Clarifying the rejection criteria for "K12 - school grounds"
LerionMW-ING
Posts: 111 ✭✭✭
Please clarify the rejection criteria for "K12 - school grounds".
The main concern is that there should be no doubt when nominating publicly available facilities located near schools. Such objects are often nominated in good faith (as publicly available) but are later removed by NIANTIC for K12 reasons.
A clear definition of what the school grounds are would be very valuable here and would help to avoid any misunderstandings.
Of course, if a waypoint is only available to students and school staff - it is definitely "school grounds" (K12) and such waypoints are beyond any discussion.
Below are the most important examples of the debatable nominations for which I am asking for a decision - whether it is K12 or not.
1. "Good places to exercises" - Facilities that may have separate hours of availability for students, separate for "ordinary people"
• the pitch / complex of pitches / swimming pool - in a fenced area together with a school building
• the pitch / complex of pitches / swimming pool - not fenced, next to a school (fenced or not)
• the pitch / complex of pitches / swimming pool - fenced with a separate fence, next to a school (fenced or not)
2. "Good places to exercise" - Facilities, no designated access hours for students - all the time available to "ordinary people"
• skate park / playground / outdoor gym - in a fenced area together with a school building
• skate park / playground / outdoor gym - not fenced, next to a school (fenced or not)
• skate park / playground / outdoor gym - fenced with a separate fence, next to a school (fenced or not)
3. "Great place to explore" - Facilities, without designated access hours for students - all the time available to "ordinary people"
• public library - in a fenced area together with a school building
• public library - not fenced, in the same building as a school, but with a separate entrance directly from the pavement
• public library - unfenced, in a building with a common wall with the unfenced school building.
• church or chapel - not fenced, in the same building as a school, but with a separate entrance directly from the pavement
• church or chapel - not fenced, in a building with a common wall with an unfenced school building.
• Museum - in a school building, but with a separate entrance
• Open-air museum - in a fenced area together with a school building
• Open-air museum - next to a school, in an unfenced area
• Monument / commemorative plaque / work of art / sculpture / cross - facility accessible from the public pavement while standing in front of an unfenced school building. The school is accessed directly from the public sidewalk.
• Mural / commemorative plaque - on a school fence, placed on the outside of the fence, accessible from the public sidewalk when standing by the fence.
Clarifying which of the above places should be considered "K12 - school grounds" will make it much easier for wayfinders to nominate high quality POIs.
Comments
I'd like to see more clarifications in the general rules overall, like regarding playgrounds (apparently if pieces are separated by a path they are considered separate POI) and PRP (apparently "on the fence" still counts as ON the property) but neither of these are easy to find, these should be clearly stated in the general criteria, not buried in the forums
The POI topic on the school ground or in the vicinity of the school is important. Historical boards could be, and school fields and playgrounds could not. I know portals in my area that are on the pavement next to the school, but not on its premises. We are talking about historical tables. You didn't have to enter the school grounds to capture the portal. And be smart here and write poems. This is unregulated and there should be strict guidelines on what to report and what better to leave alone.
Plaques and monuments in areas "considered" K-12 are still being erased - all someone has to do is report it through the app. Too bad the fake POIs don't disappear as quickly.
One memorial plaque was a portal for over a year. The second was since of times OPR Recon. Although the commemorative plaques were on the school grounds, the portals were placed on the pavement before school .You didn't have to enter the school grounds to capture the portal. And some time ago, the portals were removed. Probably two months ago.
Probably these portals were disturbing to someone overzealous, who had never even been in the area. It is strange that portals that are many years old are removed so suddenly. After all, the company should care about the largest possible POI database.
This is also a problem and should be sorted out. .Check carefully what the player reports. Although it is difficult and practically impossible to do, but possible . Establish tougher penalties for those who repeatedly report fake nominations. But it's solution in the short term.
This sounds like a continuation of the current faction fight going on with various Waypoints in one particular country, with arguments going back and forth that seek either to blur, weaking or remove "K-12" status from assorted Waypoints, or "strengthen" K-12 sites by suggesting that somehow "K-12" sites have a bigger "working" radius than the actual true K-12 site itself.
Niantic are fairly specific with their K-12 criteria, they say:
Ineligible location, place, or object
They have also made various comments that state that K-12 covers not just the grounds, but extends up to and include the fence around the school. We also have multiple comments from Niantic that essentially state "being able to spin a stop from outside the boundary fence of a POI on K-12 grounds is not a reason that makes the POI eligible or acceptable". (Funny, thats got a lot easier now the "temporary" 80m spin radius is in place). There is no need for an AMA answer, and certainly no need to ask for the K-12 category to be split into multiple sub-categories. K-12 is one of those rejection reasons where Niantic need to keep very specific rules, there is no "latitude" or "wobble room" for a K-12 site.
"But but but" I hear some people say. My take on K-12 is very simple. Is the building / swimming pool / library etc only for the exclusive use of school pupils during the school day, ie is it effectively part of the school community? If so, then it is a K-12 site, regardless of what happens out of school hours. My local secondary school down the road from me has a Public Library next door, the access road for both has the same entrance. Is the Public Library a K-12 site? No, because it is a) open to the public during school hours 4 .5 days a week and b) it is outside of the secure area / boundary fence that is the school. You cannot get onto the school grounds without going into the school.
My take on K-12 was very simple too. Now is not. Why? Because last days, Niantic deleted i.e. POIs like that:
* children playground close school, separately fenced, opened for all children all time
* public Library fenced together witch cschool building - but opened all time for all people
* sculptures accessible from the public pavement while standing in front of an unfenced school building. (The school is accessed directly from the public sidewalk ).
In such a situation, do your criteria still apply? And are they right?
In this case I want to have clear criteria - only it, no more! .
I don't want split K-12 to sub-categories, I never said it. I want to know - which from this examples is K-12 and which is not.
And I really think, that it need AMA answer.
As sogNinjaman-ING said, everything on school grounds is ineligible.
・Children playground close school, separately fenced, opened for all children all time
Playgrounds for children only are considered K-12.
・Public Library fenced together with school building - but opened all time for all people
If the fence is meant to mark the school grounds, it is ineligible.
・Sculptures accessible from the public pavement while standing in front of an unfenced school building. (The school is accessed directly from the public sidewalk)
If this sculpture is on school grounds, it is ineligible even if it could be accessed from a sidewalk off school grounds.
hmm... I completely different understand what @sogNinjaman-ING wrote ..... Either I understand English wrong, or you read it wrong. Or we all got something wrong.
For me , in example, an unfenced school which is entered from the street has its "area" only in the building, and what is in front of the entrance is not "on the school grounds". And I understood that @sogNinjaman-ING thinks so too. As I can see, you think the opposite.
And that is why I believe that it is worth explaining in AMA what it means "at school".
This seems like a really unnecessary clarification, mostly because Wayfarer is not black and white like many of your hyper specific requests suggest. Every situation is going to be a little different, and while you certainly got into the nitty gritty with a lot of your requests, the proximity to a school or the presence of a fence will not supersede the reality of whether or not the thing you are submitting is used by or part of a school. While Niantic may be able to give you guidance, they aren't going to be able to spell out exactly how every situation will play out, especially when they tend to heavy-handedly air on the side of caution when it comes to k-12.
Furthermore, the fact that this question shot up to 30 votes and then stopped is a bit alarming? I could be wrong, but I don't feel like there is this much confusion about k-12 within the community, and it seems like the votes on this may have been targeted by a multi-accounter or something similar. It definitely doesn't seem to be slowly incrementing support like other questions did. I hope Niantic will investigate that if they do decide to answer this question.
・Children playground close school, separately fenced, opened for all children all time
Playgrounds for children only are considered K-12.
That's new to me, I thought that playground outside of schools were OK. Just for the simple fact that all of the playgrounds that I've ever seen are always for kids <18 and according to this comment all of them would be invalid.
So I agree that people still don't know what are the rules that must be applied related to K-12 and not related to multi-accounter but due to people that are worried that the K-12 rule is being abused to remove valid wayspots.
If it were as you say and each case were considered separately, that would be ok. But recently Niantic has removed a lot of portals near schools based on a few mass requests for removal, without giving any evidence that it is indeed a K12. I am not a child and I do not intend to play with someone who in one post requests the removal of several hundred portals from all over the country, without any evidence, and Niantic simply removes them. Filing a complaint regarding the removal of each portal requires effort and gathering evidence that the portal is valid. I know something about it - my complaints have been open for almost a month and probably will not be considered - because they were prophylactically censored and closed for commenting. I am not going to waste time reporting or advertising something that is against the rules. Therefore, I expect NIANTIC to be treated seriously and to explain as precisely as possible why the portal is qualified as located on the school ground. Because if Niantic does not require any evidence but only a link to the portal and information from some agent "that is K12" - then the criteria must be very clear and very simple. I want us all to get to know them.
I informed my community that I wrote this question to the AMA and asked for votes if someone else would like to know how Niantic defines "school grounds". And they voted, I think. I feel disgusted with your suggestions about "voting acxounts". But of course Niantic has access to such data, so they knows it.
There was a problem with my wording, the general playground where children play with their parents is ok.
Secondary school (15+), no fence, by the main town promenade, with benches for anyone who wants to relax. In this place several meters high monument of the school patron. It was removed from game. K-12 is not black and white. And removal is so simple.
I think the thing to consider is whether it's a place designed for parents leave their children in the care of others.
At a public park or apartment complex, strangers walking by are commonplace.
At a public school, or place of worship, strangers hanging around are suspicious.
For example, Sunday School teachers take children to the church playground. Also, that church could have preschool or kindergarten during the week. These teachers are likely trained on what to do if a stranger is hanging around - like call the police. Could be a non-custodial parent, or who knows what scary.