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Bars and cafes always go through but reviewers have decided that this one shouldn't. Any ideas on why or just more OPR abuse by reviewers?
Obviously, as usual, the rejection reasons make no sense/are not true
Can you post screenshots of the submission so we can see what your supporting evidence was?
@RandomExploit-ING Dig up some history on the nomination. It seems to be part of a golf club, which does make it a bit more interesting (est. 1897 I see, that could be worth mentioning). Mention some backstory, the scenery around it.. Oh, and mention that outsiders are also welcome (says so on the site), it might convince some stray reviewers who seem to think its location is a problem (though it would also be fine if it was only for the golfers).
So I think people are rejecting because your support text reads like you just lazily listed the acceptance criteria. Instead share some information about the place. Does it have any unique menu items? Interesting decor? Is it nearby anything else that make it a good exploration spot?
You’re not required to do these things but a lot of reviewers are going to expect you to put in a bit more work on the submission rather than expecting them to look the place up and figure out if it’s unique and local or just a fancy starbucks.
It should just go through based on the fact it's a bar/cafe. It doesn't have to be public to be accepted.
I see people adding all sorts of lies to portal submissions to oversell it, so I tend to give it a single guaranteed reason to go through and assume reviewers are not rejecting stuff abusively or without using their brain.
I asked for advice and it was given, so thanks for that. Im actually thinking of giving up submitting and reviewing now because the system is broke when you have to fight tooth and nail to get a 100% 5* through and even then it might not appear on the map because of a bug Niantic won't acknowledge /rant
Give an effort or expect a rejection
Being convinced a nomination is "a 100% 5*" is, in my opinion, a mistake. The guidelines have been altered in the past more than once, there are still some grey areas, and you have to remember you're dealing with reviewers of all ages and skill levels. The rejection reasons given are proof of that :) Some nominations SHOULD be a yes/no matter, but in practice nothing is. Also, you never get the same group of reviewers, so an element of luck is also present.
I agree with @SookieIlych-PGO though, it's really for the best if you put some effort into it, to get that one swaying reviewer to your side. You don't need to lie, just tell them:
Title: The Terrace
Description: Family friendly place in the midst of natural surroundings near the golf course.
Supporting statement: Nice little cafe/bar with terrace surrounded by nature, near the golf course (est. 1897). Open to both club members and outsiders.
Not overdone, no untrue word, and remember that swaying ONE reviewer could mean the difference. Try it once more, THEN you can quit. :)
The criteria explicitly states popular restaurants and favorite coffee shops. Those adjectives aren't there just to take up space or to make things sound nice. Niantic has also stated that not every restaurant/coffee shop/café/etc. is eligible and that it is up to the nominator to show that it meets criteria. There simply is no presumption of eligibility.
You didnt put any effort into the nomination and seem surprised that it was rejected due to your own failure in explaining / proving it meets criteria.
Think of this as a learning experience in putting more details into a submission instead of just a couple of lazy words and expecting it to be accepted
People meet at cafes and bars, hence why every pub/bar is a POI in the game.
I appreciate everyone giving their opinion but it also confirms to me the state of wayfarer when you have to write a masterpiece for a description on a submission that should not require one. The fact that so many will argue that it's needed now cements my (and others) view on the situation.
I say this as someone who has created 250 odd POI and those that deserve or require a good description get it. But when so many perfect submissions get rejected after you have put so much effort in, you do it less. Then watch as **** Submissions with the description the same as the title go through.
Again, thanks for your opinions, it helped me a lot.
" People meet at cafes and bars, hence why every pub/bar is a POI in the game." - this is incorrect. People meet in lots of places, doesn't automatically make those places eligible for the game.
And you don't have to write masterpieces, just more than 'bar meeting place etc".
But it's clear you've made up your mind. Good luck on submitting. Or not submitting.
I'm going to tag @NianticTintino, @NianticDanbocat, and @NianticGiffard, but as far as I know, none of this has changed in the last year. You can complain all you want about the burden being placed on the nominator, but that doesn't change the fact that the requirement exists and you didn't provide any sort of context in your nomination to show that it meets criteria beyond "it exists".
@RandomExploit-ING As much as I love my restaurants and cafes and want to see more of them, you're simply incorrect. There is no canned bar/cafe criteria. You can say "meeting place" all you want, but you've actually said nothing at all to show me that it's a meeting place. You do need to put in the effort to defend the social criteria or the exploration criteria (it's historical, it has great food, it's unique somehow). Otherwise, I'll take one look at this and think, "must be like any old generic bar on any street corner ever," and 1* it.
And yeah, this category of POIs is unfairly harder to get approved BECAUSE that's what everyone thinks, even if you do defend it. So you're stuck having to defend it anyway, just for a shot at getting your POI. Kudos if you can shove something through on a one-liner, but that's no reason to complain so much if suddenly you can't. At least choose a one-liner that isn't clearly all about laziness: "bar, meeting place etc," screams that this is a drive-by and you didn't care enough to devote your time to it, so why should anyone else? We're not looking it up for you; that's your job.
Most of the people on here who ask for nomination input make statements identical to yours: that they know everything about what they're doing, that it's a clearly perfect POI with an obviously great submission ... and then it all comes out in the wash: no, the submission was actually sub-par and really did need to be improved.
You have a shot, but it takes at least a little effort.
Put it this way:
In my suburb of town, I have a local independent Indian restaurant that's been around for over 20 years, is popular, and has won several local awards. I include variations on all of this information each time I submit it, and try to sell it to reviewers and flesh it out as much as I can, but it still gets rejected time after time (usually for nonsense reasons like explicit activity and abuse).
If I'm struggling with a place which really ought to be acceptable given the amount of effort I'm putting in when I submit it, then your lack of effort submission is clearly going to stand no chance. As others have said, you need to provide more information on why it meets the eligibility criteria, not just assume that it's a slam dunk.
I thought Golf Clubs fell into a defined category - say no to the various tee and hole markers and general "xxx Golf Club" entrance signs, but accept the Club House as "A place to be social". Nominante the club house, not a particular bar within it.
@sogNinjaman-ING That too can differ greatly between cases in my opinion. For example:
If there's a small tennis court's entrance online, and on those court grounds is a shack with a deepfryer in it calling itself "cafe": I don't think I would accept it (not without a smashing good story from the nominator), because it doesn't look interesting, unique or inviting. As opposed to a nice familiy friendly bar/cafe, open to all, in beautiful natural surroundings next to a 100+ year old golf course.
I'll repeat myself in saying that I think the OP's nomination really has more chance with a nice presentation.
What you quot d is totally irrelevant to the example I have. There is only one golf club called Dorking golf club and it's bar that I submitted in it is not part of a chain or generic like the Starbucks highlight. It's name is unique and it's not part of a chain.
Everything you highlighted is totally irrelevant as an argument
You missed my point. What percentage of people go to a bar to drink alone? What percentage go there to meet friends or drink with friends?
You don't even need to know the percentages, because you know people go there for that reason and thus...
it's at least a 4*. A 5* for being totally unique and not a chain in this case for the extra picky reviewers.
I get your point and thank you for the time writing it and maybe you are right. I just won't spend the time any more to try and convince those who think they know best/those that hang around in wayfarer chat rooms who try and control the narrative of submissions. Lots of friends are fed up with stupid rejections now and won't review so I just see Niantic having a lot worse POI database than they could have.
Most of my submissions are nowhere near where I live and the chances of me going back to all the places to resubmit is slim to none and some of my submissions will never be found by anyone else. So annoying to me and detrimental to Niantic
You are under the illusion that a presumption of eligibility exists for restaurant/coffee shop/café/etc. I provided quotes from Niantic staff that directly show that there is no such presumption exists and that the burden is on the nominator to show that the a specific restaurant/coffee shop/café/etc. meets the eligibility criteria. If you refuse to accept that burden and continue putting minimal effort into the description and supporting information, then this cafe will continue to be rejected no matter how many times you submit it.
When passing restaurants/bars through here in the US, I've had my best success when I include three things in the supporting info: a column the local paper, a food blog article, and the aggregated rating from a community-review site like Yelp or TripAdvisor, all with links. I can rave as much as I want about the food/drink at my nomination. but I'm just some Joe on the Internet who has some implied bias to promote that nomination. Reviewers seem to like positive feedback from third-party sources. Good luck on the resubmit if you go that way.
dude just close the thread. people have given you a lot of advice and all you’ve done is defensively yell because you don’t actually want to improve the nomination you just want people to reassure you that the people who denied your submission are big meanies
Sure, you can make a blanket claim that it's a social spot. But not every spot meets criteria just because it's social. And there are millions upon millions of non-chain restaurants, yet they are not all POIs, either. They have to stand out from the crowd, and that's essentially what everyone is asking you to prove - that this restaurant stands out from the crowd. Otherwise every restaurant/cafe/bar would be a POI, and that's not the case, nor desirable.
I read the sign and see: beer, wine, soft drinks, coffee, snack, lunch, ice cream. I can get all of those from my home fridge. What about this place makes it better than that? Better than an Applebees? I mean, think of walking through a town and stumbling upon a POI like yours. I've been playing Pokemon Go, I want a place to eat, but I want somewhere good. I can choose from your restaurant or three other places just as close. There is nothing in your restaurant description that even makes me the slightest bit inclined to go there. Maybe you think it's fine as it is to get a POI, but for the person on the street actually exploring, it falls way short because I'm not interested.
If nothing else, consider the interest of the person playing. I LIKE to see at least a little something about what makes this place great. Otherwise, I'm not wasting my time walking to it. Churning POIs out like a machine with the minimum info isn't the point, the point is to create something that makes people want to explore there, and that's what you didn't do.
I get you're not going back to it, but I hope you'll consider that perspective in the future.
No, just pubs and bars that sell alcohol. Every one of them in every town or village is a portal because it's obvious people go there to socialise, but maybe some of you do not understand that because you come from a country that has a different culture or does things differently than here in the UK. It's just odd ones out the way that people don't drive by or don't have players nearby that are not a Niantic POI because they have not been submitted before.
I don't see an option to the lock the thread or I would. The feedback given has helped in a few ways and my annoyance is not at anyone who has replied here.
Walking new places off the beaten track and finding new things to submit has been more fun for me than playing Niantic games for a while but the fun is sucked out of it when good submissions in unusual locations I won't be returning too get rejected, even before getting to the stupid rejections such as a body part sensitive location that clearly isn't but I digress....200+ new POI under my belt before reviewers got so pedantic with submissions.
A good description should go into every waypoint so people can actually learn something about it. Many pubs as you say are in the game but when I see a description “pub” or sometimes nothing at all it really annoys me. Many pubs throughout the UK are listed buildings and have a unique history or a story to tell. A quick google would tell people that. And they can add a little bit about the place’s history, but no many people put very little effort into everything and this is another reason why the system is clogged with edits because someone will come along and think this needs a better description when the person who submitted it could of done it in the first place and it would add to the waypoint being more interesting etc. And the player can go away having visited a location, thinking “well I didn’t know that, and I’ve walked passed here loads of times” that the explore element met.