Farm shop/ stand

What is your opinion about a permanently shop on a farmyard side. Most of the time the shop is located right next to a street and is 24/7 accessible.

Does this still falls under the criteria for Prp or is the local business which sells local produced goods an exception.

- As they are great for exploration when visiting unknown areas,

- permanent physical: the shop,

- for pedestrians safe: it is a business on a farmyard so the farmer wants people to get on there property,

- accurate infos: about there product range.

Some links for clarification:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rWp4HBUAY54IwBIYnHYNw-xpZaxTUtYn38pQhlqygq8CIrHUwMGDBIdTZnAijt_xwUNSl_YwmmkZz4bY_yV4y_WvcUDcGuGd-ZjmJQA=s0 on the right side is the "Hoflädla", some German dialect form for "Hofladen" = farm shop, visible.

Hope this makes it clear what I want.

Are farm shops eligible wayspots?

Comments

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • AScarletSabre-PGOAScarletSabre-PGO Posts: 741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    A farm shop could be deemed "locally unique", in certain instances. Generally a hard sell though. For me it really depends. Some just look so bland. Others have a unqie charm to them. I would take a farm shop on a case by case basis therefore, as it's not always an easy accept or reject.


    P.s. see here for recent Niantic comment on the definition of "locally uniqie":


    https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/27089/what-does-locally-unique-mean#latest

  • VladDraco-PGOVladDraco-PGO Posts: 555 ✭✭✭✭

    To elaborate a bit more :

    Farm shop are on farm lands, so ineligible.

    Other arguments don't matter, rejection criteria for PRP or farm are over any acceptance criterias.

  • Ganta3Crow9-PGOGanta3Crow9-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    So now it's one against and one for it.

  • 0X00FF00-ING0X00FF00-ING Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My answer will seem wishy-washy.

    Whether it's acceptable/eligible or not depends entirely on Niantic's definition of "PRP", which includes both single-family residential property and single-family farms.

    IF the "farm" in question is anything more than a privately owned farm, then locations at/on that farm may be eligible. But the onus is definitely on the submitter to prove so, as the vast majority of such stands ARE just for a bit of side cash for the farm owners. Does the farm have tours? It it a licensed place of business with a gift shop?

    Being in a region chock full of local wineries and (to phrase it badly) "grape farms", SOME could qualify, and SOME definitely don't. Some have self-serve fruit stands, both those that are part of wine-tasting tours, as well as those that just grow grapes to resell to wine factories.

    It's a fairly low bar, but it still must be met.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    I mean, personally i wold reject all but one, that one being Jeremy Clarksons one as that would defo meet the exploration criteria (it's most definitely somewhere I'd go put my way to go and take a friend etc.)


    As for the argument about it being on farm so prp, i think, as they're shops, they expect people to go to them, most would even have car parks at them, its not the same as gling onto someone's farm randomly (btw, in Scotland wr have right to roam, so the prp of farm technically wouldn't matter here in the same wag as, by law, we can go onto farmland so long as its not the bit crops are growing on. It's not that important, but I've seen a trig stone or 2 that is on farmland but is in the area where people have right to roam)

  • MelodyS88Chi-PGOMelodyS88Chi-PGO Posts: 625 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    It doesn't matter if they expect people to go to them. If it is a private farm, it is ineligible. The same applies to home based businesses. They are ineligible even if the business would be something eligible if it was located in a retail or commercial space. This is true even if the homeowner has a separate entrance for business customers other than the front door of their house. Niantic has the exclusion criteria for PRP including private farm land and they do not make exceptions.

  • niktero-PGOniktero-PGO Posts: 235 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    This runs into the issue of private or public. If they have a farm stall where they sell things to people coming by then they are setting up a business. This is a business run out of a home but still an actual business where they earn living money, not a kid's lemonade stand. I have no problem accepting these as long as the structure is up most of the year. They don't need to sell things year round but they do need to have set things up so they don't mind unfamiliar cars/ people dropping by. This is different from a farmhouse that has no stall and would consider any unfamiliar arrival to be trespassing. A business run from a home turns part of that area into public by default as long as it is the kind of business that has foot-traffic and is not all online. Private property is not an issue. Think of all the bakers who live overtop of their bakery or restaurants who do the same.

  • MelodyS88Chi-PGOMelodyS88Chi-PGO Posts: 625 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2021

    You are not Niantic so what you have no problem accepting despite it very clearly meeting exclusion criteria is irrelevant. Niantic has clarified that home based businesses are excluded under the PRP umbrella.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Except its a shop, it has customers all day and has a car park, that then would not be private but public. Its different from a home based business, as that home base business wouldn't be expecting people to park there for longer than a few minutes and would want rid of people after a certain time


    Also, you say there are no exceptions, but there are, they've already said it depends on the local law when it comes to things such as what's on the sidewalk in front of s House, in America people rejectbthings up to the road, but everywhere else the prp line ends at the start of the sidewalk, sidewalk is not prp so things are allowed there

  • Ganta3Crow9-PGOGanta3Crow9-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    In your opinion farm shops led by local farmers are generic businesses, chain stores, are you serious. Do you see a famous chain in the attached sources?

    It is a place for exploration when showing s.o. where to get local fruits, vegetables or local produced foods from.

    One learn about local produced goods and one can buy their products instead of going into the next supermarket and buying this same product from the other side of the globe. Eating locally and informing others does make them a great POI but also a great Wayspot.

    Maybe one can ask @NianticGiffard for a better clarification if this could be an exception of the PRP rule because they are locally unique shops.

    Shops ≠ PRP in my opinion.

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would not reject this shop because of PRP, I would reject it because it does not meet eligibility criteria:

    Does not meet eligibility criteria

    Does not seem to be a great place of exploration, place for exercise, or place to be social. The object is generic or not interesting.

  • Ganta3Crow9-PGOGanta3Crow9-PGO Posts: 20 ✭✭

    During an appeal a farm shop/ stand got accepted.

  • JillJilyJabadoo-PGOJillJilyJabadoo-PGO Posts: 635 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the update. There were a lot of interesting issues raised in this discussion, and it's nice to hear what the resolution was.

  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭✭✭

    LFLs on PRP by the sidewalk are not eligible, but fruit stands on PRP by the street are?

    Super.

  • MelodyS88Chi-PGOMelodyS88Chi-PGO Posts: 625 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Odds are fairly good though that if someone later reports it (and appeals here if rejected) and gives clear evidence it is on PRP, it will be removed even though it was approved on appeal by Niantic.

  • Cowyn2016-PGOCowyn2016-PGO Posts: 294 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not sure that the argument is quite so simple.

    Business in cities where the first floor is a business and the second floor is owners residence have been eligible.

    But Niantic has said "Home-based" business's are not eligible.

    Apple Orchards and other places where people walk through are privately owned farms too have been eligible.

    Seems a good spot for Niantic to be clear about "Ineligible Criteria"


    That said, unless the design was truly unique, I doubt it would make a stop because you'd have to convince people why its any more "Explore" or "Gather" worthy then the local fruit market.

  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4

    REJECTION CRITERIA

    In the U.S,

    • If a place is zoned commercial - it is not also zoned Single Family Residence or Single Family Farm Residence.
    • Conversely: If it is zoned Single Family Residence or Single Family Farm Residence - it can not legally have a shop, paid tours, etc.

    We reviewers don't check zoning maps, but we can check for clues. A car park (parking lot) and permanent signage are good clues that this stretch of land is zoned commercial. (Even if you see a house in the distance - it could be zoned differently.)

    ELIGIBLE CRITERIA

    If it's just a shop, it isn't eligible. But if they have tours, "pick your own", other events, or some kind of attraction to make it more than just a shop - it could be eligible.

    Post edited by MargariteDVille-ING on
  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zoning laws are not uniform across the US. I come from a very agricultural area in Central California, and I already know that there, most ag zoned property is already legally allowed to both have a single family residence and a place to sell what they grow. So the presence of a shop with a parking area by the road would not alter the fact that it’s a single family farm.

  • Oakes1923-INGOakes1923-ING Posts: 417 ✭✭✭✭

    Private farms that do not allow for public access are ineligible.

    A farm that has a public access to a farm stand or market do not meet rejection criteria (yet debatable that they would be accepted as they would still need to show they meet one of the three main eligibility criteria)

    A farm that has public access to a farm stand, ice cream stand, corn maze, petting zoo, or other attractions that are meant to draw the public in are 100% eligible and should be accepted without much debate.

    Zoning laws are not applicable as Niantic and the reviewers have no way to know what they are for a specific nomination.

  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can’t get on board with the “public access” division, as that’s the same argument made for LFLs on PRP, and we know those are not eligible, and PRP is the same rejection criterion whether house or farm.

    I know Niantic is going to chalk this up under ‘regional decisions’ but I find it astonishing that they’d approve a POI that meets established removal criteria.

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why is a "Farm Shop" and different from the local shop in the nearby town that also sells eggs, milk and carrots? I don't see how a generic shop of either type would meet any of the 3 Niantic acceptance criteria.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is something that should be judged on an individual basis.

    I'm not saying that everything is approved, but I'm not saying that everything is denied either.


    For example, it could be located outside of the farm, it could be accessed without entering the farm, it could be located on a farm, it could be located on a farm with a farmer's field.

    Permanent building, unique features, etc.


    If this is an example, it could be approved.


    But, if you have to enter the farm, can move, have no features, etc., I feel that you are more likely to be denied.

  • JillJilyJabadoo-PGOJillJilyJabadoo-PGO Posts: 635 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the farm shop made and sold local specialty products, and/or provided some kind of educational info about them, I could see it being a "great place to explore". The submitter would have to support that, of course.

    I think @X0bai-PGO's question of single-family farm shop vs LFL is a sticking point. Perhaps in this case Niantic decided it was a commercial farm and not a family farm?

  • Oakes1923-INGOakes1923-ING Posts: 417 ✭✭✭✭

    Agreed it would depend on the individual nomination. With the local examples I think of most of them would make great Wayspots. (and already do). But if the only public interaction is a farmer who sells "Fresh Eggs" on the side or has a single cart with fruit and veggies on the side of the road, then it's a no.

    Going back to the OP's example; Halberton's Farm (https://www.facebook.com/halbertonfarmshop/about) is a great example of a Farm based store where a case could easily be made for a Wayspot. Local grown veggies, local sourced meat, flowers, a cafe, looks like it may have a petting zoo. They do pick you own pumpkins in the fall and food truck every Wednesday. It is a private farm but it caters to the public and has a public front and promotes activity to engage with the public and encourage families to visit.

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