Live in Wayfarer 3.1 is a new set of acceptance criteria! Please browse the information in this category with caution as it is in reference to the previous review guidelines. To learn more about the new criteria, see here: https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/wayfarer/
If Niantic doesn't want to have Wayspots in cemeteries, I would be in full support of this.
But if this is the case, I would like to see consistency and clarity. "Avoid Nominations whose real world locations appear to be..." is a very ambiguous phrase open to interpretation. The phrase "In my opinion..." leaves it ambiguous if Casey is just offering their interpretation of an ambiguously worded criteria, or something they consulted with the wayfarer team. And many AMAs answers and guidelines clarifications on the forums have had minor contradictions against the Wayfarer Criteria Guide and each other. What many people here would like is clear and concise guidance about the issue and will be reflected on the Wayfarer site.
Thanks, said it better than I could have, @GearGlider-ING.
*Consistency* in review and guidelines is important. There are only a few areas where candidates that are typically eligible are not allowed - for example a gazebo or mural is typically eligible unless on k-12 or private residential property. It does not make sense to restrict gazebos or murals from a cemetery but then specifically allow "Headstones, statues or memorials dedicated to a historical figure, someone who is significant to the local community, or groups of individuals," and then the text elsewhere stating to avoid nominations for things inside a cemetery even seemingly contradict this.
@NianticCasey-ING Reading the piece directly in Wayfarer help that you quoted "Avoid nominations whose real-world locations appear to be cemeteries, burial grounds, or gravestones."
It says appear to "be" cemeteries, burial grounds, or gravestones. It doesnt mention things within cemeteries or burial grounds. This makes the current wording either confusing or crystal clear that a Church inside a graveyard would be eligible. Or other things such as statues, trails, pavilions, or other such things.
Can you please go back to Wayfarer Team and get a concrete answer on this and update Wayfarer Help accordingly. Not everyone uses the forums.
Honestly the only thing would quality under the guidelines in my opinion would be markers that are placed in the cemetery by local recognized historical commissions. My thing is the picture on the help section with Elvis Presley's grave is that is not even at a cemetery it is at Graceland a private estate that is open for tourism that contrasts to a cemetery. In Texas we have the Texas State Historical Commission that places plaques throughout the state and they vet historic topics, people, places etc. I have seen historical plaques at graves and they are few and far in between.
@NianticCasey-ING but that goes against what you said before, about being in a graveyard doesnt mean its Ineligible. So bownsayi a church in a graveyard isnt eligible doesnt make sense.
Honestly though, if it comes down to a church in a graveyard, there's 2 ways to look at it, if it's a church in a graveyard that's used for sunday mass, basically it s church or chapel that happens to be in a graveyard, that should be fine, but if it's one thay is only used for funerals, then that I would say is a rejection
This thread segment from the Facebook group is a great example about people unsure about what “avoid” means exactly.
@GearGlider-ING plus that's still Casey's opinion. Personally I think that if it s a cemetery hat let's normal people walk, jog, run, dog walk etc. Through it at all times, then if somethi g is submitted in there that would fit criteria, it's acceptable. I wouldn't allow churchs/chapels/crematoriums that are used only for funerals, but If a standard church was in a graveyard that's used for mass or service normally, that should pass
A while ago I read this discussion to decide if I should rate a graveyard chapel (in german: Friedhofskapelle) with 1* (wich I did).
Today I found the exact same POI as a showcase. Seems they are eligible after all.
Just because it shows up in the showcase doesn't mean it is eligible. The showcased POIs are not screened at all by Niantic, so they often show things that were approved but should not have been. This has been something we have complained about a lot. The recent AMA stated they were planning on fixing this soon.
That is a very crucial and shocking Information. 😨
Thanks for the clarification.
Having waypoints in cemeteries does not demonstrate a lack of respect. That lack of respect comes from the behavior of humans interacting with those objects, when it does happen. The Ingress example above is one way that at least one player base is trying to avoid disrepect: if a cemetery has set hours, abide by the rules. Our Ingress community behaves the same towards parks, and always calls out interactions that take place after hours. Yes, in Pogo, that means that if trespassers or even spoofers take over a cemetery gym after hours, you can't go take it back. Deal with the rule-breakers, in that case. We have some beautiful cemeteries in our area, used by walkers and joggers and historical walking tours: one cemetery not far away is famed for its birdwatching opportunities. These walker, tourists, and birders are able to pursue their hobbies without disrupting active services, grieving visitors, or the overall solemn nature of the place. We did have one cemetery nearby that removed all Pokestops in the early days of Pokemon Go, when people were just insanely flouting all sensible boundaries: in that cemetery, the Ingress Portals remain, and there have been no further complaints that I know of. Many of the monuments marked by portals are beautiful, custom artworks and definitely worthy of interest. I would imagine a funerary chapel would indeed not fall under the Church classification, but if historically or architecturally significant it may be an exceptional case. I'm sure Niantic was flooded with cemetery removal requests when Pokemon Go first came out, and amended their guidelines to avoid the problem in the future, but you know what? Some of the removed-from-Pogo waypoints are still great spawn points and are used by Pokemon Go players to this day for catching, not for raid parties or other boisterous gatherings.
A cemetery near me switched their name to “Memorial Park” to encourage people to use it as a park. They’ve even posted on Facebook that they have pokestops, to encourage people to play there. They’ve also assisted me with information to submit more stops. They host a family fall festival every year, along with a 5k run and other activities. I’m sure there are other Memorial parks that also welcome and encourage this. To have future submissions rejected because it’s a “cemetery” would be a shame. There’s definitely a difference between a memorial park and a traditional cemetery, and the criteria needs to reflect this.
Together with the explanation by @NianticCasey-ING it makes sense to me.
A church is surrounded by community life at any time given, passing cars, walking/chatting people. It is perfectly normal that there is noise outside during masses. And this overall situation does not change if there is a small graveyard attached at one side.
Chapels inside of a cemetery is different. They are used for funeral rituals mainly. There is no constant community life around them. They are places of silence. People come to mourn and say googbye to their loved ones: parents, children, brothers, sisters, friends. It can bevery disturbing if just that moment where the funeral procession leaves the chapel they meet a group of gamers shouting "shiny".
A good indicator for distinguishing one from another is that funeral chapels are open to all religions and atheists.
I am very satisfied with this clarification as it meets what I have always felt while reviewing.
Yesterday I reviewed an information board at a cemetery, which appeared to be similar to any other tourist information board with a lot of detailed text and images. I reviewed it highly because I felt that a cemetery which puts this type of board must be welcoming to visitors who want to find out more about the cemetery. I hope that wasn't the wrong thing to do.
I think that some cemeteries are fine to play games in, for example where they are very old (some locally are several hundreds of years old), have public footpaths running through them, have full service churches inside or are set up like a park. Some are more "functional" and just hold funerals and have modern graves, which would feel much less "right" to play in. I guess this is where local knowledge helps.
I'm pretty sure I commented on this thread months ago, but the kind of cemetery nominations I feel comfortable submitting (and have been successful) have all been historic in nature. And more importantly, in by opinion, are not cemeteries in use anymore. I can absolutely see why people wouldn't want POIs near active funerals. Some local POIs are in active cemeteries (they've been there since the start of pogo) and my community us respectful and has called off raids when they see a funeral happening. But I know not all people are that considerate.
What a coincidence, just a few minutes ago a chapel next to a graveyard appeared in my queue for the first time since I started reviewing, and I gave it 5★ because it was external, I hope I did it right.
I entirely agree.