Incentive to submit Wayspots from a PoGO, Ingress and Wayfarer-perspective
dustinyeeaah-PGO
Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭✭
As you might know, there was a certain time frame (late 2021 - february 2022) where the the notorious 20m rule was gone. This was a welcomed chance for Wayfinders to go out and explore again. It was now possible to get Wayspots to show up in Ingress and PoGo, even if they are less than 20m away from an existing Portal (Wayspots that show up in Ingress).
Now the 20m rule is back and I thought about the reasons why I submit Wayspots (rewards will be formatted in bold). tldr at the end.
Pokemon GO - perspective
I started with PoGO in 2019 and after some research, I found out about cells. Knowing the game will only allow one Wayspot per S2 Level 17 cell, I submitted only one nomination per cell, because there is no incentive as a PoGO player to submit more than one, because only the first one will show up in the end. What do I get from successfully submitting Wayspots and playing PoGO? Well, in the best case scenario, the PokeStop/Gym will be added to the game board. Great. I also get bragging rights, because my name will be displayed on the picture of the PokeStop/Gym in PoGO.
What do I get if the accepted nomination doesn't show up in PoGO? Well, I get nothing, but it might be added to Ingress and it will be added to the Lightship database.
Ingress - perspective
In 2021 I also rediscovered Ingress and I wanted to get to rank 10, so that I can submit more Wayspots AND I also really liked the "Portals Discovered"-Counter. If one of my nominations is accepted and it shows up in Ingress, this counter will increase by 1. Such a simple but effective implementation! Other Agents (playerbase of Ingress) can visit my profile and see that I have created random_number of Portals. I also get the specific Portal key as an ingame reward and 1.000 AP (experience points in Ingress). Another positive aspect ist that my name will be displayed on the picture of the Portal for other Agents to see (Again, bragging rights).
What do I get if the accepted nomination doesn't show up in Ingress? Well, it will be added to the Lightship database.
Wayfarer - perspective
What happens if one of my nominations is accepted in Wayfarer? Well, it shows up as accepted in the contributions-page. I might get access to the hidden number of all my accepted nominations, but I need an inofficial userscript for this.
Conclusion
Being a Wayfinder, I want to populate the world by adding interesting Wayspots to the Niantic games and the Lightship database. What I realised is, if my Wayspot nomination is not added in the respective Niantic game, from a player-perspective I don't get anything at all. Hence, there is no incentive to submit nominations, if they won't be added to the game I'm playing.
So why should I nominate these candidates? They will be added to the Lightship database and if for whatever reason one of the Wayspots in Ingress/PoGO will be deleted or their location edited, they might get replaced by one of the Wayspots in the Lightship database. I actually don't know if this is true, so please tell me if you do.
In my opinion, there should be more incentives to submit in PoGO and in Wayfarer. This is not a PoGO-forum, so won't talk about it that much. I just think PoGO-players should get ingame rewards like it's happening in Ingress (Maybe Rare Candy XL? ^^). Also, add a counter like the Portals discovered-stat.
Now let's move on to incentives as a Wayfinder. It's not enough. Please let us see extended Wayfarer Stats like total nominations accepted. Also, I'm thinking about other rewards. Upgrades come to mind. Maybe 1 Upgrade every 10 accepted Wayspots? Does this sound reasonable? Let me know what you think!
tldr:
- From a player-perspective, I don't have an incentive to submit Wayspots that won't make it to the game I'm playing
- Rewards for submitting Wayspots for PoGO-players too little, make it like in Ingress
- From a Wayfarer-perspective, I have bragging rights for every accepted nomination and nothing else. Let me earn rewards like Upgrades
Comments
I think the profile metric should be game-agnostic and be reported as Wayspots Discovered.
In-game rewards are tricky because they create an abuse incentive. There are already parts of the world where multiple accounts (which belong to one or several humans, it's hard to tell) band together to make their own rules and often build up areas with tons of fake wayspots. If accounts could load up on goodies by submitting and approving a lot of fakes then I am 100% certain that this would cause an increase in abuse. FWIW, the only thing Ingress players get other than a stat is a key to their newly-discovered portal. There's no perfect analog in PoGo because the gameplay is so different but the closest approximation would be a gift from their newly-discovered stop/gym.
I thought on this too. Where Ingress gets a key and Pokémon GO players don’t get an additional item. However, there’s now the Postcard Book.
It could be that you get it as a Postcard in there if approved. A key in Ingress is useful, but also serves as a memento to say you discovered it, so the same applies with the Postcard.
Personally, my priority is
1. Pogo, I'll like for pokestops first and foremost and rhats what I'll use my submissions on first
2. After I've exhausted the pokestops, then I'll submit portals
Thats its, if it won't appear in those 2 games, I don't bother, cause ingress will most likely have the most waypoints, if uts not in the games, I'm not doing it for naiantics benefit only, they already make enough money as is don't need me doing free work for them for no gain for me
Another thought on perspectives, what about from the view of a player of Pikmin Bloom, or Transformers: Heavy Metal? If they can eventually submit, what’s a good in game reward for them?
As for my main thing when submitting, it was Pokémon GO as my focus via Ingress but as I got more into Ingress, that became my focus so that I didn’t let good nominations go un-submitted just because it wouldn’t make a new PokéStop.
Such a shame, but I haven't thought about abuse at all. The idea with the gift is nice..."A gift from your newly added PokéStop/Gym". Sounds good!
@PkmnTrainerJ-ING there could be something like an extra category for my added PokéStops/Gyms in the postcard book! Maybe then I would use this feature more often...I also like the idea of the visual presentation (pictures of the Wayspots).
I can only speak of Pikmin Bloom and something rare like blue nectar comes to my mind.
Y'all forget the human non-game element.
Creating wayspots, and adding pictures, feeds my creative side. There is satisfaction in a wayspot well-created, or enhanced.
It's also altruistic. Hopefully I'll visit it at least once for the unique capture, and get the unique drone visit - but sometimes I don't even get that much out of it. Either way, I added a spot for others to see and enjoy... maybe learn something about the location.
I'd love if the counter re-calculated to both of my linked accounts (PGO and Ingress) and populated that into both games.
I submitted on PGO before I got into Ingress, and I'd love to have the counter of all approved wayspots available on both profiles.
This might be coming soon with the recent introduction of the Niantic ID. I'm curious to see how this will be implemented!
Very good point! I like to find out information when I submit Wayspots, I want my nominations to be informative and nice to look at. It's the nicest part of being a Wayfinder, I learnt a lot about my area and I've been visiting places I might have never been to! Sometimes I even add photos or submit another description if I feel like it!
there needs to be a clear vision:
There are totally different basic needs and motives
One Basic need:
Wayfarer Database (Lightship) needs to be able to move quicker. Contributions have to be online in days, not in WEEKS, YEARS OR Decades.
My only incentive now is I enjoy finding things people haven't found yet, so mostly they are in the middle of nowhere which encourages me to visit new places and go on long walks.
When pogo first came out, I did do some local submissions so pogo would have more stops and gyms but more for other people than myself.
Ingress has always been the main game I played and tbh, I dont want or require more stops particularly as it makes no difference to my game play or benefit me in any way. But at the same time the POI appearing in the game is what makes me submit.
I have more fun exploring places than playing ingress these days and to be honest, without wayfarer and submissions I wouldn't be playing ingress now. The submission problems and abusive rejection waves is making me want to stop submitting and at that point im probably done with Niantics games completely
My drive is to submit things I can use or benefit from. That means I first submit things that will become pokestops then submit ingress things and only if I am working on a project and feeling compelled to make it perfect would I submit lightship only POI. If Niantic wants to increase their waypoint map then they need to work more on the psychology of why people submit things in the first place. As it stands pogo people will only fill an area to a certain density then move on. Ingress people can add more to that area but their gameplay is not dependent on adding everything they possibly could so they are less inclined to fill areas. The fact is people want to see that their nominations have an effect on the game board and so many pogo players get frustrated, quit, or submit endless duplicates because their nomination gets accepted but they never see any difference in their game.
One answer to this that would not disrupt the effort to reward ratio of the games is to add the unused waypoints as purely aesthetic features on the game board. They would be visible so when people submit things that won't be used in that game they get a visual confirmation that they made something happen and would deter people from submitting things that already exist in the database. It would also allow people to edit POI that they otherwise would not be able to interact with including Lightship only POI. Make them inert like pokestop photos are until players reach level 38 and pass the test. Then they can be clicked on and edited like other POI.
In pogo imagine every unused waypoint becomes a patch of grass or a berry ****. They add visual appeal and since historically spawn points were influenced by Ingress XM then they could also indicate the likely places to find Pokémon spawns. It does nothing to effect gameplay but it looks interesting and rewards people who submit things in places that would not result in a new pokestop. It does not have to be large enough for pokemon to hid behind but could be as simple as a floor texture change or pattern that would not interfere with spawns.
Ingress could get some kind of lightshow or color spot change. I have less experience with ingress lore so am open to suggestions.
As a pogo player I would love to have comparable rewards to what ingress players get when their nominations get approved.
-A post card from approved waypoints (ingress gets keys)
-A number added to a contributions badge and ideally this is tied to my Niantic profile so syncs across all games (bragging rights)
-A small XP gain like say 5,000 xp (equivalent to beating a 3* raid, evolving 5 pokemon or 5 excellent throws)
I'd love to get a gift from a new wayspot I created which appears in Pokemon Go. I think 500 XP should be the max XP as a reward if any is given, as it should be a token non-strategic amount - basically the amount gained by spinning a new Pokestop, like Ingress rewards a capture/deploy action. There should be no new Objects Created badge in Pogo but it could be a stat displayed on profile pages if anything - Ingress has no such badge, just a stats line. The Wayfarer badge in Pogo's platinum level was set much too low to start with so if a new badge level is ever introduced, Onyx should be significantly higher, around 10k reviews.
I do think that AP rewards for Photo additions and Edits should be removed from Ingress if they still exist. Many players in my area submit marginal photos and minor capitalization edits just to get AP, and it's a waste of my time as a reviewer. Edit to make things better for everyone, not just for you.....that's just my opinion, of course.
I play both games, Pokemon Go more heavily but Ingress is a joy to me as well. When I submit, I submit what I want regardless of what game it may or may not appear in: I figure if it's too close, or in a crowded cell, then I may need a modicum of patience as older objects may be removed in the future which would allow my hidden waypoint to show in game or games. I do fully acknowledge Niantic's right, as owners of the database and linked games, to utilize my input in any way they wish - regardless of the benefits to me personally or players of the games I enjoy. I submit Waypoints because I like finding cool, undiscovered stuff out there in the world. Game benefit is definitely a secondary motivation for me.
Recent actions have caused me to feel very de-incentivised from submitting wayspots. For example:
Eventually there will be Niantic Social profiles where you'll be able to show the amount of contributions you have (i.e. how many nominations you have approved, photos or edits added, etc etc), but a leaderboard would incentivise me enough. But if there was any real incentive for me to continue submitting wayspots, it is to reduce coal and bad actors in the system, to make the process as frictionless as possible without having to appeal or resubmit things over and over again.
I have given up on getting the credit for portals discovered that u had agreed between the end of July and the move to lightship. Once the proverbial hit the fan with the move to lightship the ones that went missing then were restored but the first wave as far as I ‘m concerned got forgotten about. It gives me no faith that when goes wrong that the players will be listened to and action taken.
A recent conversation reminded me that some ingress players only submit portals or add better photos because their in-game name appears at the portal or alongside their image in the photo list. It's a kind of way of tagging that you have been past that way.
Without that, they wouldn't bother.
Another funny thing is some people dont like seeing 'unknown' against a portal picture which happens if done from Pogo. So they submit a picture so that it can have a name beside it.
Just goes to show that reasons for submitting varies so much between people and games. There is no one size fits all when it comes to submitters.
A lot of people have stopped submitting POI/images and doing wayfarer voting because of syncing issues and not getting agreement's because of bad voting waves in some areas. Reasons for not submitting are as varied as for submitting but Niantic can at least fix some of these issues and shouldn't have let them go on for so long.
It would be so neat if they did the same accreditation in pokemon go. You'd think it would just take copying a few lines of code so I assume its absence is intentional. Oh well.
You can see your name on a Pokéstop or Gym, assuming you have the setting enabled within Wayfarer. You have to go into the image gallery for a Pokéstop/Gym and then tap on the image you submitted to see your trainer name. Anything that was submitted by an Ingress agent will be nameless though, just like how Pokémon Go usernames don't show in Ingress.
I wonder if the Niantic Profile will mean that these will soon show the name you choose for that one, which will stop the “unknown” showing on games.
Isn't that just for the image though? It's hidden away and susceptible to change.
In ingress the name also is linked to the photo, not the portal itself
Is the 20m rule back for pogo too, or just for ingress?
It technically never existed in Pokémon Go in the first place. The main issue was that before Lightship, Ingress was the database, and Ingress had the 20 metre rule for portals. So in order to get accepted into the database and stand a chance of syncing into Pokémon Go, it needed to pass the Ingress 20 metre rule first, and then pass the level 17 cell rule for Pokémon Go.
Once Lightship was introduced and became the database though, that changed, as Lightship doesn't have any proximity rules, and all games sync from Lightship. Ingress retains its 20 metre rule (aside from when it wasn't working and everyone was happy), and Pokémon Go retains its level 17 cell rule, and both sync independently, so one game's rule no longer has a knock on effect on a different game's wayspots.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.