Going to need 30 appeals per month not 1

ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

All but one of my nominations has been rejected in the last two weeks. They weren't bad nominations.

Wasted an upgrade on this:


Spent 10 mins trying to get the best angle possible and avoid people in the picture. I dare anyone to have gotten a better Poi photo under the conditions of the day and time I happened to be there. Plaques are shiny.

The location is spot on.

I'm just such an idiot trying to add things to this stupid dumb database. Reviewers want to fail POIs

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Comments

  • ElwynGreygoose-INGElwynGreygoose-ING Posts: 244 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2022

    For better or for worse, there is a feedback loop operating now.

    The quality of photos improves... so reviewers get used to seeing great photos, and are more likely to reject less-good ones (even if they are still acceptable)... so submitters take better photos... so reviewers get used to seeing even better photos... and so on.

    As for the location, that usually means the reviewer could not immediately verify the location from your supporting photo, or from GSV. It doesn't mean you put it in the wrong location.

    There is a disconnect between what the reviewer wants to say, and the options they have at their disposal. What they mean (probably) in this case is "I can't find it".

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would gleefully take your challenge to get a better photo of that. Avoiding those reflections would be a cakewalk.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    Got more rejects over the day .... Check out this doozy:

    This one too:


    Could accept if people thought it was not fancy enough but temporary display? Low quality photo?

    What is going on!!!!!

  • HankWolfman-PGOHankWolfman-PGO Posts: 4,857 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For Gaddes Park, the "not historic or culturally important" reason is theorised to occur when some reviewers mark it as a duplicate, but not enough do so to actually trigger the duplicate message. My guess is that whilst it's a separate map, some reviewers marked it as a duplicate of this:


  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭


    oh ok. but wow. obviously pretty inexperienced niantic gamers must be reviewing at them moment. Bikeway maps are slam dunks usually in Brisbane. The red 'you are here' that marks the maps generally pretty clear these are unique maps. Just go accross the tracks and up a bit to Brittian Park and Beryl Roberts Park added a gazzillion of these maps no drama. The signs at Gaddes were damaged when I went to photograph them 2-3 years ago else they would have already become portals and a gym triggering stop in the September 2019 or March 2020 backlog clears.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    Pretty standard accept here in Australia for opening plaques of major buildings. Hospital campuses and university campuses.

    Don't carry a polarizing filter can typically make do with an angle.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The map is a bs rejection, resubmit it


    The lights though, yeah, thats not gonna pass, it doesn't meet any criteria

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    Despite the focus on what I could have done better. These are still worthy of appeal and I am going to need 30 per month. Even the lights which were 50/50 for eligibility. yet near by examples would indicate that this may be an eligible

    I think there are 2 types of nominators casual nominator and the serious systematic nominator. Wayfarer is cruel to those serious systematic nominators.

    Everything has been knocked back. My nominations are good enough and Niantic really should help me out because I am in tears about this again. I'm going to have to quit again ... niantic gets a lot out of neurodiverse nominators just don't think they get how toxic the process is for some of us.

    It's just awful. There's so much data correction to do. So many POIs to add. People just don't care. The pogo folk don't add many things. I thought I was redundent when pogo got nominations. But all these POIs remain not added almost 2.5 years later. It rankles a lot that I can see the scope of the work but can't get to it but in dribs and drabs. This is the community where I live and the data is incomplete and inaccurate - it's incredibily frustrating, embarrassing. Argh I'm totally revealing wayfarering is autistic special interest for me.

    Just ....Gaddes park has 4 bikeway maps, 3 park signs, 2 Bushcare signs, 1 foot bridge - not just a 1 foot bridge and 1 bikeway map. There's a gym to be made too. And don't get me started on the infill pois that need to be added because the 20m rule does not seem to apply these days. Please just let me get it done!

  • JillJilyJabadoo-PGOJillJilyJabadoo-PGO Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd guess for 90% of submissions, submitters think they're slam-dunks and would definitely appeal. Niantic doesn't have enough workers to support that volume of appeals, so we're just going to have to tweak and resubmit most submissions as we did before the appeals system.

    Imho, the best strategy is to use appeals on things that are either difficult to get back to or where the local community consistently ignores (or is unaware of) one of Niantic's clarifications. As more of these types of stops make it into the game on appeal, reviewers will start to see them in games and they will likely become easier to get accepted.

    It's going to be a long process since most reviewers don't read forums and Niantic doesn't like direct communication. We (as submitters) are just going to have to be patient. (Or find a less stressful hobby, as @Gendgi-PGO noted.)

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    Yes, to circle back to "Going to need 30 appeals per month." I think "1 appeal per 30 days" is arbitrary and should be revisited once Niantic has a better understanding of what is getting appealed and who is doing it.

    Out of over 700 nominations I want to appeal about 20. There's a fair mix of "this is a categorical playground wrongly rejected" and "I understand that the Satellite view wasn't updated but should have been fine." I don't like that it will take almost 2 years to appeal them, plus whatever else I pick up along the way.

    Perhaps we can encourage Niantic to data collect and reconsider how appeals are distributed.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    @Gendgi-PGO 500 nominations too late. 4.5years. Too neurodiverse to know how to escape. Got enough sense to see the train not enough sense to get off the tracks.

    I have added 2% of the new portals in the greater Brisbane area despite being "taking a break" some of the time. Niantic has made thousands off me.

    My perspective on playgrounds is because I use them a lot. Big district playgrounds with multiple items should have multiplie pois.

    My little free library perspective is nuanced I know where 3 are located with 1.5 km of my house ... but I would only consider submiting one as it has a high fence seperating it from the house which is situated right next to a park.

    My perspective on estates names on brick work is informed how they get accepted by others here in my area of the world - there's only so many arguments you have with your fellow pogo people before you go nuts and join them.

    Most of my nianticing is in the suburbs not much culture around. We have traffic box art, parks, churches. LFL and footbridges have been a godsend.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,560 Ambassador

    If these are local to you and you believe they're eligible, I'd resubmit instead of appeal. For the plaque, I'd bring along a large golf umbrella in case of Too Much Sun to eliminate the reflections. The Bike Map could use some additional salesmanship, maybe naming it as a map in the title and adding some additional descriptive text. The Gable is imho your toughest sell, and I agree it might be hard to categorize as eligible - is there a story behind it? Did a famous artist design or construct it? As much as I enjoy architectural elements as candidates (I like to explore such things, and I don't believe that "explore" criteria should be confined to backwoods trails or scenic viewpoints - how many people search for Hidden Mickeys at Disney parks?), lighting displays generally have to be strong enough standalone artistic objects to overcome the widespread bias against any photo taken at night.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭


    ah yes bias against night time photos ... I forgot that being a mainly a park things submitter.... yes that's why they said low quality photo. cheers for that insight. Still lights are best seen at night argh!

    As to the tempory or seasonal rejection ... street view shows the gable light over a different resturant name ... sigh.

    Reviewers don't take the same care I do when I review do they. Lol.

    The gable is a bit of bling on a otherwise non descript little shopping centre. I would pass it if it wasn't my nomination but I wouldn't expect it to pass it I was submitting it. Would have been happy with "Other rejection criteria" and would have popped it onto my low priority resubmit pile to give it a 3rd and final go.

  • 26thDoctor-PGO26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 4,924 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know it seems silly but I've learnt, after enough rejections, to look for any reasons reviewers will reject something as much as they will accept something.

    If I don't get the photo or title spot on it's tricky to change reviewers ' this is a rejection' first impression irrespective of the submissions actual quality.

  • MargariteDVille-INGMargariteDVille-ING Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think you shouldn't be able to appeal anything originally submitted in the past six months.

    (1) LOTS of good nominators don't get their initial response in six months - why should someone who happens to be in a fast area, get a response AND an appeal?

    (2) Six months give the nominator some experience, so they can probably submit it better. Or, they may realize it's not a good wayspot after all.

    (3) The troll nominators probably won't be around in six months.

  • ElwynGreygoose-INGElwynGreygoose-ING Posts: 244 ✭✭✭✭

    This is the answer. Every time you get a rejection, you go through every single aspect of your nomination with a fine-tooth comb and make absolutely certain you have done your best possible work.

    Is it a great photo? Is the title not only unique and detailed, but so compelling that the reviewer will sit up and take an interest? Does the description make this POI sound worth visiting, and effectively convey, one way or another, why it meets one of the criteria? Does your supporting photo include the POI and prove its location? Does your supporting information include proof of any claims you made in your description? Have you made a photosphere, if necessary?

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2022

    @The26thDoctor-PGO Yes! I've seen countless complaints from people who have had "good submissions" rejected. Sometimes the issue is that their candidate actually wasn't very good but it's often the case that they found a good candidate and presented it so badly that reviewers couldn't approve it. A little bit of extra effort in presenting submissions well can make a huge difference. Knock wood, I've had a 100% acceptance rate since I figured this out.

    And yes, there are places where local cabals/bot reviewers change the equation. In most of the world, though, it seems people are reviewing in good faith.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,560 Ambassador

    I currently have four things that I appealed - one (a four-hour drive away) has been processed and accepted. Another one of those is quite distant at an airport in another state, no idea if I'll ever be back at that specific gate again. I have one local one that I appealed just to verify that appeals could be applied more frequently than stated, and I can't withdraw it - this one was rejected multiple times by local voters and I truly cannot understand why. The last is a rather unlovely but eligible object that I just can't make any prettier and so hope will be approved by criteria rather than artistic merit.

    The vast majority of my local rejections have later been approved after correction and resubmission. Around here it may take four or five tries to get hard-sell candidates through, while identical Welcome To Suburbtown signs at every town border go though rapidly. Since it's easy enough to revisit and improve, that's generally what I do.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    @Hosette-ING - basic maths - huh. 1 submission a day for both pogo and ingress makes an easy 60 nominations per month. Since emails started coming from "notices" I have had only 19 out of 49 pass thats a 60% fail rate. So yes going to need 30 appeals.

    In the 6 km around me there are hundreds of pois still to nominate. -

    at least 40 accepted too close to another portals

    at least 40 preexisting park items I didn't get around to nominating/renominating

    at least 30 pois that were too close to existing pois so I didn't bother.

    at least 30 new park items

    for example:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=310930090847317&set=a.213073093966351

    at least 5 traffic signal boxes.

    for example

    "at least" because that's what I can name on top of my head.

    @tehstone-ING I understand the status quo is to accept things take multiple tries - but that's getting really really old.

    I'm pathethic and going to back to bed.

  • JillJilyJabadoo-PGOJillJilyJabadoo-PGO Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hosette-ING's calculation wasn't that you would need fewer than 30 appeals to appeal everything you have personally had rejected. Her calculation was pointing out that (basically) if everyone appeals everything without limits, then Niantic would need enough people processing the appeals that Niantic could have just have processed all the original submissions themselves.

    The point is that 30 appeals a month will never happen, so you're just wasting your time worrying about it. You need to find a different strategy. The only one I can see is tweaking the nominations and re-submitting, but maybe there's one I just don't see.

  • tehstone-INGtehstone-ING Posts: 1,154 Ambassador

    I definitely agree, but the only improvement is to continue doing what you can to educate reviewers around you or give up and retry or stop altogether.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ZinkyZonk-ING I think Niantic's limit on appeals is designed so that people choose their appeals carefully instead of appealing every single thing that gets rejected.

    Honestly, I don't have one single thing in my submission history (which is eight years long at this point) that I would choose to appeal. The one thing that frustrated me a couple of years ago became a learning experience in how to do a better job of submitting things that are challenging for reviewers.

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