September AMA - Discussion

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Comments

  • exemok-PGOexemok-PGO Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    Also me see answers without answers? Neither question has an answer. A lot of water and no answers at all. 146% disappointed in this AMA.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I didn't ever meant that your nominations were not good. We know that there's a huge number of valid nominations that are rejected and I was stating that they have said that there's something in the works to address that

    There's lots of people posting in the forums about their perfect nominations that aren't able to handle any feedback that don't agree with them and forums are a very hard way to convey the proper tone.

    I get the impression that you understood my reply as some kind of attack when I was just trying to being helpful, so that reinforces my statements that for people that express "Sometimes my tendency for rigid thinking has me getting very very cranky/depressed about a rejected poi", this forum might not be the best way to handle such issues.

  • BochumJules-PGOBochumJules-PGO Posts: 474 ✭✭✭✭
  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Still nothing forthcoming on any "Reviewer Feedback" in any way. I would like to improve my overall %ag rating, but it's hard to do if I don't know what nominations I am reviewing "incorrectly".

  • PlutoIsSad-PGOPlutoIsSad-PGO Posts: 184 ✭✭✭

    #2 Upgrades = rejection is 100% true when people in large urban areas with cool things to review are suddenly shown some rural and countryside wayspot nominations.

    @NianticTintino read your own response to #11 to see why Upgrade rejection IS true.

    ***From #11 "When it comes to the 1 year lock, we have this in place to ensure folks aren’t reviewing in areas they are not familiar with, eliminating the community relevance of a location which would make it interesting to them but not others.***

    The wow factor of a shiny bell in an upscale or cool area in Tokyo that does nothing but look nice in the area makes rustic but actual, used every day bells in the country look boring. INSTANT rejection probably without even reading the supporting information. City reviewers don't have any idea of the local culture and community of rural areas.

    I believe that Upgrade rejection is especially real when urban reviewers get rural nominations. Urban nomination upgrades getting urban reviewers have more chance to succeed because they are probably like minded about what they see.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So I know I'm an outlier, but for me #11. When it comes to the 1 year lock, we have this in place to ensure folks aren’t reviewing in areas they are not familiar with, eliminating the community relevance of a location which would make it interesting to them but not others. 

    I was forced to pick a hometown location due to participating in the Russia Challenge... I didn't have one set and didn't want one set because I don't have a hometown. I am not familiar with anywhere and I constantly move to different states. I set my bonus location to my current area because I had just moved here, and 1yr is at least a lease term.

    But I am forced to have a hometown location in an area I may never visit or live again in for many many years because I wasn't going to pick my current temporary location (bonus) and I wasn't going to leave it in Russia...

  • Zireka-INGZireka-ING Posts: 17 ✭✭

    @NianticTintino Gracias a estos AMA nos han quedado claro un par de cosas.

    • es que no sabéis como funciona vuestro sistema, ya que la comunidad os esta explicando día tras día que el sistema no funciona como creéis ya que se rechazan sistemáticamente propuestas válidas por razones falsas y ya no solo eso, si no que os atrevéis a decir que la comunidad se está equivocando cuando dice que puntuar un apartado de una propuesta con 1* y 2* implica que esa propuesta será rechazada y más aún, cuando os estamos mostrando los correos que nos están llegando y se ve perfectamente que se nos ha rechazado la propuesta por esa razone ya que si no fuera ese un motivo de rechazado como acabáis de afirmar, no aparecería esa razón de rechazo en nuestros correos.
    • No habéis aclarado ninguna pregunta y ya no solo con una respuesta clara y directa, si no que os habéis limitado a decir que estáis "trabajando en ello", "Estáis mirándolo" etc.. Y que sobre todo todo en la pregunta relacionada con las mejoras (que para mi era bastante importante para que aumente el número de revisores), os habéis limitado ha decir que la comunidad está mintiendo respecto a que eso no está pasando con las mejoras, aunque día tras día se esta viendo en el foro que es un problema muy serio y que esta empezando a quemar a mucha gente, haciendo que esa gente esté dejando de valorar nuevas propuestas porque conseguir una nueva mejora no le conviene si quiere que sus propuestas, tengan la mínima posibilidad de llegar a buen puerto.
    • Todos esperábamos una aclaración de los criterios que hay actualmente, que niantic dijera claramente que entra en cada criterio de rechazo y en cambio, seguimos igual que hasta ahora y que cada revisor siga su propio criterio (criterio que como todos estamos siendo testigos, se basa en un criterio individual y "estricto" de cada revisor, que tiene la particularidad de que en caso de la mas mínima duda, se rechace la propuesta, aunque sea una propuesta válida que cumple con las normas "amplias" que tiene niantic. Haciendo que, te acabes quemando con la comunidad de revisores, cuando la culpa la tiene Niantic. Y eso, sumado también a que las mejoras no te valen hoy en día para nada, ya que está más que demostrado que meter una mejora a una propuesta significa que te la van a rechazar, hace que me pregunte si soy el único que viendo como funciona actualmente el sistema y en particular gran parte de la comunidad de revisores que en vez de ir a ayudar a la comunidad a sacar propuestas, se dedican a evaluar según su más estricto criterio, haciendo que tengamos los problemas que tenemos, si realmente merece la pena valorar propuestas. Y yo, viendo estos AMA, viendo también que niantic no hace nada para arreglar estos problemas y viendo que la comunidad esta dividida entre los revisores que se unieron a este proyecto para ayudar a otros jugadores a sacar mas portales/paradas que es al fin y al cabo el objetivo de este proyecto, y los "revisores de hierro" que valoran según su más estricto criterio, olvidando alguna veces, que las normas de niantic son amplias y que no cubren todo los casos, haciendo que porque tu piensen que algo se tiene que rechazar porque según tú criterio, entra en cierta categoría de rechazo, aunque Niantic no lo haya especificado, hacen que por lo menos a mi, se me hayan quitado las ganas de valorar valorar ni una propuesta mas y sé que eso perjudica en los tiempos de espera de una propuesta, pero el sistema debe cambiar y sobre todo los "revisores de hierro" deben desaparecer si queremos que valorar vuelva a ser divertido y que anime a mas jugadores a valorar.
    • Seguramente esto sea una opinión impopular, pero creo que es una opinión que refleja claramente los problemas actuales del sistema.
  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This might not be helpful to you, but just in case:

    If you don't want to set a hometown because you don't want to keep on getting nominations from a fixed place forever, you could set it in the middle of the ocean.

  • TrevorAlan-PGOTrevorAlan-PGO Posts: 839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    HA, okay thats funny. I'll keep that in mind when/if we get another challenge that we set our hometown location again.

  • Fortnite290-INGFortnite290-ING Posts: 161 ✭✭✭

    Will there be a discussion thread to report abusive areas? To exist a cleaner game created by community mess?

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 966 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When will Niantic start to Look for Bad reviewing and punish the people that constantly Vote against Niantics Rulebook?

    Our team continuously reviews and updates policy on how to deal with bad behavior and breaking Niantics Terms of Service. Niantic is also actively looking into improved processes for community support across all Niantic products, so that we continue to work together to keep the community safe, welcoming, and encouraging.  

    What is being done to address the number of low-quality wayspots and wayspots that do not meet the acceptance criteria (for both old and newly approved ones)?

    Along the same lines as the other questions and what’s been shared in the community, we are looking at improving the onboarding process which we hope will improve the quality of each nomination. Furthermore, next year we hope to cultivate a culture of feedback through improved features in the review process and now within the Wayfarer Community. When it comes to those that have already been accepted, these can be caught through edits and the upcoming abuse reporting process.

    For questions 12 and 13 - how do these responses deal with the Foursquare dump, the internally-reviewed acceptances of low-quality nominations, and the unexplained rejections of perfectly valid candidates? Most of the most egregious acts degrading the overall quality of the database have been at the hands of Niantic internals. What quality assurance processes do you have in place for the internal team?

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 254 ✭✭✭✭

    But you weren't helpful you were 'communicate better'. It was not your place to tell me that. If I want advice on a submission I will ask. My communication was fine. Single mum, a lot on, quick post, presenting a generalised problem and a personal anecdote. Didn't need to write a hi powered highly effective piece of communication.


    Maybe I could have written:

    Not the only person getting very overwhelmed by wayfarer. It really is such a wobbly process. So hit and miss. For folk that strongly prefer to have a well defined set of rules to follow to get a predictable result wayfarer is horrific.

    I've not been able to engage with wayfarer to the level I want to. [ ...she says .... Having created over 200 portals ... in 3 cities ... I've done a lot of work to be part of the system. ]

    a true believer ... The people need the POI... The pogo people are still missing plenty of POI in the area... POIs that have been on my list for years.

    I want Niantic to help me and others like me out so it's easier to get the job done. Is there any work being done on this? "

    PS I have time to respond to you because currently at my mum's after my house was burgled. And I have had this moment spare to engage in a bit of useless arguing with someone on the internet 😂.

  • Sofomas-PGOSofomas-PGO Posts: 8 ✭✭✭

    I wonder if the ratings of each reviewer affect the voting process. For example if the voting of a "Great" reviewer has greater impact on the voting procedure than a "Good" reviewer.

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That’s the theory. That the higher rating the reviewer has carries more “weight” but I don’t believe it’s ever been confirmed.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm sorry if you think that I was trying to argue with you.

    I wish you all the best and from now on I will ignore anything that you post to prevent any further misunderstanding.

  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Niantic has said that different people's reviews are weighed differently, on a sliding scale (not just 4 possibilities). And when you're new, your vote doesn't weigh as much, while you build your stats. Not just agreements, but that you consider each category separately. This is one of the few areas Niantic has actually told us about the process.

  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not the only person getting very overwhelmed by wayfarer. It really is such a wobbly process. So hit and miss. For folk that strongly prefer to have a well defined set of rules to follow to get a predictable result wayfarer is horrific.

    This is worth repeating. Not everyone has an easy-peasy, how is the wind blowing, personality. Some people are more like accountants, and want everything to add up. They want structure in their lives, and in nominating/reviewing waypoints. So, it's stressful to not have a formula for what makes a good wayspot. These people (who perhaps care the most) get frustrated and leave.

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MargariteDVille-ING

    >>Not just agreements, but that you consider each category separately.

    Very familiar with the comment made previously linking a weighting to your grading, But when did they say this?

    Curious as I haven’t heard this and am struggling to imagine how it would be possible.

  • peardrop-INGpeardrop-ING Posts: 34 ✭✭
    edited October 2021

    Weighting was mentioned in the pre-2020 AMAs - e.g. July 17, 2017:

    W2Q17: +Celso González: Can you confirm that votes from both factions are needed to accept/reject a portal on OPR?

    W2A17: The review system has a lot of inputs and some are dynamically weighted. I'd avoid trying to rig the system because it will be obvious and abuse will likely result in loss of access or your actions will simply carry no weight.


    Oct 30, 2017:

    W17Q9: Thomas Scott (StallionNZ) - Do mark as duplicate get higher weightings in OPR and if so Is there any protection against agents using the mark as duplicate to deny legitimate submissions?

    A9: I'll be honest, I don't know. I'm not privy to that sort of information.


    Dec 20, 2017:

    W19Q25: Brent Hollett (Perringaiden) - How many reviewers on average does a portal take, and how does reviewer weightings affect it?

    A25: This information is highly classified.


    Edit: there were also 10ish questions specifically on Poor rating between 2017 and 2018

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I saw more recent comments last year from Casey relating to if your status was poor the weighting would be low. But nothing about individual categories and things may well have changed from 2017

  • peardrop-INGpeardrop-ING Posts: 34 ✭✭

    Fair - I haven't been able to find the recent comments from Casey, but the general chat from old AMAs was that there was a weighting but they won't give specific details because players will game it.

    It makes sense to me that the weightings are graded both based on reviewer rating (great> poor) and individual category rating (e.g. accurate location > high cultural importance as a made-up example)... plus other things we may not even be aware of and that likely change over time

  • WhiteRavenOs-PGOWhiteRavenOs-PGO Posts: 30 ✭✭

    Additionally Waypoints submitted within the "review-radius" of the borders of an other country seem to get rejected at a much higher rate when upgraded, presumably because the number of reviewers who don´t speak the language or know about the local culture and therefore give bad rewievs instead of skipping, giving 3* or using google translate.

    As a Wayfinder from nordwest-Germany i get to review nominations from the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Denmark, and France. I don´t speak any of thier languages and most reviews from there don´t speak german.

    Sadly skipping foreign nomination is not always possibile because of the limit of skips. Probaby 1/4 of all nominations i get to review are non-german.

  • Fortnite290-INGFortnite290-ING Posts: 161 ✭✭✭

    https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/23917/how-much-stress-for-nothing#latest One question, because there is urban art and graffiti on external walls, gates, fences and among others, knowing that these types come in as Private/Private Residence or if the answer is similar to "They are eligible, only if located on exterior walls or other things", because we don't know that and what they are eligible for outside parts of a private home or residence ?

  • aleprj-INGaleprj-ING Posts: 562 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If they are in the walls/fences (even on the outside) they are not eligible.

    Until recently (a few days ago), the understanding was that even if it was in the sidewalk/easements in front of the house it would still be ineligible, but Niantic has now said that the sidewalk/easements are ok.

  • I miss a rejection criteria "insufficient information". I expect in the additional photo, the surroundings are made clear INCLUDING the nominated waypoint. If there is no context of the surroundings, you cannot assess safety nor can you check with the street view/sat view/360. If the nominated waypoint is not in the picture, it could be taken on a different location (misuse...).

    I must have rejected eligible nominations because of this lack of information... it would be nice if we could select "insufficient information in the surrounding picture" as a rejection criteria to give this feedback.

  • C0LERBEAR120-PGOC0LERBEAR120-PGO Posts: 2 ✭✭

    I had a quick question,

    Over the last week, my colleagues and I have had eligible nominations not go through in GO that have had ample room to force a Pokéstop.

    Speaking with other players in the US that are experiencing the same thing; is have to do with something on the backend of Wayfarer?


    Any input is appreciated, as I would like to continue to build my community in accordance to Wayfarer guidelines.


    Cheers.

  • HankWolfman-PGOHankWolfman-PGO Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The sync between the database and Pokémon Go hasn't been working properly for most of the past several days, that's why.

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