Forum Moderation

patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 4,215 ✭✭✭✭✭

Consider this thread as the continuation of this thread below, before it'll be closed down next Monday:

And @3car-ING said:

And now we have two main issues:

1. There's still lack of moderation from Niantic staffs in this forum, despite there are numbers of the staff who can be tagged. Tintino, Giffard, and Danbocat are the most frequent seen in this forum, and other staffs like Atlas and VK (mainly in appeals section) as well. This leads to another problem, many users still tag the staffs who doesn't seem to be active in this forum (like @NianticAaron @NianticGray @NianticAndres etc.). Even they still tag @NianticCasey-ING who already left this forum long ago, pretending he's still in this forum.

2. This forum moderation by staffs seems to be similiar as in their office in CA. The staffs are off every weekends and holidays (just like Thanksgiving one). @NianticAtlas and @NianticVK seems to be the only staffs who are still active while other staffs are off, despite both of them mostly only reply to appeals, reporting the outcomes. And in some rare case, Atlas was suddenly replied to another BleedBoss' account. This leads to another problem, this forum (no, just some threads) may went wild because of things like player/faction fights or dramas, including the thread I've put earlier.

@NianticTintino @NianticGiffard @NianticDanbocat I know you're inactive during weekends (and I don't actually want to disturb your weekend too), but may I ask you about this forum moderation? Where are the other staffs? Why are the staffs less active in this forum most of the time, especially on weekends? And what would you do to improve this forum moderation?

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Comments

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Consider this thread as the continuation of this thread below, before it'll be closed down next Monday:

    Why should that thread be closed next Monday?

    If it has offtopic comments, then those comments are the ones that should be removed and allow the thread to stay. Requesting that a thread is closed because it contains offtopic comments it's not nice towards the person that created that thread because as we have seen it's being used to shut down other people voices.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not asking for it to be closed.

    I regret the digression, but I also regret that you, who are not the author, are ordering me to close it.

    You are not qualified to do so.

    You are neither a game master nor an admin of this forum. You're just another Wayfinder like us.

    And given the past history of useful discussions being shut down in such a manner, shutting it down is a bad way to shut down a discussion unless there is something wrong with it.

    Basically, I believe that all discussions should be kept alive and that threads should be continued as sequels to those discussions.

    At least in Japan, various topics have been discussed in huge forums for more than 20 years, long before the development of SNS.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think that he's asking you to close it, instead he has requested the forum administrators to close that thread.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,559 Ambassador

    It's a shame that threads that go off-topic so badly get closed as a matter of routine. I think the suggestion about cleaning up these otherwise-valuable threads, removing the off-topic content, and allowing the discussion to continue is a far better option.

    Of course, I also think that hiding the names of those liking or disagreeing with posts is a mistake: basically hitting one of those buttons is a deliberate action and shouldn't be done anonymously. I do wish that people would give a reason for their disagrees, but even more, I wish people wouldn't get so upset when someone disagrees with one of their statements. In any good give-and-take discussion, opinions vary. If people agree with every statement I make, then I'm probably not posting thought-provoking content! I've had some good lessons learned from people who disagree with me and then make their opposing point of view clear.

    Disagrees should affect only one's forum rating, those silly stars after our names. That's it. Spam and Abuse should be flagged using that first button on the left, and only those reports should be the basis of any disciplinary action by Niantic (including warnings or bans for overuse/falsely flagging posters that one simply doesn't like for whatever reason). Spam and Abuse reporting should of course be confidential, but disagrees are more of a conversational tool and should be easily visible via the old hover-over method. Niantic's stated reason for removing this layer of visibility is not working out as they'd anticipated, and I believe they should roll back the change.

    It's here I go back to some Ingress roots: in Ingress, when you attack or capture a portal, those actions are visible to all area agents. You're not allowed to then call out that attacker in comms, though, claiming victimhood. If you're attacking a portal in the middle of a closed park, you may be reported (through official channels) for trespassing or worse, but knowing that thoose actions are public keeps many people from breaking the rules in this fashion. In Pokemon Go, you can attack a gym in that same spot and no one will ever know it's you. Spoofers love this anonymity, of course. In these forums, one shouldn't be allowed to call out those who disagree with their posts, demanding an explanation and claiming victimhood. I have a few people that disagree with my posts on a regular basis, and that hasn't hurt me in the slightest. I'd never call them out by name, as that would be abusive on my part. But even without third-party tools, those names are still visible with the hyperlink method anyway (until Niantic figures out how to block that route as well). It's all silly. Disagree as you wish, I'm not a fragile flower and will survive either way.

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 4,215 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you're talking about what I wrote in this thread, I'm only assuming your thread will be closed next Monday. In that thread, I'd recall that @Gendgi-PGO also asking to Niantic not only to shut the thread down but also implement the main objective in the discussion (level restriction for accessing this forum).

    Even if anyone didn't asking for it, Niantic staffs (usually Giffard) will close threads anyway if some users start derailing the threads by endless debates, harrassing or targeting players, groups or factions, or pointelss dramas. That's if Giffard is active during weekdays.

    Back to your thread, I agree that we're discussing about @BleedBoss-PGO accounts and what should Niantic do to prevent this (well, this was also happened before, that some trolls created new accounts to troll both @TrevorAlan-PGO and @NianticGiffard , while the latter were being impersonated by them). Then, someone started the 'disagree drama' which is not the point of that discussion, and then the thread got derailed. Note that @HaramDingo-ING pointed the disagrees in my reply, while I didn't mention any users nor I can't see who disagreed my reply anyway (I'm using mobile browser).

    Sorry if my reply in your thread would trigger such drama that I'm not intended to.

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 4,215 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh, I forgot to mention that threads will be closed if it's not Wayfarer related.

    Yes, there's one asking for remote raids in GO which is out-of-topic, yet that thread won't get closed until Monday.

  • sinXsan-INGsinXsan-ING Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    While the fact that my ID showed up this time is a problem, the fact that they are using a rogue tool is critical.

    This is because among the topics discussed in this community, POI proposal fraud is a major concern, and the open use of fraudulent tools by people who come and go here is a problem that shakes the fairness of the community.

    It is also hard to imagine that the stable quality of POI can be ensured in an environment where that kind of flaunting of fraud is allowed.


    On the other hand, there are cases where the disagree function is used to argue against, but as a sign of a desire to go along with the opinion already expressed.

    It seemed to me to be an act of intimidation to discourage such an expression of intent, and I don't think that's good for the community's exchange of ideas.

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 4,215 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't need to repeat this anymore, okay?

    Previously we're talking about @BleedBoss-PGO accounts, NOT about anyone can see who are disagreeing their post or fraud tools or something else. And here I'm talking about Niantic's poor forum management and NOT (partially, tbh) the 'disagree drama'. Am I clear here??


    If you're still complaining about that, please go to Report a Bug section and put your complaints there.

  • AScarletSabre-PGOAScarletSabre-PGO Posts: 754 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    I am a rank five forum member and at times, I still have to wait for my posts to be "moderated". Seems like a waste to me. I've stuck around long enough to know how the forum works. Save those precious moderation resources for the newer members of the forum instead of a user with five stars next to their next username.

    I have way more "likes" and "insightfuls" than "disagrees", and even one "promote". It's not as though I am that controversial of a member. I have more than twice many "likes" as "disagrees" to my user.


    P.s. Also yes, Niantic needs more worthwhile staff who know what they are doing (cough Niantic internal reviews cough).

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,559 Ambassador

    While the fact that my ID showed up this time is a problem, the fact that they are using a rogue tool is critical.

    This is because among the topics discussed in this community, POI proposal fraud is a major concern, and the open use of fraudulent tools by people who come and go here is a problem that shakes the fairness of the community.

    I feel that using a plug-in or extension on a third-party forum platform like Vanilla has little to do with POI "fraud". We are routinely asked to use Google Translate, for instance, and other extensions can be utilized for ease of use or remediation of disabilities. Wayfarer itself is a Niantic product, as are Pokemon Go and Ingress: this forum itself is *about* Wayfarer, and is not Wayfarer itself. If you clicked the Disagree button, then showing your name isn't fraud: posting your name as a means of contention or public shaming, though, could be considered a form of abuse. Such abuses should be reported using the little Flag icon at the bottom left of each post, and not discussed further: doing so only fans the flames.

    It is also hard to imagine that the stable quality of POI can be ensured in an environment where that kind of flaunting of fraud is allowed.

    As above, I feel that tools used on these Vanilla forums do not constitute Wayfarer fraud. If I use a plug-in to switch the background here to Dark Mode, or translate everything into another language automatically, it doesn't mean I am out there faking nominations and running reject scripts on Wayfarer itself.

    On the other hand, there are cases where the disagree function is used to argue against, but as a sign of a desire to go along with the opinion already expressed.

    It seemed to me to be an act of intimidation to discourage such an expression of intent, and I don't think that's good for the community's exchange of ideas.

    I'm afraid I do not understand this point at all. No one is stopping anyone from disagreeing with anything. I don't think clicking Disagree in an anonymous fashion helps foster open communication in any way.

  • sinXsan-INGsinXsan-ING Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021
  • sinXsan-INGsinXsan-ING Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    @WheelTrekker-ING

    I would suggest you visit this site.

    https://9db.jp/pokemongo/map#36.404,136.978,6

    Minpoke, the largest external site used by Pokémon trainers in Japan.

    Did you find anything in this?

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hypocrisy

    disapproving : the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do : behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel

    When his private letters were made public, they revealed his hypocrisy.

    the hypocrisy of people who say one thing but do another

    Teenagers often have a keen awareness of their parents' hypocrisies.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

  • sinXsan-INGsinXsan-ING Posts: 299 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    Very interesting!(UK)

    For the last time, what have you found?

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I found one person that claims against the use of "rogue tools", and he has posted several screenshots of himself using third party tools.

    The same person that claims that in order to have a "healthy dialog" the way to go is to click disagree but doesn't want anyone to know that it's him the one that did it, otherwise it would be shameful because the real reason of the disagree is an attempt to attack the person, not to disagree with the ideas expressed in the post.

    This is also followed by another person that also wants to hide his identity and has been warned due to his attacks on other users in this forum. He's so pathetic that is willing to disagree with a definition by Merriam-Webster, he is so out of touch with reality that as soon as he sees my name in one post he clicks disagree and @NianticGiffard can verify who are the persons that have been clicking disagree with my posts even when I explained to a user that a restored wayspot in Pokemon Go won't return as a Gym if there's a new one. That person is acting in bad faith and against the community, he doesn't care to hurt the community in order to try to get any kind of vengeance.

  • MagicalThorn-INGMagicalThorn-ING Posts: 532 ✭✭✭

    Oh,This is a very brave proposal.(UK)


    -----


    I have nothing but the utmost sympathy for him.

    It's a shame that there are still people out there who post unabashedly and without any apology for the fraudulent tools he used.

    Moreover, there are those who are not willing to investigate and make the effort to recognize the existence of a tool that diverges from the fraudulent tool, which exists at the URL referred to.

    I am simply amazed that people who, in good conscience, refer URLs to us are treated as if they were criminals.


    Whatever he says, it is clear that he lacks credibility, as he has no intention of apologising for the crimes he has committed, including the use of illegal tools.




    Now, I think it's time for me, who is also HPWU Lv.60 Wizard, to wield the Magic Wand tonight.


    Now, @NianticGiffard , Please close this thread. The time has come.

    The False Ball is over.

  • aleprj-INGaleprj-ING Posts: 565 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is using wayfarer+ to add S2 Cells while reviewing considered a "fraudulent tool" as well?

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hey! you're able to reply!

    Can you please explain why did you mark as with a Disagree the comment where I explained to a user that restored Wayspots don't retain their Gym status? Do you have any proof that I'm wrong or were you just trying to tro.ll me?

    I would be interested also to understand why the definition of hypocrisy in this thread has a disagree, do you know English better than the authors of the Merrian-Webster dictionary?

    And when you talk about people "has no intention of apologising for the crimes he has committed, including the use of illegal tools.", I guess that you're talking about yourself, right? https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/18996/editorial-battles-and-photos-doctored-with-red-text-case-at-ibaraki-pre https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/23151/k12-abuse-and-more-bremen-ost-α https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/23198/statues-in-the-river-bremen-sued-α

    and we could go on...

This discussion has been closed.