Fisheye lens photos

Melurra-PGOMelurra-PGO Posts: 421 ✭✭✭✭✭

I just came across wayspots in the "Check for Duplicates" with photos that seem to be taken with a fisheye lens. The images are distorted, and the corners are black. Would such a photo make the nomination rejectable? I feel this could also border on "submitter identifiable" because it's such a distinct lens and no one else does it.

Here are some examples. The "Check for Duplicates" section had about 10 wayspots with this kind of photo.


Comments

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Personally, I'd say that it's not acceptable? IDK... As a supporting photo 100% fine, but I'd like to hear other's opinions too. Interesting find.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,560 Ambassador

    Hmmm...I can clearly tell what's being nominated, most phones have a Fisheye option, and in fact the images looks kinda cool in review but will likely be cropped in the in-game version: I'd likely not be able to tell who submitted just from the aspect, and I wouldn't reject for photo for any of these (although I'd take a star away somewhere).

  • ScaryS0ul-PGOScaryS0ul-PGO Posts: 162 ✭✭✭

    I would accept #1-3 as the focus is mainly on thr subject... #4 i might reject or give 3 star...

  • AScarletSabre-PGOAScarletSabre-PGO Posts: 754 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the photographs. There is nothing in criteria to say such a photograph is unacceptable. I'd have no issues accepting these.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    "Obviously edited or doctored" is a rejection criteria for photos.

    Casey had also previously shared (pre 3.1 refresh) :

    Clarity filters are ok but using an artistic one that would so distort the photo that the Wayspot is indistinguishable or difficult to see, including panoramic photos, as the main image should be a one-star vote for the 'Should this be a Wayspot?' criteria.

    What do you say, @NianticTintino, does this clarification stand or should we "create the precedent" to accept like your suggestion to accept black and white photos?


  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,560 Ambassador

    artistic one that would so distort the photo that the Wayspot is indistinguishable or difficult to see

    That's the key for me. This filter does not obscure the candidate and I can plainly see what it is. That's the same standard I apply to photos at night, or photos at an angle.

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I were going solely on what I'd want to see in-game, I would probably lean toward rejecting these. In my mind, the photo exists to show the player what the point of interest looks like. If the photo has been taken with a lens that intentionally distorts the image away from what a human would see, it's falling short of that goal. There are other places to show off your cool photography skills.

    Having said that, I'm not sure what I would actually do if I got a photo like this in Wayfarer. I don't believe we have any specific guidance on the subject.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's my thought. Because 0 of these need the fisheye, you can fit the objects all in a normal photo frame. And then fisheye lease attachment creates a bunch of black blank space. Fine for supporting photo, not so much for the main photo

    Depending on what it is IDK if I'd flat out reject it though? This one feels like a grey area for sure.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,560 Ambassador
    edited October 2021

    Photos that are considered bad just because people don't like them (although the final photo for a pokestop would generally have those edges cropped anyway) can always be replaced. Most images have a lot of nothing along the edges anyway. If we can clearly tell what the focus is, and that focus matches the candidate title and description, then the biggest penalty should be subtracting a star or two. It's a lot easier to get a new photo uploaded than it is to resubmit a rejected candidate.

    I'd personally think of them as the photo version of typos, spelling errors, or capitalization errors: maybe annoying, but easily correctable if the nomination merits approval overall. I like seeing interesting photography and creative title/description text, while many prefer more rigid standards and formulaic titling. In the end, the community chooses the option that makes sense.

  • CipherBlakk-PGOCipherBlakk-PGO Posts: 309 ✭✭✭✭

    The photos are fine. There's nothing personally identifiable IN them, and they meet all the photo criteria. You could easily identify the real world object using the photo if you showed up in person, which is the point. I wouldn't have any problem accepting a submission with photos like these.

  • Melurra-PGOMelurra-PGO Posts: 421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts and especially @Gendgi-PGO for sleuthing related comments from Nia staff.

    What I gather is that blanket rejection is too harsh. It would be more on a case-by-case basis depending on how recognizable or, conversely, distorted and unrecognizable the subject is.

    I still feel a bit hesitant for a few reasons. I don't really buy into the "subtle hidden signs in photos to indicate to a cabal of reviewers that it should be accepted" conspiracies, like when the same dog is in more than one supporting photo. But, if someone wanted to do that, this would admittedly be an easy way. Most likely, the person who submitted these photos is just trying to make them look "cool."

    I agree with @flatmatt-PGO that ideal photos would be as faithful as possible to what a human would see in person. Something like photos for a travel brochure: good quality, no artistic lenses/filters or manipulation at all (except perhaps basic color or lighting correction). That doesn't necessarily exclude artistic framing or artistic natural lighting, as a human could ostensibly observe the POI under such conditions with the na.ked eye. That's just what I sense the spirit of this kind of project to be. However, I understand that it's not explicitly stated as such, so I wouldn't outright reject the nomination based on such a self-made guideline.

    The thing that still gives me the most pause is the black corners. Yes, these "round" photos are well-suited for PoGo photo discs, and the cropping in Ingress probably looks fine too (no idea about HPWU). However, we all know that we are contributing not just to Nia's current games, but also future games and products. Black corners and fuzzy round margins may be very unsuitable to future games. (Imagine a "living museum" app where the POI photo is put in an ornate wooden frame as though it were in an art museum, for example.)

    As I understand it, photos are the hardest part of a wayspot to "correct" because photo edits don't necessarily replace the original photo but rather just add photos if the original photo is not marked by reviewers as "does not meet criteria." Which I guess brings us full circle...

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd like the photos to be as natural as possible. You know, retaining their colours, no colour-coding or random filters. Imagine having Snapchat colour filters in an entire town because they didn't know that it wasn't acceptable. I'm not exactly a fan of the black and white greyscale thing, games could modify what the wayspot image could look like but it really needs to be as real as looking at the real-life object imo.

    Since people have devisive opinions however, I think it's just majority rules. But I know of one person back when submitting portals years ago they would always add a green tinge to the sky to make the wayspot look "enticing" and look like everything has an aurora borealis.

  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I read the subject of this thread I thought “easy reject,” but after actually looking, I’d approve 1 through 3. The images are engaging and interesting, while keeping the subject front and center and very clear. I have no question about what the subject of the nomination is, and these pictures look good.

    The 4th, the corner of the building, I have no love for. This one is pretty unsuccessful, IMO.

  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 2,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These would look HORRIBLE in Ingress. Niantic chops a full third off the top of pictures there. The bottom black corners would be as bad as a picture taken from a car. Maybe worse.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,560 Ambassador

    As I understand it, photos are the hardest part of a wayspot to "correct" because photo edits don't necessarily replace the original photo but rather just add photos if the original photo is not marked by reviewers as "does not meet criteria." Which I guess brings us full circle..

    The photo that represents the waypoint can be switched, though, with upvotes in the appropriate apps. In this case the fisheye photos might well be rejected for "other rejection criteria" but there's no "does not meet criteria" for photos of this type: "does not meet criteria" is only a rejection reason for the waypoint as a whole, and is not applicable here.

    Realistic, fully unmanipulated images are added to the database by scanning (when people actually scan correctly instead of just aiming at the ground) and that seems to be the route for the future at least as far as incentives go. Besides, with Ingress AP awarded for accepted photo submissions I always welcome the chance to correct a photo or two on my own. :)

  • Eneeoh-PGOEneeoh-PGO Posts: 748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    None of us can predict the future. Any future uses of our photos must either take them as they are or reframe/reprocess them in accordance with needs at that time.

    It wouldn’t hurt if the designers offered guidance to accommodate the various existing and planned uses, though. How to Futureproof your Nomination Photos @NianticDanbocat

    We can only attempt to take good photos based on current knowledge. Most Wayfarers are probably only familiar with a single game….

  • JSteve0-INGJSteve0-ING Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭

    I don't like the photos. I prefer them to be more like the natural eye. That being said, I would not reject these nominations for photo quality. There is room for a little creativity and difference in approach as long as the wayspot item is clearly shown in the photo. That being said, if the accepted wayspots were in my area I would go and add a non-fisheye photo to the wayspot.

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