20m rule, is it really needed?

Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

So for the last couple of months in ingress, the 20m rule was gone and several people found that interesting things could be submitted without fear of it never appearing everyone was happy. Then the sync fail happened, and people let biantic know, still thinking the 20m rule was gone forever but nope, it returned, and a lot of people on here and the ingress forum are rightly peeved.


I believe the 20m rule was for pre prime days, when there wasn't an option to select the portal you want in the game, but now there is so ghe question becomes, is the 20m rule necessary anymore? The reason it was introduced now no longer exists, the last few months have proven it isn't needed now, so should niantic have brought it back?


I know this is probably shouting into the hurricane, but I figured it would be worth opening a thread on here, letting people give their views and hopefully @NianticDanbocat @NianticTintino and @NianticGiffard can give their views, and five the feedback from this thread to the relevant people, letting go go know that we don't want (or maybe do want) the 20m rule anymore, and that in our opinion (or mine at least) its just meaning there will be hundreds of thousands of pois not being submitted as there's no point

«134

Comments

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would also be good to hear from the wayfarer ambassadors (and they also bring this uo at their meetings or whatever they have to do)

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As far as i cam tell, the 20m rule isn't in pogo at all, probably never was as originally it took its stops from the ingress game map, so if a portal didn't exist because of 20m, pogo never got it, but there was a few months before the 20m rule left ingress that stops within 20m were coming in so long as they met the cell rules

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    I think, just like any of the complaints about PoGO inclusion and S2 restrictions, there's a case to be made about how spacing restrictions in games affect Wayfarer by adding "unnecessary" review time and/or "wasting" upgrades and also end up "encouraging" abuse of people gaming placement on the map.

    I also think almost every complaint that has been made so far on the Wayforum is only about inclusion to the games, not anything to do with Wayfarer and should be being brought up on the Ingress forum for their community, Vanguards, and dev/Niantic team to discuss.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    I had my response typed up before reading your comment, but basically parallels my thoughts, too.

    However, I'll add that when I've pushed the narrative on PoGO restrictions (I have before and tried to bring it up in an AMA) it was in a Wayfarer focus. I believe my question was similar to "What sort of lessons learned and takeaways have the Wayfarer dev team learned from how restrictions in popular games affect the Wayfarer map and, and what sort of feedback are they able to return to those dev teams to help mitigate excessive duplicates and such abuse?"


    The S2 and 20m restrictions DO affect Wayfarer, but most of the complaints in this thread and similar ones don't address that, just how they are back in "misery."

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Weirdly, one of the xm ambassadors said it should be brought up here 🤣🤣 hopefully this isn't a pass the problem lol


    While I don't like the pogo spqcing, I do understand it's need to an extent, stops, gyms, pokemon, rocket grunts, these are all on the map amd there's no easy selection method, but ingress does have one and the portals are not big, so it doesn't make as much sense

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    Now that Lightship is the main repository of Waypoints, it seems logical that the Ingress inclusion is decided by the Ingress side server/app and their associated team. Maybe the logic is coded into Lightship, but it seems more clear based on that separation and NianticThia's response that it is an Ingress decision and not (necessarily) a Wayfarer one.

    Sorry about the runaround between sites. I saw your note about bringing it up as an Ambassador. I personally don't have as strong of an opinion on the 20m wrt Ingress, but I've shared in my above posts why I do feel it is a Wayfarer problem. This topic will be discussed more, but it would be nice to see more people in here contributing to why it's a Wayfarer issue than simply for Ingress.

  • TheAuraStorm-INGTheAuraStorm-ING Posts: 92 ✭✭✭✭

    I posted this in reply to the announcement to the Ingress forum:


    Really bad move on Niantic. Since new wayspots were going into Ingress, within 20 metres, this has been fantastic from a Wayfarer perspective. 

    I and many others in the UK wayfarer community have had our passion for discovering new places reignited. 

    Since December, I have been able to add dozens of amazing points of interest to the network that would have otherwise not seen the light of day, this was why I started OPR and Wayfarer years ago. 

    Others who share my enthusiasm, have driven hundreds of miles, spending days just visiting new places, just to be able to add amazing places in our world to YOUR network, Niantic, for everyone to enjoy.

    If I’m not mistaken, this is your aim? Promoting exercise, exploration and being social with others. It feels like a kick in the teeth to have put in all this effort for the rug to have been pulled out from underneath.

    In the queue and voting, I have over 30 candidates - great and genuine points of interest: pubs, historic buildings, mile markers, sculptures, education boards - all that would just get added to your network, but with no benefit to Ingress.

    As others have said, the lack of communication is on of Niantic’s shortcomings. We’re supposed to in a new age, where break downs of communication were a thing of the past, but here we are.

    This is probably going to fall on deaf ears, but this was a bad decision. A very bad one. 

    Hopefully, myself and others expressing our views constructively may help this decision to be reversed, but this very anti-community decision has lost a great deal of good-will from the Wayfarer community- the very people who Niantic owes its network and successes to.


    I stand by this statement and hope someone at Niantic will reconsider their stance.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Simplest answers to whybit could pertain to wayfarer are


    Less submissions will be put in cause why bother if they won't appear in any game, I know future games may, but just now ingress has the most pois on the map. So having it gone would be beneficial from that sense to wayfarer


    Less abuse fron the ingress side (pogo will have its own abuse)


    Those 2 alone could at keast warrant wayfarers inclusion in the discussion

  • mortuus-INGmortuus-ING Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2022

    really sad to hear the 20m rule wasnt intended, means that alot of valid submissions in dense areas is no longer possible. so i will need to withdraw a few whats the point waste upgrade if it will only be rejected too close existing.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And if they would reduce the distance restrictions for Ingress, why shouldn't they do the same for every other game?

  • Stephyypooke-INGStephyypooke-ING Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As it stands currently, the only way to see these approved nominations at all is in our personal contributions list on the wayfarer website, and on the map displayed while submitting new Pokestops.

    And unfortunately, our personal contributions list might not even be an accurate portrayal of the Lightship poi since it only shows the original submitted location of a poi, it no longer updates to the accepted location if it is moved during review.

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 5,482 Ambassador

    @WheelTrekker-ING

    I think it’s the same fundamental issue.

    Each game has its own rules and this was a hiccup applying the one in Ingress.

    Ingress players are now back to where they were before.

    in both ingress and pogo the spacing rules affects wayfarer. Although the submitting etc is meant to be separate from if it will appear in either game, there are few that will go to the effort if there is little chance of it appearing. So a lot of PoGo players will ignore a potential POI ( it uses resources in terms of submissions, time and effort ). The same applies to Ingress players it’s less than 20m - so yes it will go in the database but you will never have the satisfaction of interacting with it.

    So yes it’s essentially the same and it does affect the overall database.

  • Kellerrys-INGKellerrys-ING Posts: 696 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WheelTrekker-ING

    Could someone explain me how applying again the 20m rule that had been working for so long is so different with regards to wayfarer to what the Pokemon players have been facing since day one such that only ONE wayspot in a S2 L17 cell is visible in their game?

    Sure. Even after reapplying...

    20 meters distance restriction is somewhat logical, intuitive and often "works" in real world. Causes rarely surprises and frustration for submitters

    S2 cell restriction is crude, non intuitive and in (too many) real world situations doesn't exactly work. Causes constantly surprises and frustration for nominators.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    How did this thread get to nearly 30 replies with nobody expressly pointing out that this conversation is in the wrong place

    My comment would disagree with you.

    I also think almost every complaint that has been made so far on the Wayforum is only about inclusion to the games, not anything to do with Wayfarer and should be being brought up on the Ingress forum for their community, Vanguards, and dev/Niantic team to discuss.

    Despite that comment, I do think it's short sighted to completely ignore this as not being a Wayfarer issue.

  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your comment is wrong.

    This conversation has no relevance to PoGo, Pikmin, or future games. This is Ingress-only. The admins here have no influence over the issues at hand. This belongs in the Ingress forum.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is being spoken about in the ingress forum but if you had bothered to read the thread, you would have seen that, as well as gendgi saying it maybe should have been in ingress, and me listing 2 reasons for why it could be wayfarer related

Sign In or Register to comment.