Fake Series of a Moving LFL in Northern Sydney and other random junk

HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

First of all, do you really expect us to actually BE AT EACH FAKE LOCATION to report a clearly fake series of nominations? You were more than happy to take action on the moving fake little free library in Syracuse reported a few months ago reported by someone who is not in the area but your Wayfarer support wants geo-tagged locations from me? That's really not good.

If that is the way you want to deal with in-app Wayfarer abuse reporting, then I won't bother. You've rarely asked for geotagged photos (except for that time when a mural on the overpass was in the trees) for requests, so I'm going to post this here because this Wayfinder is fraudulent and the evidence is clear as day and I have wasted a lot of time writing in to your help support. Anyway, onwards with the abuse case.

This is a series of Little Free Library locations being moved around in the suburb of Warrawee/Turramurra. They are stuck into a random position, a photosphere is generated at the place, and then once the wayspot is approved (usually in a free cell), it is usually painted over and then moved around. LFL's are great candidates usually, but when many people start to notice a pattern and why two suburbs have eight different little libraries

#1. Decorated Little Library (~Jan 2021) - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.730092,151.124373 (Possible photosphere)

The date of this one is unknown, but it shows several of the same books found in the next Little Libraries. The Little Library is on a 2x4 post; look specifically at it when comparing the LFLs, it is strangely, the most consistent feature of this moving LFL.

#2. Owl Little Library (~Jan 2021) - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.732965,151.126236

This is most likely the same library as above with the same design, just on an different angle. It is difficult to see the books within. As I am unable to ascertain the date of these two above, it's assumed that they were done as the photospheres found around the same time.

#3. Jirachi's Little Library (Feb 2021) - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.729917,151.123669 (Photosphere)

It's gotten a fresh lyck of bright pink paint and the books are all jumbled up. It's now a Pokemon-themed Little Library, which should automatically ring alarm bells but you'll see more of this later.

#4. Halfpenny Park Little Library (Apr 2021) - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.729843,151.12594 (Photosphere)

The box has been painted over with green, but it shows a pink edge inside. The books within are all in the same position (more specifically the book with the pages outwards and the white-blue book on the right), so this LFL was not used or exchanged among the community whatsoever, so it is possible the abuser returned it back to their residence as soon as the photosphere was done and stored until the next time they did this.

#5. Green Little Library - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.729417,151.122792

Same colours. Same 2x4 timber plank. Same book configuration, much dirtier. The right edge has pink edges.

#6. Young Street Little Library (Aug 2021) - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.720078,151.12665 (Photosphere)


The books have certainly gotten a refresh and bit of a new lyck of paint, but this is no doubt the same LFL. The edge of the left side still has a faded pink colour.

#7. Eastern Road Little Library (Aug 2021) - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.718749,151.131163 (Photosphere)

Exact LFL design and plank, same books but slightly rearranged.

#8. Holmes Street Little Library (August 2021) (Photosphere)

Not a live portal but, this has been getting rejected and resubmitted numerous times. The photosphere of it appears above. Same books yeah. The obvious house at the front screams PRP and highly unlikely to be approved.

#9. Furret's Little Library (September 2021) - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.73035,151.123537 (Photosphere)

Same books and design, except that random Sentrets and Furrets have been pasted onto the top of the library. It's really starting to look quite to look like it's undergoing wear and tar now, not even the door is straight anymore!

#10. Feebas' Little Library - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.718301,151.128379 (Photosphere)

The books have gotten a refresh, good job! It's been painted with vibrant orange and purple, but it is... by no doubt the exact same 4x2 plank. The positions of the dark circles really gives it away.

#11. Feebas' Little Library (Oct 2021) - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.707073,151.104525 (Photosphere)

Ibid.

#12. Pokemon Little Library (Dec 2021) - (Photosphere)

This is the latest attempt. To be fair, it looked quite normal but also very weird in such an odd location. This was going through the rounds of Wayfarer, and it wasn't until maybe two-three days ago that this was pointed out to me. And then they pointed out the rest of the fake libraries and all the similarities within the area and I finally realised it.

...

I reeeeeeally wouldn't have bat an eye with all these libraries popping up since they were well away from my area, but it was also last week that came to my attention that he had stolen a photo of a SURVEY MARK and attempted to pass it off as being in the area. But every state survey mark is on Six.Maps (and believe me when I say, many people do their true due diligence in checking) and it is something very unfakeable. When this person attempted to submit the photo of a survey mark usually found in Google Images which is actually along the Lane Cove River, or a photo stolen from Cranebrook 40km away, he lost every single ounce of respect and authenticity from much of the reviewing community, and this spread like wildfire to a lot of the Wayfarer channels, which this morning has even taken the rounds to appearing on the Facebook Wayfarer page this morning, which I think someone else identified the user or something.

Other fakes/temporary:

There are some very ugly basic nominations littered around the Turramurra area. All of them, just like all the LFLs above have photospheres, and allege that they all "have a photosphere to prove its location and permanence". But photospheres take a single moment in time as a photo and remain there almost indefinitely, so you can paint something or put something in a certain place, and then it will be either completely removed or the paint fully washes out. There is likely to be more than what I can see here, but you need to understand the gravity of the situation Niantic. Anyone reviewing in Sydney has seen at least one of these, and they might share a similar sentiment.

Genderqueer Pride Pole - Sep 2021 (photosphere)

This is literally a random wooden pole along the railway line being painted in three colours. The paint doesn't even look professionally done, it's literally just three colours.

Transexual Pride Pole - Sep 2021 (photosphere)

Another one of these that I have seen this a dozen times already. It is literally an insulation pole near the railway bridge. Wanna know something else? This pole was actually painted green and red with an X-mas '19 theme. Regular Street view shows this at the same location.

But that's not the only X-mas related wayspot in Turramurra...

Christmas '19 Mural - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.735697,151.133145

Christmas '19 Mural - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.732563,151.130816

The same red and green stripe design on various random pieces of equipment that is highly likely to be gone now. In fact, you can even see the same mural fading away in Street View as taken here in September 2020 in Street View!

Slender Man Mural (June 2021) - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.731141,151.124959 (Photosphere)

This was rejected once, but eventually snuck through reviewers in-game. This is literally a piece of paper or a poster printed and pasted onto a regular traffic control box. The description and supporting statement about how other "unique murals" are set up throughout the suburb is the statement this user alleges for the majority of nominations in the area.

Pikachu/Raichu Electricity Box (Sep 2021) - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.730355,151.125676 (Photosphere)

It is literal stickers stuck onto a random electricity box in the area of Pokemon.

Then you have all these randomly painted artworks all along the Pacific Highway that really looks like it was done by a six-year old that is by no doubt, done by the same person themselves.

Gengar Family Traffic Box (Aug 2021): https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.730043,151.123826 (Photosphere)

Little posted pasted on. Vandalism really.

Turramurra Zebra Bench: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.735625,151.132881

Black Lives Matter Mural: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.736753,151.13321

Indigenous BLM Mural: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.736953,151.133397

TPS Aboriginal Mural: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.734769,151.1321


Prince Memorial Mural: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.735068,151.132548

Rainbow Pride Mural: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.734669,151.132316

Rainbow Bench: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.734455,151.131851 (for reference, an actual commissioned seat looks like this)

Rainbow Pride Bench: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.733245,151.128692


Pride Pole Mural: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.73389,151.13177

Pride Manhole Mural: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.733825,151.131457

Transgender Flag Bench: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.732073,151.126143

Don't Worry, Be Happy! - https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.731774,151.130941

and finally, Don't Worry, Be Happy: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.733645,151.128042

======================================================

For Niantic, is this not evidence enough? Do you want a geo-tagged photo for every single one of these because there's no evidence that it's the exact same LFL being moved around? You want to hassle me to go all the way to Turramurra just to show that the majority are either not in their locations, their **** paint jobs has been heavily washed out and therefore deemed temporary, and all the stupid Pokemon printouts and stickers have been removed by council?

Also again, I reiterate. Your transparency is better if you actually keep case IDs and such open, but you wanted me to provide you geo-tagged photos within 5 business days, but instead already closed my Wayfarer Abuse Report. Is that the system you want? This is probably one of the most orchestrated levels of local abuse I've come across in Sydney, and the fact that it occurred over this entire year is well... I do have to applaud this person for getting through all the cracks and for making it this far. But now you Niantic must take action.

For everyone else reading: this is a critical reminder that photospheres should be used to help provide location aids to help verify where it is being submitted, not to prove permanence because a photosphere only captures one singular point in time. In fact, for some nominations, a photosphere has the potential to hurt nominations.

And for the abuser? Thanks for handing your abuse case on a silver platter.

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Comments

  • sara22au-PGOsara22au-PGO Posts: 37 ✭✭✭

    I'm up the Blue Mountains, and get nominations Australia wide, which means that I'm unlikely to be able to detect this sort of abuse...and why getting them approved as legit is way more likely. If I only see the one nom from that location, and duplicates show me only one or two other same type POIs, but with different appearance, I'm going to accept it. However, things like the benches should never have been accepted, they meet no criteria. That will be the result of the local group subbing these fake noms having enough numbers to get it approved via wayfarer, without it being viewed by many non locals. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

    I agree that photo spheres are as open to being used as a tool of abuse as any other still shot. A good supporting pic that shows identifiable landmarks that have been there for some time works just as well, but there does seem to be a belief that a photo sphere is the definition of proof for a lot of reviewers. Me, for things like track markers, which won't be visible on any map, a photo sphere is just as useless. Since Google doesn't have "walk" view, I create my own, and upload to yt with link in supporting. I start at a known ig POI, and walk to whatever I'm subbing. Using out dated street view, when satellite view would show if an object such as those LFL were present, also seems to be an option reviewers neglect.

    I guess having POIs as a crowd sourced platform means that unless multiple wayfarers submit abuse reports for the same POIs, the onus will be on the single person, to prove, with evidence, that they are fake. Damned damned damned

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is it just me, or did they actually use the same set of books?

  • Hikaru588-INGHikaru588-ING Posts: 312 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    More evidence that "#9. Furret's Little Library" is fake.

    It is highly unlikely that permission would have been given to install a LFL that close to a pad mount transformer given the presence of underground HV cables and other clearance requirements. Also the images show that it is obstructing a maintenance access door for the pad mount transformer.

  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Someone built or got ahold of an LFL and a bench and buckets of paint and made dozens of stops out of them. I mean. That’s some pretty high-level fraud. It’s clear-cut when all laid out like this, but one at a time would definitely be able to pass. And the artistic and decorative effort is definitely there.

    I definitely hope this Wayfinder goes on to beautify neighborhoods with this kind of talent and dedication and also I hope they are permanently banned from all Niantic products forever.

  • AeriTheBOFH-PGOAeriTheBOFH-PGO Posts: 186 ✭✭✭

    It took some mighty effort for these fakes. The person responsible for this did most of those submissions on their [currently] level 45 PoGo account, hopefully Nia takes action and they end up losing their account, as this is clearly pre-meditated abuse.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for your response! The majority of the LFLs are gone now, including this one which had been approved in the post above, and submitted again, but now this abuser has gone ahead and re-submitted this fake once again after it had been removed. There's no doubt it may get approved again.

    The user needs to be banned from submitting from Wayfarer or even Pokemon GO, as well as anyone else and any alternate accounts who is trying to orchestrate this. He believes he has submitted a photosphere to prove its "permanence" but it doesn't even exist in Google Maps anymore, defaulting to the regular Street View, showing absolutely no LFL whatsoever.

    The majority of people in our Wayfarer community know that these are all fakes and will reject anything within the area as so, and yet this user continues to resubmit them even after they all got purged. Please follow through your next actions, thanks.

  • Tntnnbltn-INGTntnnbltn-ING Posts: 695 Ambassador

    Thanks for the detailed research @HaramDingo-ING. I had seen a few of these during my own reviewing -- I remember seeing the trans pole, and then the others on nearby like xmas 19 and the BLM pole and coming to the same conclusion as you. I hadn't seen most of the LFLs -- (the ones I did see I rejected) -- but I'll be sure to scrutinise that suburb.

    Agreed though with the absurdity of needing geotagged photos when it is possible to show conclusive evidence of fakes such as these.

  • Tntnnbltn-INGTntnnbltn-ING Posts: 695 Ambassador

    @HaramDingo-ING Thanks to your post I've spotted another one. (-33.7275425,151.1315416)

    Looks like there's been a change of books, but the paint on the right side of the glass panel perfectly matches the Squid Game one.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On top of the Eeveelution one above (call it #14), this is another new one that has appeared. It's really become a joke now.

    #15. Ricardo's Little Library (photosphere) - this is seriously the lamest image out.

    Here are the similarities between each box. Yes the books have changed but the box has not.

    @NianticGiffard, while action was taken on removing the LFLs, the offender remains extremely at large. You need to destroy his access to Wayfarer and ban his Pokemon GO account as a serious abuser. The reason why these public reports exist is because the broader community can be aware of and understand that this is happening, taking these to the private Wayfarer support means no one else can see this.

    Everything in Turramurra is to be rejected. Some may be going through, but apart from slightly changing the supporting photo, it is still in fact, the faker. Can you actually do something for a change because I'm absolutely sick of seeing Turramurra's trash. I see no Niantic response or comment to this post.

  • AeriTheBOFH-PGOAeriTheBOFH-PGO Posts: 186 ✭✭✭

    I can see why some of these are getting through, this is the description of the Gengar wayspot, it'd be pretty convincing to your average Wayfinder:

    At least the Gengar art is semi decent compared to their "Spirited Away - No Face Mural" nearby.

  • Thanks, @HaramDingo-ING! We have reviewed the report and have taken action on 12 Wayspots and the 2 Wayfinders in accordance with our policies. Thanks for helping us maintain the quality of the Wayspots.

  • Tntnnbltn-INGTntnnbltn-ING Posts: 695 Ambassador

    Re: Don't Worry, Be Happy (https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.733645,151.128042)

    It is difficult to see from the angle in streetview, but it appears that the yellow paint was on the footpath-facing side as of November 2019, but then has been cleared off again by March 2020. More supporting evidence that this was temporary graffiti for the purposes of manufacturing a Wayspot which was then cleared off by the council when they found it.



    Rainbow Pride Bench (https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=-33.733245,151.128692)

    As of March 2020 there was no paint on the bench. By November 2020 you can only see the faded remnants of the red, green and blue paint. Either very temporary paint was used or, more likely, the paint was power washed off by the council as it was considered vandalism.

    Any portals submitted by this person(/people) should be heavily scrutinised, as they have shown that they are willing to graffiti public property without appropriate permissions in order to abuse the Wayfarer system.

  • Tntnnbltn-INGTntnnbltn-ING Posts: 695 Ambassador

    In case there was any doubt this was a temporary sticker, I found the original decal online. Turns out all you need for a Pokestop outside your house is a credit card and 10 minutes browsing on Etsy.


  • ScaryS0ul-PGOScaryS0ul-PGO Posts: 129 ✭✭✭

    Probably a new account since pogo had a 3x XP for the last two weekend

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmm, I wouldn't think so. How much experience to Level 38? 12mil or something? It most likely is just the 30-day suspension lifting.

    Anyway, below are several of the nominations where this Northern Sydney abuser is submitting:

    It's the same pattern again with the supporting statement, he submits photospheres for the majority of them, and these are spammed to infinity. The same temporarily painted railway insulation pole, the LFL in front of the house, the stupid bridge plaque which is a pretty bad photo, and the Fan Inn Chinese Restaurant which is not substantiated enough for acceptance (imo).

    But here's the kicker. The disgusting Pokemon-related stencils and paintings are coming back into full force:

    It is literally a random painted board stuck onto the Halfpenny Park (previous location of abusive LFL #4) of a printed Ninetales. These are highly likely to be mass-submitted over and over again just like everything else in Turramurra and people are absolutely sick. I am absolutely sick of this abuser.

    @NianticGiffard, this abuser is absolutely fraudulent and is spamming the system with ineligible (and borderline offensive) nominations. Apart from the Little Library (which is legitimate, only on PRP), he has not stopped and will never stop. I have probably reviewed that Pansexual pole in the double-digits now, probably over 20 times by now. Look at all his nomination history like you did in the past (see first sentence of quoted comment below). You will find this excessive amount of spam all within Turramurra. Some of the cases that @Tntnnbltn-ING highlighted above still exist. Please stop him for good.

    If you want me to visit all these stupid Gengar/Pikachu/graffiti-painted objects and clearly prove it to you/your team with unrefutable evidence, then I will only do so in the course that you guarantee, will delete his Pogo account or ban him and any of his lackeys (if he has any) from submissions for good if they pull off this trash again.

  • patsufredo-PGOpatsufredo-PGO Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is, actually, thanks to a total of 9 hours of triple catch EXP from two consecutive community days. Maybe they went to Sydney CBD during the events.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25

    It is highly likely that it is just the same person again with their same account. I haven't seen any Turramurra nominations for an entire month (which is a godsend, thank god if Niantic actually did something) but now they're all being regurgitated again with the same junk and exactly the same text. Nonetheless, how they're resubmitting with another account and how it levelled up is irrelevant.

    Destroy yet another account if that's the case. Niantic knows what account is submitting what right?

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Look at this masterpiece.

    Friends Forever

    Permanent Pokémon images created by the Council as markers. Promoted as meeting identifiers for fire evacuation points.

    Trainers are familiar with this place as its used by the Council as an evacuation point. This place has a lot of street furniture maintained by the council and helps large groups to gather comfortably. The area provides CoVid safe meeting place.

    This is as stupid as the idiotic Pikachu/Raichu Electricity Box which was posted in the original post. Would the Ku-Ring-Gai Council actually do this? Absolutely not. They are fraudulent as much as they are liars claiming this is permanent and council-approved. This is vandalism.

  • AeriTheBOFH-PGOAeriTheBOFH-PGO Posts: 186 ✭✭✭

    Has any of the new ones actually got through? I can probably be convinced to take a trip to Turramurra over Easter to double check things like that Gengar traffic box.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26

    Most people and reviewers I've talked to are now under the impression that Turramurra is just full of fakes all throughout so they're trusting absolutely nothing that comes from there. I'd probably want to also take a trip to Turramurra as well and scan everything and additional photos so I can remove everything.

    But to answer, nothing has gone through, yet.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dear @NianticGiffard, I am pleading you.

    Please take permanent action on this submitter. This is an absolutely spammed nomination at a private residential property which has been submitted well into the double-digits now. He continuously says that he has attached a photosphere to prove permanence and location just like all the fake LFLs above, and I am absolutely sick of all of this bull.

    This abuser must be culled for good.

  • TooLegitToExist-INGTooLegitToExist-ING Posts: 35 ✭✭

    Please @NianticGiffard do tell us you do offer pernament bans on any and all accounts for repeated fakers, abusers & vandals.

  • Hi all! We have reviewed the following reported Wayspots and taken action on them and on the Wayfinders.

    However to take action on the other Wayspots namely "Don't Worry, Be Happy", "RTA 2010 Bridge Plaque", "Fan Inn", "Pansexual Pride Pole", and "The Flame of Ninetales" we need additional evidence like geotagged images, or photospheres. Hence if you can share them at your convenience, we'll proceed to review them.

  • WoodWose-PGOWoodWose-PGO Posts: 83 ✭✭✭✭

    I detoured past this suburb on my way to work today. I've blurred faces and license plates as this is a public forum, please feel free to reach out if you need original photos.

    "Don't Worry, Be Happy"

    This has been removed, you can still see some remnants of the face and the word "worry"

    "The Flame of Ninetales"

    It appears that Ninetales has abandoned its flame and the paint isn't exactly weatherproof.


    "Pansexual Pride Pole"

    I wasn't able to locate this one, but here's a similar pole (Queergender Pride Pole) with the paint in a state of decay (compare it to the portal photo which isn't that old).

     "RTA 2010 Bridge Plaque", "Fan Inn"

    These exist, they're just arguably somewhat low-quality nominations.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18

    The RTA 2010 Bridge Plaque is an excessively submitted nomination. Look at their list of contributions and you will see the intensity of this spam. Look at how many times they are submitting the same junk over and over again. The same survey marks, the stupid Fan Inn low-quality spammed nomination (there is nothing special about that Chinese Restaurant that they provide) and the RTA 2010 Bridge Plaque. They are completely ineligible with nothing going for them.

    Many thanks to WoodWose for driving past this defiled suburb. I even spoke to the Ku-ring-Gai Council about this, and there are no "community art projects" whatsoever. In fact, someone made a complaint about the Black Lives Matter murals and the Council would never condone such things because they are a "highly conservative council".

    Nothing that he does is legitimate. All of these are highly temporary, non-weather proof markers and a blight to council property. Meanwhile, every second nomination I review is this disgust of a suburb from ALL the spammed nominations. It is highly demotivating to see nothing being done on his account, or whoever whatever alternative account is spamming these.

    Please review WoodWose's evidence so far. There are many others awaiting, but we'll space them out so it's not bulky.

  • WoodWose-PGOWoodWose-PGO Posts: 83 ✭✭✭✭

    It seems that Don't Worry, Be Happy and The Flame of Ninetales are no longer on Ingress Intel, thank you for cleaning those up.

    I documented a few of the other temporary graffiti Wayspots in this suburb while I was there, so here are some more for your review @NianticGiffard

    Transgender Flag Bench

    -33.732073,151.126143

    The bright paint has been completely removed.

    Spirited Away - No Face Mural

    -33.73076,151.12487

    I searched all along this wall and could find any trace of it. The mural was likely as unwelcome as Ghibli's No Face was at the bathhouse, and as a consequence, it's been cleaned off and painted over.

    Gengar Family Traffic Box

    -33.730043,151.123826

    There's absolutely zero trace of this sticker on the street cabinet.

    Class Of '16 Mural

    -33.732847,151.127594

    Looks like there was an attempt at removal here and then whoever was tasked with the clean-up just gave in and painted over it.

    From what I saw, all of these submissions are from a single account, if this user has a contribution that looks like it has been quickly slapped together using cheap paint without permission... it probably has been quickly slapped together using cheap paint without permission. Is there any possibility that the Wayfarer team could take a look through all of their contributions? At some point, submitters like this must surely forfeit the benefit doubt.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticGiffard Please action these as soon as possible. There are SEVERAL more than what is already posted here.

    Your team has already rejected many of my invalid reports (shame on you for siding with the faker) which proves to show there is a HUGE disconnect in current abuse cases. It absolutely kills me that this is not a priority to you.

    Niantic's slow attitude to all this just means it's acceptable to just let abuse fester, because it makes people happy right? But do we really want this?

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now that I think about it, the original point of this post was about the fake moving LFL.

    Do we need a new post for all this other worthless junk?

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