When is a named trail marker NOT a named trail marker ?
MzKiwiBling-ING
Posts: 3 ✭✭
The criteria states:
Trailheads, trail markers, mile/distance markers, etc. - Acceptable, if they have a trail name on them. Simple mile markers along a trail with nothing other than a number should be rejected.
So recently with the U.K. on lockdown we’re seeing an influx of trail markers submitted when I guess people are using their daily exercise to explore the local area. The only thing is most are not named trail markers and are the generic public footpath /bridleways/ restricted byways and permissive paths!!
Were even starting to see an influx of Fake trail markers and photo shopped markers!,
Can you spot the fakes ?!?
Most trail markers in the U.K. are a plastic disk that gets bolted or nailed into public property and with the 2026 deadline Approaching, we have to have all our public footpaths mapped on the official documentation or we loose the right of way .
A lot of walking groups are mapping and marking long distance walks/ trails with disks and also stickers of named trails that follow the same route as the public right of way.
So is a sticker placed on public property the same as the plastic disk ? Can a sticker of a named trail be accepted as a trail marker the same as a plastic disk . They both advertise the direction of the named trail .
Answers
Maybe send a copy to niantic the people who pre reviewed nominations. These are the type of markers that I was getting the 3 choices of what best matches the Marker. When I straight rejected them my rating went down.
If the people who are reviewing this before it goes into the system do not know what hope have we got.
Of those photos the Ardsley Rambles looks like it could be considered (depending on the rest of the submission). I can't read the orange sticker type on the very first one - a lot of councils and other bodies (e.g. Via Francigena) are moving to vinyl stickers where there's an existing metal post for cost reasons - some reviewers will consider them temporary, although their average lifespan is around 5-7 years. Most of the photos look like generic waymarkers without a trail name, which I'd reject. The dodgy TransPennine Way one is interestingly located considering where the Pennines are!
The Ardsley Rambles is actually a fake marker.
If you look closely the Ardsley Rambles ones are the same disc. It could be fake or stolen and they've taken it for a walk.
Don't throw the baby (legitimate sticker-type markers for named trails) out with the bathwater (fakes and unnamed trails).
What Niantic is doing is actually doing what they tell us NOT TO DO and that is review an area we do not have any knowledge of!
We've been talking about this in UK Wayfarer chats and we've come to a conclusion that Niantic should NEVER PRE-APPROVE submissions and only pre-reject. Why? There is a reason submissions are reviewed by multiple people and not just one person. Niantic might pre-approve submission we discover are screenshots, or car photos, or completely fake! But because we see this and they might not, we suffer for it. Pre-rejecting subs will usually be for more obvious reasons (e.g. trees or generic signs) and would hopefully be less likely to cause this mismatch in reviewing.
What we actually don't know is whether "new noob reviewers" aren't rating correctly. They 1* whatever is acceptable and seem to vote through things that should be rejected.
The argument about a public right of way (which a lot of these are) is the same as Niantic having little understanding of UK housing. If you don't understand it the best thing to do would be ask a Vanguard who does!
Honestly, I would like if @NianticCasey-ING could pass this observation onto the Wayfarer Team and see what they think. We don't know what's causing our ratings to drop and it might not even be pre-approvals, but this is one of the things where having one person (unit, entity etc) essentially decide whether an object should be a wayspot is wrong.
Vinyl stickers should be considered valid nominations as they are long life, placed on named trails by the council and are no different from the plastic discs.
I still think there's been a misinterpretation of the guidance photo. The given one by Niantic is a walk through a park following some eucalyptus trees, it's lower in value than a standard council right of way arrow, which can be for quite long trails. It's been interpreted as meaning only long distance walks are valid.
They are a step up from the mass produced footpath finger posts.
I wonder whether more people should consider rural areas where these exist and are a good example of local points of interest. As valid as a city full of art mosaic tiles which I've seen or the other multitude of POIs that exist there.
I've not seen any obvious pre-approvals for the UK. Are we positive they're using them for waymarkers?
Well spotted. One of the two photos might be the original marker - the gate seems to have the same blue paint showing through.
Looks genuine, just rellocated.
If you're reviewing that area you will have seen the exact same paint damage many times. It's either Photoshop, or someone's stolen the disc and is temporarily nailing it in to anything they want to turn into a waypoint.
We need more serious sanctions for this kind of abuse.
@Qwizical-ING I assume niantic have started pre approving as well as pre rejecting because of that thing a couple of weeks back where people were mass rejecting to get agreements, if they keep the pre approved ones in it will kick that out
Whilst you are send them over also send these that are "apparently" trails. Lots of these been in reviewing ones said there are 1000s of these in the supporting statement.
I'll accept the UK millennium mileposts for the national cycle routes as works of art/sculpture, but in general I don't think cycle route markers meet the criteria.
@NianticCasey-ING Would it be possible to have a ruling on whether the trails criteria is limited to walking trails, or whether cycle routes are eligible?
I do believe that casey has already said they are not in opr before it went to wayfarer
Thanks - I can't find it.