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On the Abuse Reporting part:
Excellent addition and a VERY welcome one too if it is acted upon and not left for dead for months like the edit form. However removing the forum will, in my view and in the long term, do overall more damage than good.
By removing a public report communication channel, you're also excusing yourself (NIA) from being held accountable by the public for the lack of swiftness, quality, and consistency of your report follow-ups as it makes the whole process much more opaque and less prone to community scrutiny.
I cannot help but feel that this "save face move" to reduce your (NIA's) accountability - not the blanket excuse of privacy - was the main motivator behind the change.
The correct thing would be to keep the forum appeals channel open as a secondary/backup means of report.
If the appeal is successful, is there any plan to punish/notify reviewers who had voted in contrast with guidelines or selected a bad rejection reason and reward those who had accepted the nomination? It may be a good opportunity to make people more informed about what is acceptable and what isn't.
Maybe not a direct punish for just one bad review, but they absolutely should get informed in order to be able to improve thier further reviews.
Wayfarer who 1* for reasons that are incomprehensible for the appeal-team for multiple times, even after getting notified, should get timeouts and even bans if they continue this behavior.
1* should be given quite rarely. If there is doubt, at least 2* it, if a submission is "belivable" but can´t be confirmed even a 3*.
A lot of reviewers give out 1* like halloween candy.
Okay, I've tried out the private abuse reporting chat - a bit disheartened that you can only report one wayspot at a time, and can't start a new ticket until the previous one closes... there are instances where multiple abusive wayspots are connected to each other, or when there are multiple cases to report (even if one just happens to stumble on something new while an old report is still being processed).
Is there any chance the new system can be changed to accommodate multiple reports?
@NianticTintino @Danbocat-PGO when an appeal is accepted...
1. Can the people who lost the agreement originally accepting the nomination be given an agreement?
2. (I doubt you'll do this) Can a disagreement be given to those who rejected it? Or a message/warning/punishment so some accountability is taken.
I think we'll need to see how things go with appeals before I'd remotely considering signing on for anything involving a punishment. I'm assuming that the appeals will be reviewed by the same people who approved mattress stores, Aldi's, and Chipotle and rejected many great submissions we've seen posted on this forum. I have no reason to believe that these people do a better job overall than the community does, and suspect that they probably do a worse job. If I were to be punished for not accepting a generic mattress store, I would never do another review again.
Furthermore, a lot of stuff is subjective. If I, in good faith, think a business doesn't meet the criteria, should I be punished because a different individual, also acting in good faith, disagrees?
Additionally, with appeals, the submitters have the opportunity to add more information. If that information makes the difference between an acceptance or rejection, why should I be punished because I didn't get to see it?
Also, appeals can be made on old submissions. We've seen criteria change dramatically even over the past two or three years. If I rejected an indoor McDonald's playground after the AMA answer came out that they were invalid, but it is considered acceptable by today's standards, should I be "punished" for following the then-current guidelines? Trail markers are another thing where the guidance has gone back and forth and standards have changed.
Even if the Niantic reviewers suddenly became infallible, this could be extremely unfair to people who have acted in good faith following the guidelines that existed at the time they did the reviews using the information presented (and not the additional information that can be included in an appeal), as I expanded upon in my post above.
Ok, perhaps "punish" was too strong of a word and I agree with your doubts and with the fact that there is a large grey zone, but I'd just be happy with the following:
I dunno where you review, but I wish I were there! An unfortunately high percentage of what I see is objectively illegible trash that should without a doubt be rejected. I feel like I'm a pretty lenient reviewer, but I definitely hand out 1* reviews like candy and I make no apologies about it whatsoever.
That's fair, and better reviewer feedback and education is sorely needed. I dunno if agreements should be messed with, but certainly letting reviewers know the outcome of the appeal wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing (although there could also be all kinds of unintended consequences, as there are for so many things Wayfarer-related!). I just shy away from the "punishment" aspect for so many reasons. I fully understand the frustration and why so many people are out for a bit of blood, but I think getting punitive would have a very bad outcome overall.
I gave different options including "message", if it fits, simply sending a message that criteria has/may have changed now can be very benificial.
I haven't read everything here (comments), but I would just like to say thank you! These changes are such great improvements, from what I can tell. 🤩
The emails are looking great! And the clarifications regarding who has reviewed the nomination, as well as the time span before the Wayspot may go live and the fact that there is no guarantee for it to go live in all games, even though accepted - they are all excellent info to put in these emails. Newer submitters (and more experienced ones, too) have much better info with these clarifications, I think.
Also really excited about the new appeal option! That could be a real game changer - for the better.
I don't mind the having to click three options, and I also search and and the correct category if I had to click 'no' to all 3 suggestions. If that helps categorize better and more precisely, it's all good IMO. I don't mind putting effort in my reviewing, so I am really positive about this new system.
All in all, just thank you for these improvements! Am very hyped about this, can't wait to use it more. 😅
Could you please clarify if we are supposed to just click the "best" option from the 3 available for What Is It or select multiple tags if applicable (i.e. "Baseball Field" and "Athletic Field"). If we are supposed to just click the best one, it would be great if you could make the other 2 switch to No automatically once a Yes is clicked, to save us clicks.
I think the fact that it doesn't automatically turn the other options off means it is acceptable to pick multiple options.
That would be my inclination as well, but the text hasn't changed and still says "pick the best option"
The flow is also clunky if we know there's another better option out there. Like yesterday I had a basketball court, but the 3 options it gave me were:
I would consider a basketball court all of those things, but even if I answered yes to them all, the "best" option -- Basketball Court -- is still locked unless you select No to all of those. Hopefully it will get a bit less awkward over time as nominators tag items, but I don't like having to click "no" to 3 valid categories only to get to a better category. Especially since folks may or may not know that the better option is even out there.
Until Niantic puts better effort into categories and the logic with suggested options, I personally wouldn't try too hard to find the best tag for everything - unless you just want an excuse to slow down reviews to avoid cooldowns.
Anyways, just my opinion on the matter. Hopefully they update the content to better reflect the current process.
@NianticTintino can you give us the answer to the "What Is It" multiple selection question? The instructions are still to choose the "most specific label" but it is possible to submit with 1, 2, or 3 yes answers. Does Niantic want all that apply, or just one?
Oh boy I am SO going to appeal this ridiculous "it's seasonal" rejection: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/20877/how-to-counter-a-ridiculous-its-seasonal-claim
Also, a question: can you make it possible to appeal entries wrongly flagged as "duplicated", too? I would REALLY like to overturn this: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/21507/submission-marked-as-duplicate-but-it-isnt-please-rectify (tl;dr: two separate tennis courts at least 200 metres afar have been flagged as duplicated).
update: ha, I am dumb, it already is possible to appeal a duplicate, I didn't see it, carry on and thanks for your work.
I understand this is linked to a slightly different thread, but...
Ingress In-game contribution limits
Also in mid-December, we’ll be replacing the old contribution limit mechanism in Ingress from a 14 day wait period to accrue, to a daily accrual system, with increased max daily quota based on the contribution type.
This is may be handled more by the Ingress team than you and the Wayfarer team, but do you know when their intended ship is for this update, @Danbocat-PGO?
I have trouble choosing a category for Boule/Boccia courts. There should be an "Other" category for outdoor sports courts and fields.
I find it strange that when I come accross a restaurant nomination, one of the selections is "restaurant" and yet if I select no and try to use "restaurant", that choice is not available. Insead I have to choose one of more 200 different varieties of restaurants. If "restaurant" is good enough, why so many other choices?
I know "hello" wasn't much better, but I'm having a hard time getting used to "notices" being the name given addressing me in emails. Does that tend to escape spam filters better than "Niantic Wayfarer"? Lol.
Now we should work on incentives for people that constantly complain about reviewing to stop reviewing. Lol
I've had the same *public park* rejected as "seasonal" like 3 times.
Plus in a rural area the "is it there or not" feature is useless. Everything under trees or on a back road is 3 stars.
You can try to edit the location on google maps. If that gets accepted google maps will give a marker to that point and while reviewing, seeing a marker proves the existence of the nomination. Though google maps doesn't usually accept new location but if you submit one with photos of it, it has higher chances to get accepted. In addition you can add a 360 photo of that location on google street view. By doing so it the clearly show your nomination on the maps section on review board.
So, a friend of mine managed to submit his appeal before this post went live, I think there was about an hour between the feature going live and this post. I submitted mine during the first hour after this post...
Neither of us has gotten the appeal resolved after 10 days. Did you guys get a tonne of appeals in these first hours, are the appeals not handled first come, first served, or do you simply not prioritize people to work on them?
I agree the selection of restaurants is a bit excessive. I figure they got their list of categories from a place like Yelp where that many sub-categories is actually relevant.
Yeah, I am also eagerly awaiting this as well. Maybe it might be released on the 23rd when the AMAs come out too before Niantic goes on Christmas break, but then again this is probably for the team. Tagging @NianticTintino-ING, you might know.
Why is it lately the Pokémon GO community has all the new wayfarer features like the new nominating, while the Ingress players had to wait 2 months in first instance? And then now it has even changed to the end of January/February?! Like how can you be taken seriously Niantic???
Off-topic, but @NianticGiffard @NianticVK would you please consider to archive Poland and India Wayfarer Challenge subforum? You can keep Russia one open for anyone complaining for their rewards.
I am so, so excited about the Appeals button. For some strange reasons, our local reviewers don't like Trail Markers (for named trails on wilderness hike trails). It is hard to get back there to resubmit them, so being able to appeal these rejections is MAGIC