail name on it is just another generic, not interesting signpost.

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Although I agree with you on several of the other examples especially NCN, I would reject this one as the sign does not mention the trail. Simply because an item is located on a trail does not then enable it to be a proxy for the trail.

  • ★☆☆☆☆ Abuse → Other rejection [ Influencing reviewers. Generic sign. ]

  • RobWaudby-INGRobWaudby-ING Posts: 185 ✭✭✭

    "Even a small marker on a trail will encourage players to cover more of the trail if there are more Wayspots on the way." This is from @NianticGiffard would a small marker have a name? Small marker could just be a picture which would still be acceptable. So how is this sign any different i have proven this sign is for walkers bikers along a cycleway its also a official trail which I have linked a website.

This discussion has been closed.