Rejected Upgraded Nomination. What should I have done differently?

JamesDittburner-PGOJamesDittburner-PGO Posts: 13 ✭✭
edited October 2021 in General Discussion

I've attached the rejection email, 3 screenshots of my nomination and the trail marker(existing POI) that exists nearby that I reference in my Supplemental Information to clarify that it's not a duplicate. There's many of these signs along the trail and a few already exist as POIs, I was planning on making all of the trail markers POIs. I didn't nominate the existing ones however, so I'm not sure what they had written to make them accepted. I'm currently at a loss as I used an upgrade thinking that trail markers were a slam dunk for reviewers. The email says that this nomination does not appear to be historically or culturally significant. I'm aware that I cannot appeal the rejection. I'm just looking for advice on how I should do things differently on my next attempt or if people think that this was rightfully rejected. I really didn't think I was wasting an upgrade on a trail marker. This was my 7th upgrade, all my previous ones were accepted(none were trail markers however). All comments are appreciated, thank you for your time!

Post edited by JamesDittburner-PGO on

Comments

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2021

    First, I want to start off with this quote from @NianticDanbocat where they state that reviewers do not have to approve any nomination and that there is a difference between being eligible and being acceptable.

    Many reviewers see multiple trail signs as meeting the first rejection criteria, particularly the second half of the criterion.

    • Does not seem to be a great place of exploration, place for exercise, or place to be social. The object is mass-produced, generic, or not visually unique or interesting.

    The rejection reason you were given pretty much falls in line with this. But I will also note that reviewers cannot pick this reason from the list they are given.

    P.S. Looking at your photos, I don't see the trail. I see a road/street, I see a sidewalk, I see mutiple driveways. If the trail is on the street, then that would make it ineligible because there is no safe pedestrian access.

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you have one sign already in game saying "turn right", and you submit the "opposite" sign round the corner saying "turn left", I'd probably mark that asa duplicate, or "not visually unique".

  • DeDuckIsDees-INGDeDuckIsDees-ING Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2021

    How many are there already of this exact same sign approved? I would only approve just one. Not all the directional signs of the same trail as they are at each intersection.

  • @TheFarix-PGO I don't understand how this meets that rejection criteria. It's not a mass-produced object because these signs cannot be found anywhere other than on this trail, so it's produced but not in mass amounts, there was a specific number made once and only once. You won't find an identical sign marking a different trail because this is not a generic trail marker sign, it has the name of the trail on the sign "Malton Loop Trail" so therefore it's specific which is the opposite of generic. If you are standing at this trail marker and were to look around in every direction you would only see this one trail marker, so if it was a POI you wouldn't be confused as to where the photo in game is linked to real life making it visually unique. It's interesting if you're following the trail because if you ignore it then you won't turn and stay on the trail, interesting is subjective however. Maybe I misunderstand English definitions for words, if that's the case tell me what perceptions of mine are wrong.

    PS. You saw a sidewalk and yet think that there is no safe pedestrian access. Not all trails are in wooded areas don't be too closed minded. This Malton Loop Trail does go through some Greenways, but the majority of it is on a sidewalk for pedestrians, cyclists are expected to stay on the road based on this city's bylaws.

    PPS. Would you still reject this after this information that I've provided?

  • @DeDuckIsDees-ING there are currently 3 Malton Loop Trail markers that are active POIs. There is a total of 34 of these along the trail. I've now spoken to the submitter of the 3 that are in game. He said he had one get rejected too. So we've decided it's best not to upgrade them as they're more likely to get approved if local players review them. But there's a lack of interest for reviewing in our area, so it'll likely be 4 or 5 years before they're through the queue and voting. Also this means that I'll have to stop reviewing so as to not get anymore upgrades, sad how toxic the community is and how Niantic has no clarity, and if they ever are clear about something it's not distributed to every reviewer, and things stay obscure for those that don't dig through post after post to find clarity. Sorry that I more than answered your simple question and started rambling. Thank you.

  • @sogNinjaman-ING Is a trail marker every mile unique? For me it absolutely is, but someone else might look at it holistically that’s there’s 100 of them in a 100 mile trail. I personally think that’s wrong, and that’s why “visually unique” does more harm than good and results in good nominations being lost, that makes the game worse for everyone.

    I feel like I’m screaming into a paper bag here, so as I’m clearly very misaligned with the thinking within the rest of the community I’ll depart, but leave a parting hope;

    All players make a nomination with the best of intentions. I’d encourage that when you review people’s nominations that you of course follow the rules, but when it’s as subjective and as open to misinterpretation as Niantic’s very grey rules allow for, ask yourself this; would the nomination encourage and enable more exploration and exercise, with new adventures for players to go on?

    If the answer is yes, I hope you’ll consider approving more frequently in future. The game is better for everyone when the trails are breadcrumbed.

    Thanks and all the best

    PS. I actually copied this from another thread

    @TeddiiKetchum-PGO I feel like you won't mind that I copied your original work.

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Meh, boring generic cycle sign next to a road, 1* candidate.

    See

    For why the one you have submitted would be considered generic and an unworthy candidate

  • @Theisman-ING except that those are country wide used on multiple different paths making them non-specific. The ones I've nominated are not a mass-produced object because these signs cannot be found anywhere other than on this trail, so it's produced but not in mass amounts, there was a specific number made once and only once. You won't find an identical sign marking a different trail because this is not a generic trail marker sign, it has the name of the trail on the sign "Malton Loop Trail" so therefore it's specific which is the opposite of generic. So please take more time and consideration into your reviewing and don't assume every trail marker is a 1* candidate. Thank you.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2021

    The signs themselves are made through mass production techniques, stamped out of a sheet of metal at a standard size and shape, and a screen print or sticker applied. So yes, they would fall under mass produced objects. Just because there are some customized parts doesn't mean that the signs were made through mass production techniques.

    And I judge pedestrian access on the trail itself, not where the sign is located. If the trail shares the road with vehicular traffic, then it is simply not acceptable because the trail lacks pedestrian access.

  • The26thDoctor-PGOThe26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2021

    Without really knowing the area I would say to be helpful take a close up picture so that only the Malton loop sign can be seen in your nomination pic.

    You could also say why this is an interesting part of the trail?

    Trail markers can definitely be hit and miss though. Good luck

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You have completely missed the point, its an arrow sign next to a road, exactly what Niantic have said in the above thread as being generic and uninteresting.

    You seem convinced that your candidate is worthwhile while almost everyone else had told you its a 1* reject.

    Feel free to re submit it, just don't be surprised if it gets bounced back as a reject yet again

  • @TheFarix-PGO By that logic not a single signboard should make it into the games. Not park signs, not welcome signs, not plaques, not anything manufactured. That's not logic you're working with. And ya I've never heard of a pedestrian trail without safe pedestrian access. I still appreciate and thank you for your time. It's helped me realize that reviewers don't all have common sense.

  • @TheFarix-PGO @sogNinjaman-ING @DeDuckIsDees-ING @Theisman-ING 4 hours ago Niantic finished internally reviewing a nomination of mine because it wasn't in voting yesterday and it's approved today, that doesn't happen in my area without an upgrade, I have many nominations that have been in voting for over a year. It was a trail marker from this same trail so now there are 4 of the 34 markers that have a POI! Hooray! If only the community wasn't so toxic and Niantic would internally review more of my nominations before the community rejects them haha. Email and photo of nomination attached. I get to spin my new stop in 10 hours when it goes live in PoGo at 2pm EST. A day late and not the one I expected but I'll take it thank you Niantic internal review!


  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Judging by the photo, at keast to one side of that sign is a pavement/sidewalk, so that to me is safe pedestrian access.


    As for your "made through mass production techniques", that could be said of virtually half the best pois. The mugas in scotland/UK are pretty much made the exact same way (eveb to the same wee space for a bench). Play park equipment will have been done through a mass production technique. All the park entrance signs in Glasgow are the exact same except the park name is changed, other than that, there is no way to differentiate them. The mass produced rejection criteria was to make sure bog standard Road signs, statues that can be bought in a shop etc. Were not to get through from my reading


    I still probably wouldn't approve this myself, as it is technically against what niantic wanted for bike trails (not next to a road) but then the trail has its own picture, so that could push it up to a 3 or 4

  • grendelwulf-INGgrendelwulf-ING Posts: 273 ✭✭✭✭

    Your description says it is on the intersection of two streets but your location pin says that it isn't.

  • URWhatUKnow-INGURWhatUKnow-ING Posts: 84 ✭✭✭


    The expression "Don't feed the trolls" is very applicable here. This is a person that evaluates on his own criteria, and many of his previous posts really show this.


    Even the first phrase of his argument would be an instant tell that the rest of it is nothing but hogwash 😂

  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “I want to make the same marginal POI 34 times over and anyone who thinks I shouldn’t is toxic! Lucky for me there are internal Niantic reviewers who don’t know the criteria! BRING ME MORE REVIEWERS WITH LESS EXPERIENCE!”

  • @DeDuckIsDees-ING @X0bai-PGO Okay so let's talk about all trails in general for a moment. Hiking trails and biking trails are listed on the criteria page as a great place for exercise. So let's say you plan to walk a trail and play one of Niantic’s games whilst doing so. Now in your opinion there should be only one POI for the trail, likely it would be at the trailhead(start). Okay so this is maybe where the fact that I've never played Ingress or WU might mean PoGo players have a different view on what should exist in game but just hear my side for a moment. If I spin the stop at the start of the trail and then proceed to hike the trail, I'm likely going to run out of Pokéballs part way through my hike and have to spend money to buy more Pokéballs or just give up on playing PoGo until I finish the trail. Some trails might be littered with in game potential(nature signs, historical buildings, etc.), however most trails in my experience aren't littered with other eligible POIs. This means I'd rather just set up a chair, drop a Lure, and sit at the trailhead, rather than exercising and exploring the trail, as there are no other POIs to investigate. Now if each and every trail marker had a POI I'd be inclined to make the hike because each POI has the potential to have a rare research task, and I know that I will be able to keep replenishing my Pokéballs along the way without spending money. I get that some people in the community live in high density areas(lots of POIs) and have the ability to stock up with lots of consumable items before going to the trail, can you get that some live in an area with less POIs available for stocking up quickly. Trails being breadcrumbed with POIs along the way make it worth going to the trail. If there's only one POI then there's little to no incentive to go explore it. Maybe the trail markers themselves are not very interesting, but I'd bet you'd see lots of interesting things on the trail, most of which are likely natural features or live animals which are ineligible wayspots. So alter your views on trail markers in general. Reject generic bike lanes in a major city that have just a non specific bicycle sign or just an arrow, but if you can tell that it's a specific trail marker than accept it and make the games a better place. Now with all that said I don't know how Ingress or WU runs and maybe they don't need regular POI interactions for consumables, maybe PoGo players are ruining the landscape of wayspots, but are more POIs really a bad thing for those games?

  • Eneeoh-PGOEneeoh-PGO Posts: 468 ✭✭✭✭

    Even seasoned Wayfarers around here are apparently confused by the fact that Locations can be nominated as well as Objects.

    Somehow, they fear that if the literal Wayspots along a marked trail are accepted as Wayfarer POIs, other people will nominate too many things.

    @NianticTintino said there’s nothing saying we have to accept stuff just because it meets acceptance and doesn’t merit rejection, and so we find ourselves here.

    Anybody can reject anything they feel like.

  • Eneeoh-PGOEneeoh-PGO Posts: 468 ✭✭✭✭

    The seasoned Wayfarers are also easily confused on the definition of mass-production.

    We get the same tired misstatements repeated ad nauseum.

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