"Military Base" clarification
CopperChick-PGO Posts: 163 ✭✭✭
I am confused about submissions not being permitted at military bases. I see nominations for living areas of bases and am not sure if they qualify. Descriptions will say things like "for military and their families" so the area is obviously military housing. Is it that nominations are not permitted on the actual working base and that areas where families live and shop qualify? Or is anything base related off limits?
I understand that it is a public place for the families of these soldiers and if the indication meets the other criteria it should be approved.
So the military base would generally be the operational zones are restricted areas of the base. You should also avoid trying to place stops at any checkpoints near those zones as. I believe niantic has it zoned in most bases that even if you did nominate something in a restricted area it wont appear its basically a big blocked cell
the living area of the base is perfectly fine to place nominations as it is a residential area and is also accessible to civilians(non military people) that live in the town/city
There was en extensive discussion here :
Unless I'm wrong, the current position of Niantic about military bases are : if the nomination is inside a military base, whether or not it's an operational/restricted zone or it's a social/housing/family area, it's not eligible and should be rejected based on the "Location obstructs the driveways of emergency services or may interfere with the operations of fire stations, police stations, hospitals, military bases, industrial sites, power plants, or air traffic control towers" criteria.
However, old wayspots are grandfathered and may remain in game unless a format removal request is made by the base commander (through the removal request form) of if it clearly obstruct emergency or military base operations.
Here is a previous post I made about military bases :
Also this :
This is the conversation I saw that led me to believe nothing on a military base should approved. But I was seeing points of interest in areas the submitter described as for military families. I guess my problem is I have no clue what the outline of a military base would be. I live near Luke Air Force base in Phoenix and used to live only a few miles away. I am well aware that Luke has a defined boundary and checkpoints, and that inside that checkpoint area there are living areas for soldiers, but not generally families. Outside of the base there is a lot of housing that is not exclusively for military families, but I bet it is mostly military families. So at least for Luke I would know where the base ends. But I am not that familiar with any other base so I have no clue where the checkpoints would be to get onto the base, which is where I would consider nominations to be off-limits.
I would agree with you. In my mind who ever is doing the nominations should have a general understanding of there local area to start with which will help them understand where they can and can’t put nominations
Here is a good example. I got this 5* submission - I had planned to give it 5* across the board ... until I went to look at street view.
It is fabulous, I love it ... but
This leads me to believe it is within the area of the base that is guarded at entries, so not in a living area. There are definitely points in the games there, just not sure if there should be. I will give this submission 3* because I just am not positive about the rules in this case.
@NianticGiffard last word before the refresh was that anything inside military bases was ineligible... Despite this, nominations continue to get approved in residential areas of military bases. Are these areas that don't interfere with military operations allowed?
This is incorrect. I was actually born in Phoenix and spent the first year of my life on Luke. It's not only "soldiers" on US AFB... Families and retirees live on base too.
They don't have street view on base for the same reason you don't have street view in rural areas or gated communities/apartment complexes/business areas. The street view car couldn't get there. Housing is housing and playgrounds parks etc should be acceptable.
Here's our stand on it, there are no changes from our previous clarification on Military bases: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/32414/#Comment_32414
Note: Please check the updated clarification on this topic below.
just to make 100% certain, this still includes all portions of bases yes? including residential?
One of my biggest complaints about wayfarer is the inconsistency between “approval” and “removal” criteria.
Very specifically, sometimes a NEW wayspot is approved despite not meeting the criteria. Yet when flagged for removal, staff tends to lean on the “does not meet removal criteria” more than “yup you’re right, wayfarer reviewers done goofed”.
So when a NEW wayspot shows up on a military base, for example, they tend not to remove it because it’s not the base staff asking for its removal. This feels VERY wrong to me.
If this is your offical stand on it then why weren't the criteria guidlines updated with the refresh later that year ?
As it is what you have written here is still in contrast to the official reviewing guidlines on the Wayfarer site which says only to reject if it interferes with the operation of a military base.
Seeing as bits to the guidelines were removed and added for the refresh surely it would have just taken a moment to amened those guidelines as well.
However it seems that no one at Niantic has been capable of doing that FOR YEARS SINCE THIS WAS FIRST CLARIFIED IN DECEMBER 2017
We are talking almost 4 years and still no one can be bothered to amend the guidelines.
So yet again there is absolutely no consistency with Niantic, lets say one thing on here, but lets put something totally different in the guidelines
I agree with your complaint.
This discrepancy between the criteria for removal and rejection is the main cause of confusion for the applicant, and the reviewers.
Also, base commanders from multiple nations, government ministries, and base commanders have notified Niantic of removal requests for what has already become a wayspot on military base property.
But for some reason, Niantic is ignoring the removal requests.
They may say it's because they don't report them in their own format, but the government and base commanders also report them according to their own format.
It is very alarming.
Can an official specific criteria page be made on the Wayfarer website for the many clarifications/directives that come up on random threads in this forum?
It sounds like the community is looking for a binary response to this; is a thing in or out, but with our last Criteria refresh we wanted to be clearer that community mapping decisions aren’t always binary. One shouldn’t reject/disqualify something based on the category alone. In other words, don’t judge a book by it’s cover. Your idea isn’t lost on us though, and we’ll think again on how to redesign this page and content. One thought we have is that the concept of ‘acceptance’ and ‘rejection’ criteria is not helpful. If we want to work toward a feedback culture, these should really be ‘contribution guidelines’ (except for the truly abusive cases of course!).
@NianticTintino this is one of those pesky clarifications that keeps getting brought up on the Wayforum but has NEVER been published to the reviewing criteria pages, despite it being the consistent response for almost 4 years.
We aren't asking for all criteria statements to be pushed, we aren't always asking for a binary statement, but are ARE asking for Niantic to follow through when they claim they'll update criteria and to make that guidance clear. Private residential property, school grounds, military bases: these have traditionally been
binarystrictly NO, but recent clarifications have implied easing up on these. Can you please comment on some of these to reduce reviewer conflict?
Have you lived/been on on a US military base before???
IDK why you'd disagree with my statement that military bases have families and retirees living on base? Also I really have lived on Luke and was born in that area soooooo... Those are the facts.
Who make street view? Do you mean Photospheres?
Yeah, so under the original argument. I could make photospheres on a US military base and upload them. Because I have a pass to get on base, also my brother could since he's under 21 and still has a dependent ID, also other members of my family who still live on base.
This is a discussion that has been repeated many times, but we already have an official answer.
Wayspot applications on military base property will be promptly denied.
That's the deal.
Hopefully, this will be clearly posted, and Niantic will remove existing Wayspots on military bases so that there will be no misunderstanding in the future.
"Hopefully ... Niantic will remove existing Wayspots on military bases so that there will be no misunderstanding in the future".
That's not acceptable. (And a post I saw arguing this was the first reason I got into this heated argument about military bases... People who have no clue what a military base in the US is basically trying to get what amounts to a whole town's waypoints removed and discriminating against military families)
No one is discriminating against military families in the slightest thats pure hyperbole.
Comes across that way when @tp235-ING and others are asking for all wayspots to be removed from bases (and in PoGo all spawns are blocked). You live on base you can't play any Niantic games???
It is not right for you to assume that I am discriminating against you or the military.
The grounds of a military base are a sensitive area for governments, and for that reason, civilians are generally not allowed on the premises.
And even if there are areas where military families live on the grounds, like in the U.S., they are treated in the same way.
It is also true that governments and base commanders are requesting that Wayspot be removed from military base premises.
This is not discrimination.
It is a distinction in society.
It comes across as that (to me), since people are arguing they need to be all removed and clearly have no association with the military and have never lived on a base.
Random civilians cannot wander on base correct, but family and friends of people who live on base are able to receive a guest pass to get on base for a day, week, month, etc. Also civilians do work on base too.
If you have a passenger/s in your car they can come on base as long as the driver has a military ID or pass.
The grounds of a military base are a sensitive area for governments - Not the family areas, not recreational areas, not most of the areas. I've lived on many many bases. Most bases as least ½ if not more are normal residential/recreational areas. I can't remember when the full conversion happened, but all housing on US military bases is built and managed by a civilian company, they are privatized housing now and they come on base weekly to do landscaping, maintenance, etc.
Existing wayspots on bases are not an issue... My father was the commander of multiple bases, never came up.
I recently visited family on base and its terrible, nothing spawns in PoGo, and theres little wayspots in general because even the surrounding town is fairly barren.
You can complain to Niantic.
Telling me will not change my opinion.
Fair enough, but saying that all existing wayspots should be removed isn't cool
Also Niantic totally avoided the question during the last AMA... Even though it was in the top 15 and instead they answered less popular questions. So that's awesome.
dude. You got the answer. Its not the one you want. But its the answer. Just let this whole military base nomination thing be put to rest 🤦🏻
Military bases are safe 😂
Military bases are a liability at worst and a headache at best. It's easiest for Niantic to say no, and that's what they do.