How to ruin an excellent submission with two small mistakes

Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,469 ✭✭✭✭✭

I just came across an excellent candidate that the submitter essentially ruined by making a couple of small errors. I'll walk through my workflow for reviewing it to show where they messed up and why those mistakes made my job as a reviewer so much more difficult.

Step 1: What's the thing I'm reviewing? It's a dedication plaque for the county's Emergency Services office building. The photo is reasonably good. The title is good. The description is reasonable. It's an excellent candidate. This is rock solid so far.


Step 2: Is it a duplicate? That's an easy no since there are no other wayspots close to it. (I didn't grab that map but take my word for it.)

Step 3: I gave it reasonable ratings for Historic or Cultural Significance and Visually Unique. Safe pedestrian access is a no-brainer 5* as it's an active office building, though there's a tiny chance I may change that once I verify the location.

Step 4: Let's confirm the location. Where is it? Houston, we have a problem. The pin is on the roof of the building even though the main photo shows that the plaque is on the ground outdoors.

Step 4.5: OK, fine. Let's see if we can find the correct location and move the pin to the proper place. I'll check the supporting info to see what help we have.


AARRRGGGHHHH! That is entirely unhelpful. It looks like the submitter just turned around and took a picture of stuff nearby without including the plaque itself. Here's a link to the full-res photo. OK, fine, I'm pretty annoyed at you right now submitter but I'll do extra work for you Let's see what we can pick out with street view and maybe that will give us a clue for finding it in satellite view.

Combining the supporting photo with street view suggests that the plaque is probably somewhere in the area near the red circle. Is that where the plaque is? Maybe. Can we prove it? It's a good candidate, so I'm not giving up yet.

Comparing the **** of grass and the pavement markings suggest that the support photo was taken somewhere in this general area.


Unfortunately, even at full zoom I can't spot a plaque. I can speculate about whether it's there, and I'm fairly certain it's in the general area, but I can't prove it. I would expect to see this plaque closer to the flagpole, which is bit left of the center of this screenshot, but the supporting photo was clearly taken from right of center. At this point I've run out clues and I'm about to time out on the review so I have to make a guess about what to do. This would have been so much easier if the submitter had taken care with either the pin placement or the supporting photo. I grabbed screenshots and links, made the best decision I could, and then posted this screed.


TL;dr:

* If the submitter had taken a supporting photo that showed the plaque in the larger context then I could have easily moved the pin to the right place.

* If the submitter had put the pin in the right place then I could have looked at the street view and supporting photo and said, "Yeah, it's probably pretty close to there" and given it a 3* for location accuracy.

USE YOUR SUPPORTING PHOTO TO CLEARLY SHOW THE CANIDATE IN THE LARGER CONTEXT OF ITS ENVIRONMENT!

Comments

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • CaptMcJay24-PGOCaptMcJay24-PGO Posts: 44 ✭✭✭

    How strange that you would approve this, besides the terrible pin location, what significance does an emergency service building have have to deserve a wayspot? I am not criticizing, i am just curious. Im still new to reviewing myself.


    I say this as I've had courthouses, and city halls not approved because theyre not "historically or culturally significant." Even though i see multiple wayspots in different cities with courthouses and city hall wayspots.

  • VladDraco-PGOVladDraco-PGO Posts: 560 ✭✭✭✭

    The nomination is not for the building (which as you said has no significance) but for an historical dedication plaque.

    Historical dedication plaques are the very first example when you check the Eligibility help page.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,469 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptMcJay24-PGO As @VladDraco-PGO said the submission is for the plaque rather than the building itself. Dedication plaques are historical artifacts and they easily qualify.

  • CaptMcJay24-PGOCaptMcJay24-PGO Posts: 44 ✭✭✭

    @Hosette-ING @VladDraco-PGO Hmmm i figured dedication plaques were to more historical artifacts like historic sites/buildings or a statue. Not really a government building that looks fairly recent. Good to be educated.


    Would you assume i would have a better chance of getting city halls and court houses approved if i submitted their building dedication plaques?

  • cyndiepooh-INGcyndiepooh-ING Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Niantic has said in both the September and December 2021 ama posts that a low score in this category cannot cause a rejection. However, people continue to get "not historically or culturally significant" as a rejection reason. Smarter folks than me have noticed that when a nomination gets this rejection reason, there is something nearby this could appear to be a duplicate of. If that applies in your situation, make sure to explain how your nomination is unique. If your area has duplicate check for in person nominations, be sure to look at it while you are there, even if you submit later, to see if there is something that is not showing in Pokemon Go that looks like the same nomination.

  • MelodyS88Chi-PGOMelodyS88Chi-PGO Posts: 627 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I disagree with calling this "an excellent submission". Even calling it okay would be overselling it.

  • VladDraco-PGOVladDraco-PGO Posts: 560 ✭✭✭✭

    @CaptMcJay24-PGO No in your cases, the building itself is an excellent nomination, the dedication plaque is a ok nomination but the buildings are way better. Same thing for statue. I will not accept a plaque on a statue, the wayfinder should propose it, not juste a plaque.

    I agree with @MelodyS88Chi-PGO , this is a good nomination. Not excellent, not ineligible, but decent, eligible. It a good nomination for a building not eligible by itself.

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2022

    I understand and kind of agree with those who aren't convinced this dedication plaque is really of historical interest. All it seems to do is say "this is when this was built, and these are the people who built it." It's just information (with a dose of self-advertisement); it doesn't really do anything to educate or explain what historical significance the building has.

  • CaptMcJay24-PGOCaptMcJay24-PGO Posts: 44 ✭✭✭

    Here's a recent plaque i got approved. It briefly explains that the church is the oldest catholic church of las vegas, that it has been rebuilt twice and the plaque was donated by the international catholic committee. At least in a way that plaque is educational. These are the sorta dedicated plaques i perceived as the kind of plaques niantic is talking about.


    Like you stated this plaque just states a random contractor lol. Quick google search says it was only built back in 2020.

  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    See https://wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/new/criteria/eligibility

    It says "historical plaques". In other words, this is where a battle happened, or a famous person was born.

    It does not say "historical dedication plaques".

    (A) This plaque doesn't tell us about the history of that spot. It tells us that some people did their job a couple years ago. Millions of people do their jobs. (B) Dedication plaques are BORING. Not something to explore. Not a gathering place. Not promoting exercise.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Think you've confused the exploration thing, it also includes intetesting/cool things to find while exploring, which this arguably is. I think op is correct that if there was a better supporting photo and the pin was in the right place it would be q slam dunk

  • MelodyS88Chi-PGOMelodyS88Chi-PGO Posts: 627 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Then arguably just about every generic building in most cities is an interesting thing to find while exploring.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    Does every building have a plaque?


    I'm mildly indifferent on it. This is one of those things that feels categorically eligible, but might be my OPR reviewing coming through. I agree it can encourage exploration, but the screenshot provided doesn't appear to provide enough detail as to why it's important. An emergency services operations center is clearly important to the community, but if the plaque representing the building is eligible then the building itself should be and I don't think it is.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, cause they are generic buildings, maybe it's different in your country, but we don't have many plaques in my area, so finding one is usually quite cool

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,469 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Plaques tell a story, and this particular one documents a moment in time. For this particular case it's not the most dramatic moment in time but it's still far more interesting and unique than yet another trail marker or playground.

  • TWVer-INGTWVer-ING Posts: 792 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Wayfarer experience would be so much better if people realized not everyone has the same interests. To me trail markers are the most interesting wayspots in the game. I don't care about plaques. That doesn't make one more interesting than the other. It's just personal preference. It would be great if everyone just left their preferences outside of Wayfarer.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Purposefully, the objective of Wayfarer is to expose explorers to many different sorts of things. Within Wayfarer, there are many types of cliques or special interest groups. Some enjoy reading the history of things. Some enjoy artworks, murals and sculptures. Others more enjoy city heritage and looking for heritage-listed building. Even further still might enjoy small-scale gyms or karate dojos. And even a super small minority might enjoy travelling to trig points on high mountain ranges and put in entries on logbooks.

    Now we have an example of a logbook case on top of Mt Cloudmaker. The majority of regular reviewers will wonder what on earth is a logbook case?! It looks like... just a random iron box in the middle of the wilderness. What they might not know is the adventure to get to this logbook, the great views seen along the way, and the meaning behind the logbook. In this day and age, the person hypothetically nominating this logbook case would have to make a very strong argument in support for this approval since there is evidence that many reviewers do not understand the concept of trig points.

    Some enjoy many things and preferences far more than anything. Looking at this submission, this plaque captures the occasion of a commemorative opening which was dedicated by the Grand Master of Masons in California. You can see a full image of this plaque here. It might seem not like much, but this dedication plaque also appreciates the efforts of the local Masonic Lodge and civic involvement with the freemasons. I find myself earnestly seeking out plaques during my day to day walk to see small tidbits of historical events and occasions captured within engraved text. Like this description of Fran Lebowitz that often remarks:

    In fact, she looks at the ground a lot, in hopes of finding another sidewalk plaque -- the Easter Eggs of New York City, if you will. Except, unlike a cryptic coded message in a Taylor Swift song, these are plain as day, if not a bit forgotten and overlooked by 99% of the people who pass them.

    Nothing is inexplicably ineligible, but it is up to the submitter to win over the bulk majority of other reviewers as to why something just has to be a wayspot.

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2022

    I'm not going to say anyone who accepts this is wrong, but I personally would need more convincing that it actually meets the exploration criteria. I don't see it as much different than the dedication plaques that are on every single road bridge in my area. All those ever seem to be is a list of the public officials and private companies taking credit for building the bridge--nothing describing the historical context of the bridge project, nothing educational about the design and construction of the bridge, just a date and a list of names. Of course, some of them still get approved, but I tend to vote "no" on them.

    This seems to be the same thing for a municipal building. But as usual, I could be convinced otherwise with a writeup presenting some additional, verifiable information. (Also, just from the screenshot, the plaque isn't entirely legible, so if there's more to it, I may be missing it.)

  • M42-INGM42-ING Posts: 45 ✭✭✭

    I totally agree with the Supporting photo point, I've been calling this out for ages. I've actually got a comment saved that I use all the time for reviews that don't have the actual submission in the Supporting picture. Surely they must know. I feel that a lot of these aren't actually legit where they claim them to be.

  • JillJilyJabadoo-PGOJillJilyJabadoo-PGO Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The problem with rejecting a plaque on a statue in preference to the statue is that too many reviewers want plaques. While I would much prefer the statue, I won't reject the plaque because the poor submitter has likely been told again and again they need to submit plaques and signs for things, not the actual things. This is the fault of reviewers so I won't hold it against a submitter.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Really? People want plaques for statues over the statues themselves? Never heard of that one, around here we just submit the statue and paraphrase the information on the plaque if there is any, obviously not copying word for word, but give a watered down cliff notes version

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,469 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2022

    @JillJilyJabadoo-PGO I'm with @Gazzas89-PGO. I've never heard of people preferring a plaque over artwork. The plaque can be a good supporting photo if you're sure that the candidate can easily be found by reviewers in street and satellite view, since the plaque backs up your information about artist/title/etc.

  • JillJilyJabadoo-PGOJillJilyJabadoo-PGO Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gazzas89-ING @Hosette-ING I didn't mean that reviewers prefer plaques and signs for statues, but many do prefer them for buildings, memorials, etc.

    The poster I replied to said they would reject a plaque submitted for a statue (in place of the statue). I replied I would not reject it because submitters often get the advice "Is there a sign you could submit instead?" when a submission is rejected. Someone submitting a plaque for a statue probably saw this advice everywhere and got confused. I would accept the plaque and hope that someone does a photo edit to switch the statue to the main photo after it is in game.

    (This is assuming the POI is submitted as "Statue", with a picture of the plaque, not as "Plaque for Statue".)

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