Is it possible to limit the level of access to the Wayfarer forum? (Anti-spam)

tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 782 ✭✭✭✭✭

Dear Wayfarer Team


Recently, I've been seeing a lot of spam accounts that aim to disrupt the discussion on this forum.

Is it not possible to explicitly eliminate such spamming from the beginning?

If it's a forum for each game, it's not appropriate to limit the level as a place for beginners to ask questions.

However, Wayfarer has a clear access level restriction by Niantic.

Considering that it is unlikely that at least one account that started playing today will have an opinion about wayspot, and most of them are someone's multi-account activities, if the access level of Ingress or Pokémon GO can be limited to POI-recommendable level or higher, I would like to see it implemented.

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Comments

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 2,960 Ambassador

    I had this thought, recently. My only concern is blocking people who want to learn before they have access.

    I remember when the Wayforum first launched, there was an active member who was "only" level 38 (this was when you had to be level 40). They contributed to conversations, asked questions, and even gave useful feedback.

    That said, Niantic can possibly set a minimum level requirement that seems appropriate - perhaps level 8 or 9 Ingress and level 35 PoGO.

    At some point they'll need to decide if it's pertinent to grant access to HP:WU, Catan: World Explorers, Transformers: Heavy Metal, Pikmin Bloom and whatever other future endeavors they launch. Maybe that will be part of their Social push.

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What kind of spam are you talking about?

    @BleedBoss-PGO 's accounts that continually spamming in this forum while spreading 'truth'? Or accounts that are spamming likes/dislikes and comments related to Invalid Wayapot reports, especially those from France, Russia, or even Poland? Or something else?

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 782 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gendgi-PGO

    It certainly hurts to lose a future Wayfinder who is honestly trying to work on something like that.

    Well, that doesn't mean that almost no level 1 Ingress agent or Pokémon trainer would be willing to do the same, so it might be a good idea to try to set the player level a bit below your level of accessibility to Wayfarers.


    @patsufredo-PGO

    Recently confirmed and banned by Niantic, in addition to the account you mentioned

    @URWhatUKnow-ING

    @URWhatUKnowBruh-ING

    @UNoTakeCandle-ING

    These are the ones I'm talking about. (They may all be the same man, though.)

    I think there are a few more accounts that are either spam or not clear.

    Also, looking at this forum, there are a lot of players who seem to be calling themselves Pokémon Trainers when their main is Ingress, or Ingress Agents when their main is Pokémon Go, so in the end, the smoothest way to discuss this might be with a certain level of access and a Niantic ID.

  • 3car-ING3car-ING Posts: 191 ✭✭✭

    Well, this forum actually lead me to catch a multi account acting as a PoGo player, in reality which was a backpack account. But better still is to make a bit of a hurdle.

    Forum moderation seems a bit staggered these days.

  • SturmRugerLCR-PGOSturmRugerLCR-PGO Posts: 297 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    The following images are from the comments section of the link above. The comment has now been deleted. Someone used a malicious tool to capture the situation where the name of the person who Disagreed was displayed, and pasted it into the comment box.


    @patsufredo-PGO, your comment is also displayed at the top of the image.


    I was very surprised to see my ID displayed. As a victim in this matter, I demand a thorough investigation of this fraudulent act. The use of such tools makes it impossible to have a smooth discussion in the community.

    We believe that just because this has been removed does not mean that the fraudulent activity has been erased.

    @NianticGiffard


    Post edited by SturmRugerLCR-PGO on
  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The spam accounts of the OP are, indeed, one person, and that person is Bleed Boss. And yeah, his/her/their contributions are generally unhelpful and unpleasant.

    I do agree with the theory that a certain gaming threshold should gate forum posting. I don’t think it should be high; Pogo level 10 or 15 would be enough to demonstrate relevant interest in the subject. I don’t know what the rough equivalent of that would be in Ingress or Pikmin.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 782 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From your opinions, it is generally considered to be a good idea to finish the tutorial.

    In Ingress, it is generally said that once you reach level 8, you are no longer limited and the tutorial is over.

    To be honest, I don't really understand what level is the end of the tutorial for Pokémon GO, but I'm not sure what level it is.

  • MagicalThorn-INGMagicalThorn-ING Posts: 518 ✭✭✭

    Thank you for sharing this information with us.


    I was so surprised that I got a screen capture,

    before deleted that commet by admin.


    Normally, the name of the person who gave the Disagree would not be displayed on this Wayfarer!

    However, He uploaded his screenshot and it shows my and your username there.

    The secrecy of the communication was broken and we name was exposed in public.


    What was even more surprising was what happened afterwards.



    As soon as I voiced my protest about the injustice, the DM Wall was blocked and the settings were changed so that the names of the people who liked the wall were not even shown.

    And the post I submitted to protest is still being ignored.

    The admin did not show any intention to show my post.


    This is a stifling of speech.

    Niantic should defend the victims.


    And using rogue tools is far from the wholesome spirit of Wayfarer!Forums.

    As a victim myself, I would like to see a thorough investigation into this fraudulent activity.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 2,960 Ambassador

    @NianticTintino @NianticGiffard @NianticDanbocat @NianticAtlas

    Pretty sure the intent of this discussion has been met and will soon spiral even further. Please consider ways to implement the OP's suggestion and it's probably best to shut this down, now.

    Thanks.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yikes, this deteriorated rapidly. Why click disagree if one wants to retain absolute privacy? Disagrees can be useful if one has a valid counterpoint to present, but aside from that it's of little value.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 782 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's nice.

    As I recall, Ingres is currently at level 10, which allows for both nomination and review.

    As you say, I think Ingress should be level 8 and above, and Pokémon GO should be level 35 and above with access to the Wayfarer forums.

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, things went escalated dramatically.

    I didn't mention that two individuals, I only said players from some countries when reacted to invalid Wayspot reports. All of you can see for France and Russia cases clearly which lead to faction fights, while for Poland case you may see it by yourself.

    @NianticVK I see you're still working even in weekend, so can you please close this thread down before it'll going any further?

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 782 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SturmRugerLCR-PGO @MagicalThorn-ING

    I have confirmed that post as well.

    I also learned that there is some kind of inappropriate plugin in the vanilla engine forum used here, as I had received similar questions from several people in this forum before that.

    One of the Wayfinders who was asked a similar question was fending off a debate over a difference of opinion, so we think that he was probably using an inappropriate plugin as well.


    It is obvious that such inappropriate use of plugins disrupts proper discussion.

    And that's why I think Niantic closed it as an emergency measure to deal with the situation for the time being.

    https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/25614/wayfarer-wall-deactivation


    But that's only a cop-out, and I also think that Wayfinder should be penalized appropriately for using inappropriate plugins.


    Well, it seems that even the respective teams at Niantic think that there are various problems with the current forums, and some staff members have commented privately about revamping the forums.

    And since Niantic acquired Mayhem, a community platform for gamers, earlier this year, and there is talk of Niantic Chat currently in closed beta testing, it will be revamped in the future.


    And this is a ask, but the topic of this thread is, can we restrict access to certain areas to prevent spam accounts from ruining the discussion? This is the topic of this thread.

    If you want to talk about Wayfinder's use of inappropriate plugins, please create a separate thread for that.

    If there is anything I can do to help, I'll be happy to participate.


    私もその投稿は確認しています。

    また、それ以前、このフォーラムにいる数名から似たような問いかけがありましたので、ここで利用されているバニラエンジンのフォーラムには何らかの不適切なプラグインが存在していることを知りました。

    似た問いかけをされたWayfinderの中には意見の相違で議論をかわしていた方もいましたので、おそらく彼も不適切なプラグインを利用していたのだろうと考えています。


    このような不適切なプラグインの利用は適切な議論を崩壊させることは明白です。

    また、だからこそナイアンティックは火急の措置としてクローズして当面の対策をしたものと考えています。

    でもそれは対処療法にしか過ぎませんし、私は不適切なプラグインを利用していたWayfinderには然るべきペナルティが与えられるべきだとも考えています。


    まあ、ナイアンティックのそれぞれのチームでも現在のフォーラムには様々な問題があると考えているようで、フォーラムの刷新について私的にコメントを出したスタッフもいました。

    そして、ナイアンティックは今年初頭にゲーマー用コミュニティプラットフォームであるMayhemを買収していますし、現在、ナイアンティックチャットがクローズドベータテストをしている話もあるため、将来的には刷新されるでしょう。


    そしてこれはお願いになりますが、このスレッドの議題はスパムアカウントが議論を荒らすのを防止するために、一定のアクセス制限を出来ませんか?というものです。

    Wayfinderが不適切なプラグインを利用していることに対する話はまた別のスレッドを作成しておこなっていただければと思います。

    その際には私にも話せることがあれば参加させていただきます。

  • ftzzghzuhdidu-INGftzzghzuhdidu-ING Posts: 370 ✭✭✭

    It is hilarious to see @SturmRugerLCR-PGO and @MagicalThorn-ING cry and crawl around because of them being exposed for disagreeing with other's post. I remember only a few weeks ago when I asked Giffard exactly about the existence of such a tool, with good reasons. If such a tool could exist. Both of them jumped my message to Giffard out of nowhere, started to sabotage my request by derailing the thread with spam, insulting me and other nonsense. Their toxic behavior led to the shut down of the staff's wall for private messages and my request was never solved or brought anywhere. They have brought down a civilized talk about such a tool in the forums and now they have become themselves a victim of it. Now they are at point zero. I applaud both of you, through your childish behavior you have outplayed yourself.

  • SturmRugerLCR-PGOSturmRugerLCR-PGO Posts: 297 ✭✭✭

    People will give them education, but not cultivation. Troubling opinions will be held that will make them believe that the meaning of cultivation is to solely believe in formulas.

    Antoine Marie Jean-Baptiste Roger, comte de Saint-Exupéry(1900~1944)

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • MagicalThorn-INGMagicalThorn-ING Posts: 518 ✭✭✭

    HI, @tp235-ING .

    I think I would like to try and keep the conversation on the subject you have created.

    Please forgive my rudeness in posting something a little off topic earlier.


    Now.

    Perhaps,Wayfinders are given stars based on the number of posts they make and the number of gets Likes.

    This Forums, however these stars don't seem to mean much.

    This means that there is no practical way to filter out spam accounts based on this.

    Even with one star on Wayfinder, there will always be someone smart enough to say something fruitful and righteous.

    even if that person doesn't know it yet and doesn't show up here.


    Until Niantic ID and other discussion systems are implemented.

    I still think it would be practical to limit spam based on the high levels already obtained by actual Pokémon GO and ingress accounts.

    That way, everyone will understand that they are responsible for what they say, although this should be a given.

    And we are confident that Niantic has the technical capability to implement this.


    In the case of the topic that needs special attention, 

    I suggest that the OP should be able to select "This can only be posted if the commenting Wayfinder level is above a certain level".


    The ingress level of A8 can be reached in 5 to 30 minutes by a user who can use the terrain and items effectively.


    In view of this, I still think that

    The attainment level to allow this particular comment should be limited to users with an ingress level of A16 or A15.

    In terms of the corresponding Pokémon GO level, we suggest limiting it to users with TL40 or TL39 or higher.



    あなたが作成された主題に沿った会話を心がけたいと私は思います。

    少しずれた話を先ほど投稿してしまった非礼をおゆるしください。


    さて。


    Wayfarer!Forumsで投稿数や獲得したGet数などに応じてWayfinderに星が与えられていますが、

    この星の数はあまり意味のないものに思えます。

    それはとりもなおさず、これを基準にしてスパムアカウントを振るいだす方法は現実的ではないということに繋がるでしょう。

    星がひとつのWayfinderであっても、実りある発言を行い、正義の心を胸に抱きながら発言する賢い人物は必ず現れるはずですから。

    いまはまだWayfarer!Forumsの存在をその人物が知らずに、この場に姿を現していないとしても。


    Niantic IDやその他の議論システムが実装されるまでは、

    やはり、ポケモンGOやingressの実際のアカウントで取得済みの高いレベルをもとにしてスパムの制限を行うのが現実的でしょうね。

    そうすれば、これは本来当たり前のことであるはずですが、発言には責任が伴うということを、誰もが理解できるはずです。

    そしてNianticは、それを実装できる技術力を有しているとわたくしは確信しています。



    とくに注意が必要な話題であるケースでは、OPが


    「これはコメントするWayfinderのレベルが一定レベルを超えていないと投稿できない」

    という項目を選択可能にすればよいのではないか、とわたくしは提案します。



    ingressレベルのA8は、5分から30分程度あれば、地形とアイテムを有効に使えるユーザーであればすぐに到達できてしまいますから、

    その点から鑑みるに、やはり、

    この特殊なコメントを許可する到達レベルは、ingressでA16またはA15程度を有しているユーザーに限定するべきでしょう。

    それに見合ったポケモンGOのレベルでいえば、TL40またはTL39以上のユーザーに限定することを提案いたします。





    Dear @NianticGiffard , @NianticVK


    Whenever a subject is brought up that is inconvenient to them, they will call you out and try to close down a thread where a good discussion is taking place.

    We have seen too many instances where you have been called out with a "magic wand" when you did not have to close the scene.


    I implore you to have the eyes and the heart to truly and correctly see what is being said in the moment.



    自分にとって都合が悪い主題を持ち出されると、あなたちを呼びつけて無理やりに

    有意義な議論が交わされているスレッドを閉じようとするものたちが存在しているようです。

    以前にも同様にあなたたちが”魔法のワンド”で呼び出された例を目にしていますが、

    クローズしなくてもよい場面なのに、クローズした例が多すぎました。


    その場で何が会話されているのかを、真に正しく見極める目とハートをお持ちいただけるように、

    わたくしはあなたたちに切望します。

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think I can agree with the spirit of what @MagicalThorn-ING is saying, iff I am interpreting correctly: that access to POST be level-restricted, while access to browse read-only be more open. Such a setup would allow highly-motivated lower-level accounts to absorb some knowledge, while also keeping the forums clear of spam from day-one, recently-spun-up "alt" accounts. I'm more in favor of an overall read-only time period for all members regardless of level (except in the bug report threads), but this might be a good compromise.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In view of this, I still think that

    The attainment level to allow this particular comment should be limited to users with an ingress level of A16 or A15.

    In terms of the corresponding Pokémon GO level, we suggest limiting it to users with TL40 or TL39 or higher.

    Sorry, I did have a follow-up - I think if the Ingress levels are that high, then the Pokemon Go Levels should be much higher to match. Ingress levels are not that easily obtained in most settings, while players of Pokemon Go can obtain a lot of XP just by sitting on the couch opening gifts. It took my over a year to get to Level 40 the first time in 2017: it took me one month to get the same XP under current rules. And I work full-time, and I'm old and slow with grandchildren. If Pokemon Go is limited to Level 39 or 40, then Ingress level 10 or 11 is a decent match. There's only so much one can do with drone-hacks.

  • ftzzghzuhdidu-INGftzzghzuhdidu-ING Posts: 370 ✭✭✭

    You too were there trying to sabotage me @tp235-ING. Ofc I remember you. Do you also remember how you barged in my request unasked, replying in an insulting way, which you kept until the end, and then defended those which used the disagreement tools without you using your head? Only because of your silly vendetta against me?

    https://i.imgur.com/7PCeLGq.png

    I've even explained to you nicely how what you believe was not possible, but you refused to think and instead went on a tantrum to derail my request. And you ended it this way:

    https://i.imgur.com/vmab6pn.png

    You came in to make trouble and left not smarter than before. The irony with you three is delicious. Some would say it's karma.

  • SturmRugerLCR-PGOSturmRugerLCR-PGO Posts: 297 ✭✭✭

    @tp235-ING

    I understand. And I apologize for what may have been off topic.

    I made a comment that I thought was in line with the discussion, but it seems to have been misplaced in terms of content.


    I've created a new thread and am applying for it now.

    The following is what I wrote.


    ⑴That someone was using a rogue tool and showing off the situation by pasting it in the thread.

    ⑵That this malpractice has shaken the community's discussion to its core, and that a thorough investigation is necessary and called for.

    ⑶That I, as a party whose ID has been unfairly exposed, have the right to demand an investigation into the cause of this matter.

    ⑷  I have already posted more than three times about this issue, but my thread has not been displayed at all.

    ⑸I would like to know if the administrators are arbitrarily restricting this (4) post.

  • SturmRugerLCR-PGOSturmRugerLCR-PGO Posts: 297 ✭✭✭

    @tp235-ING

    I understand.

    I apologize for presenting the wrong content.


    I have started a thread as you suggested, and it is currently under application.

    The following is what I am writing.


    ⑴Someone has used a rogue tool to paste the name of a person who has given a Disagree to the discussion as an image.

    ⑵One of the IDs that was wrongfully disclosed in the image was mine.

    ⑶I have the right to request an investigation into this injustice as the aggrieved party.

    ⑷I have tried several times to start a thread on this matter, but it has not shown up at all.

    ⑸I am requesting disclosure of information to see if there has been any arbitrary restriction of discussion by the administrators.


  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 782 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    You can indulge in your fantasies all you want, but please don't confuse the discussion by bringing up topics that are not on the subject.

    It's spam itself.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 782 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's difficult to set the accessibility level.

    As you say, it's much easier to level up than it used to be.

    Perhaps it would be most appropriate to have a level for each room in the forum.

  • ftzzghzuhdidu-INGftzzghzuhdidu-ING Posts: 370 ✭✭✭

    What do you mean? It was not me who started this topic in this thread. MagicalThorn and SturmRuger started derailing this topic the same way they did with mine. They have no sense for decent behavior. And tp235 is not much better, he still talks in insulting ways to me, even after knowing that I was right all along. When I did ask Giffard to take actions against their behavior, after they harassed me on Giffard's wall, do you believe anything happened? patsufredo, there is no reason for you to defend them in any way.

This discussion has been closed.