Upcoming Wayfarer 4.3 Updates - Discussion
You spoke and we listened! I’m very excited to share that we’ll be shipping some new updates with Wayfarer 4.3 next week and hope they add to your Wayfarer experience. Check out the updates below for more information!
Unlimited Quiz Attempts
We’re letting new users attempt the quiz an unlimited number of times with a 15min cooldown period in between - enough time for you to revisit the Criteria pages. We felt it was a shame to limit the attempts and have folks never return back. We believe that practice makes perfect! For those who have already taken the quiz and failed it twice, they will also be able to retake the quiz an unlimited number of times.
Nominations In Review by Niantic
Nominations that are in review by Niantic will no longer disappear from your Nominations page. Your nominations will be displayed and labeled as being IN VOTING by Niantic, with a Niantic logo badge.
We’ll display the top two rejection reasons your rejected nominations received - these are based on the rejection reasons noted by your nominations’ reviewers. We heard your feedback about the upcoming email changes and wanted to get this done before we launched the new emails.
Again, we hope you’re as excited as we are to ship these updates! Excited to hear how they improve your Wayfarer experience! Original post HERE!
I have to say I think unlimited quiz attempts with such a short cooldown is not a good way forward unless the quiz is being changed significantly. But do what you need to I guess.
Unlimited Quiz Attempts
IDK how I feel about this... I think unlimited might be fine for a submitters test, since I know the goal is likely to have as many submissions as possible, but I (and many others) think the quiz is easy anyways, and makes sense, so do we really want people who fail it 16 times to get in and start "reviewing"?
Nominations In Review by Niantic
We asked for everyone to have to take the quiz, this was a very popular comment and received a number of replies in favor.
We asked for better education (have been asking for years) and we get a slow ****.
We asked for a large number of pretty simple clarifications (some promised years back and not delivered).
When you say things like "You spoke and we listened" who are you referring to?
I am for real not okay with the unlimited quiz attempts. It is a test for a reason, people can study and learn.
Breaking it down;
Why even bother having a quiz/entry gate at this point then? I think more than two attempts was reasonable but unlimited…
I like this. Will it also show ones that were done by Niantic previously?
Sounds good. When is it going live?
I guess dr ip is a censored word?
I'm really not sure that a "keep trying till you get it, either by complete chance or by actual understanding, who knows!" is the best approach for the topic of quiz attempts.
Anyway, speaking of updates, what about the new abuse reporting system? October is long over. (So is May.)
THIS!!!!! Please Niantic take the time to actually understand what we are asking for, not what you think we want. If you want to implement something fine, but don't blame us.
Yeah, I can understand having unlimited quiz attempts, but 15 minutes is too short. The quiz is already very easy, and the players who fail it are most likely just going to try again and again until, by chance, they pass. Without having learned anything from it.
It might be more helpful for the failed quiz to have a review at the end detailing what answers you got right and wrong. Actual education about how to apply the criteria n'at. And if the cooldown period has to be short, make it like a week or a day. Something so that people aren't able to just brute force through it.
When can we expect the criteria on the Wayfarer Help page to be updated with regards to this thread?
Repeat the test an unlimited number of times ?! This is a big mistake!
I am aware that we need more evaluators, but the test is so simple! Those who fail this test are simply unable to read and understand the rules! Such people should not be allowed to rate! A limited number of attempts have already been correct!
This! We need people to understand why they failed the quiz, and what they didn’t understand the first time. Granted that might make it easier for people to just answer it correctly and then review against that criteria…
You spoke and we listened!
How many people did you see asking for unlimited attempts to perform a basic test?
I saw far more people requesting fixes for the test, many, many more requests.
Where are those fixes and improvements for the test?
Unlimited Quiz Attempts <--- People are just gonna bruteforce the answers. Seriously, make it 2-3 attempts on first try and then a monthly thing or so. Unlimited is just not good.
Why only the top 2 rejection reasons? Why not all?
I am a bit shocked. There already are lots of reviewers that don't really know the criteria and now people that take it even less serious will start to trial-and-error the test. Will be even harder to get good candidates through. I think how it was before, it worked good.
At least change the cooldown to 1 month or something like that so the people might look into the criteria properly.
The Wayfarer test is very easy, and 15 minutes cooldown is unreasonably short because people will just brute-force it. I personally don't mind getting more attempts, but the current, long cooldown should persist.
Getting "missing" nominations back is a great step forward that I've been looking forward to. I agree with @PkmnTrainerJ-ING, having the indicator also displayed for previously accepted Niantic-reviewed nominations would be a nice-to-have, at least for any nominations that haven't yet (as of now) reached a final decision, going forward.
Rejection reasons on the Wayfarer site is something I'm also looking forward to, but it'd be nice if we get the top three, like we currently get in the emails.
So you want to unleash people who are too comfortable, too lazy, or too... to spend a few minutes on the guidelines and then on the test, over and over again on wayfarer?
Do you really think that this will increase the quality?
Potential wayspots are currently already rejected with the most impossible reasons, which are so wrongly chosen that head > table or head > wall becomes the main movement for submitters, even before movement or "outdoor recreation".
"Unlimited Quiz Attempts
We’re letting new users attempt the quiz an unlimited number of times with a 15min cooldown period in between - enough time for you to revisit the Criteria pages. We felt it was a shame to limit the attempts and have folks never return back. We believe that practice makes perfect! For those who have already taken the quiz and failed it twice, they will also be able to retake the quiz an unlimited number of times."
🤦🏻♂️ Are you serious??? WHO at Niantic comes up with such an idea ??? Instead of sifting out people who have no connection or interest in improving the game interface, are you now giving even more people the opportunity to break Wayfarer? If I only have to wait 15 minutes, no one will bother. Where's the challenge of really dealing with Wayfarer and the criteria if I don't get any consequences anyway !? It's starting to get the feeling that you at Niantic are deliberately causing problems to create even more resentment in the community. Seriously what is that supposed to mean? What should be the thought and gain with this decision? finally answers questions. Or is that the US-American mentality of making wrong decisions !?
Agreed completely. What is even the point of having a quiz in that case?
Wow, this is actually a really good update. The quiz attempts should be accompanied by explanations of what went wrong, and maybe the cooldown adjusted according to some of the other ideas to motivate people to read criteria more closely. But yeah, 2 attempts and then a lifetime ban was hilariously nonsensical. Now people won't need to cheat at the drop of a hat just to avoid it, and they might get more out of it. People who have been making honest efforts to improve things can finally have a chance.
I agree with the comments here that put the emphasis on the education part.
I don’t feel strongly about a 15 min cooldown although 1 a day sounds a better balance.
Like the idea about the Niantic reviews……
BUT and this is vital @NianticTintino we know that the disappear/reappear is what triggered the still unsolved (as far as I know) problem with sync to Ingress in particular. Still missing a number of keys, AP and credits for discovery.
So will this fix this?
Has it been throughly tested that it this won’t introduce a new bug? Sorry but long experience means I have been bitten more than once by unplanned Niantic bugs.
And just to clarify- Will the rejection reasons solely be generated from 1* in the first box?
While I like the idea that you're giving people more attempts to pass, a 15 minute cooldown between attempts is WAY too short. At that point, you're just warmly inviting anyone who doesn't actually care about the criteria or reading basic guidelines to brute force their way into reviewing. The cooldown should be at least a month or two.
Everything else mentioned sounds good.
Is there going to be any changed logic in this quiz? Enhanced randomization, or re-attempts drilling down into the areas with the most flaws? What feedback will each submitter get after passing - will they see what questions they missed and be redirected to additional training material? Will people failing the test be simply told they failed, or will they be told they failed because they missed too many points in a certain area (ensuring safe pedestrian access, eligibility criteria, etc.) or will each test-taker be told they failed questions 4, 7, and 8 with the exact same quiz presented in the re-attempts? Basically, even if they just retry once a day, the worst reviewer in the world is eventually going to pass in a matter of time. Make the quiz longer, make the cooldowns reasonable (give people time to go out and look at real-world candidates, talk to local communities, join a FB or Discord group, or make some sort of concerted effort to learn), and test all submitters as well as reviewers.
And I agree with the majority of posters here. We talked, you listened, sure - but these events were unrelated. We talked (to the wall) and you listened (to whatever was decided in the semi-annual "What Customers Want" conference call (lunch provided)).
It's probably to reduce the chance of the submitter being confused when they get a rejection email and a reviewer accidentally ****-fingers the wrong rejection reason. Reviewers who review on their phone sometimes hit the rejection reason right below the one they're actually trying to tap. There's been a couple times where I accidentally chose "Live Animal" instead of "Other Rejection Criteria" or chose "Private Residence" instead of "Pedestrian Access."
I never heard any player asking for that. I only heard people that didnt read the rules, failed twice the test and then claimed "UUUH THERES SUMTHIN WRONG!!!"
Personally, i dont need people rejecting my contributions, that have failed the test multiple times and then wormed their way thru until they had the drivers license.
ON THE OTHER HAND - we had alot of rejections lately by experienced longtime pals here that say "Uh, this isnt really a posh POI. Let´s reject with threadbare flimsy "skewed picture" or "live animal". It wouldnt get accepted by the other quality reviewers anyway! OFF YOU GO 1*"
It cannot get any worse, can it? CAN IT?
15 minutes. Not MONTHS, which would already be a big, but not unreasonable change from "not at all". That must be a joke, right?
I really struggle to find more than one change to Wayfarer from the last 1.5 years which went in the right direction, addressing legitimate concerns of dedicated and experienced contributors. This is exactly the opposite. Maybe you should stop insulting the people who keep your system going because their patience isn't infinite. The games have an expiration date, too, which you should know after the recent announcements to shut down Catan and HPWU.
15 minutes is ridiculous. I understand you want more reviewers because the queue times are astronomical (mine are measured in years), but just increase it to a day or something.
If I have to wait a day for a new nomination, they can wait a day for a new quiz.
Agree with the general sentiment.
The test, given its multiple-choice responses and some complexities in some questions is not rocket science, but it's also not that easy to select the right answer since it doesn't give feedback if you've gotten a specific one incorrect last time. Since the questions can have up 5 questions each (with some being limited to have 2), in a regular test going blind you would have to select the following, with many questions being borderline similar to each other (yes, it meets criteria vs yes, it is a great place to explore, be social or exercise):
15 minutes is crazy. Why not use the regular 4 hours like the standard cooldown most people get in-between test attempts? Or even the longer 24 hours? Sure, it doesn't take 4 hours to read through all the criteria, but it might only take 15 minutes since it's basic and all laid out in the bare. But then everyone knows that the real Wayfarer is different from the curated Wayfarer test. Locations are moved instead of 3-starred. Playgrounds are weirdly rejected. Objects that look like they don't have pedestrian access in the middle of roundabouts are approved anyway.
Plus anyone who brute-forces the test, but still votes against the general tide of the Wayfarer masses will get disagreements galore and see their rating drop to red/poor, and will have a limited impact on their choices and decisions. Unless they do change the tide, then that's a different story. As long as all contributions are gated behind the test like you've mentioned in 4.2, then it's something rather than nothing.