Should I just give up on trail markers?

2

Comments

  • FeThorn-INGFeThorn-ING Posts: 71 ✭✭✭

    Much as I'd love to just leave those without upgrades, I still have nominations from late 2020 in voting. It seems impossible to get a decision on anything around here without upgrades these days. Really wish Niantic would further clarify the rules here.

  • ChicagoRay312-PGOChicagoRay312-PGO Posts: 68 ✭✭✭

    Believe it or not, I got one approved recently that was upgraded automatically because I hadn’t chosen an upgrade next. Shoutout to my DFW peeps for chiming in. I felt I was living in the Twilight zone there for a while arguing with these people. These promote exercise a heck of a lot more than most stops.

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And did you explain that they aren't actual trail markers, they are markers for use only by the emergency services, and that there are separate installed trail markers.

    Or perhaps did you show them the official website where it clearly states that the markers are solely for the use in case of emergency to notify the emergency services.

    I'm going to guess not

  • Himillsy-PGOHimillsy-PGO Posts: 172 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2022

    hi, welcome to the thread.

    thank you for your very insightful assumptions and valuable input. it was not an extremely long or in-depth conversation, but it wasn't brief, either. he is aware that local emergency services do use them in case there is an emergency at that location. he also understands that they can be used as locators for players organizing raids or meetups at certain wayspots and such.

    what is this official website you speak of? i would love to see it, because i have not been able to find an "official" website for all of these trail markers around the dallas-ft. worth metroplex. the original markers were installed for the katy trail, but since then, several other cities have copied these markers for their trails.

    despite the divide on the validity and sole purpose of these markers, i doubt we'll get a clear answer or ruling on whether these particular trail markers are eligible or not. niantic's policy seems to rely largely on local interpretation. they may remain a grey area for some, and a definite yes/no for others.

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Didnt even look at the offical Katy trail website then ?

    May want to have read that first.

    They are not designed for any other reason than to allow fast response by Emergency services.

    They dont represent trial markers, they are locator points for Emergency services.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    You gotta admit too @Theisman-ING some of those trails lines look like they would be great spines for layer fields.

    Play ingress on trails not in your car!!!!!

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Considering the appeals process has apparently recently accepted LFLs on PRP, im not sure you can claim any such thing.

    The fact is they are emergency locator points, they have nothing to do with a trial. They are in essence the same those emergancy telephones that you have on the road incase you break down, they are there so you can inform the Emergency services where you are.

    They are not there to help you explore, the actual trail markers and mile markers are for that

    They are not there to help you exercise, again the actual trail markers are for that.

    They are not a great place to be social with others.

    There is nothing about them which meets criteria.

    They are there for Emergancy services only

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ahh so were back on the , we don't care about quality, more more more argument, who cares that it doesn't meet criteria, argument again are we ?

    Just because something is useful doesn't make it a viable or intersting candidate.

    A cell tower is useful, my local fuel station is useful, doesn't make them worthwhile candidates.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    Lol it's not about the quality of the poi.


    There are two motivations for humans walking... generally speaking - the errand goal focused (point of interest) and the journey - just enjoying being on a walk in nature or an urban park ( line of interest )

    In a game where lines of interest are not represented by the game mechanisms then accepting location markers - whether unique emergency points or navigational markers helps bring the 'line of interest' into the game in some what a fashion.

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You've just said that you dont care about the quality of POIs and that you're happy with Emergency points in games.

    What else is there to say if you're going to so blatantly admit to ignoring the ideals and critera of Wayfarer.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    There are plenty of examples in ingress ....


    Spring Mountain Beacon ... Is a cell tower

    Mt Flinders Helipad .... Is a helipad.


    Why are they in ingress because they are on mountains. Nothing to do with eligibility.

    Most players don't have the time free to climb mountains regularly.

    Vote 1 for more poi on the trails we get to more often. Let's treat people who get outside on a trail with more poi.

  • Himillsy-PGOHimillsy-PGO Posts: 172 ✭✭✭✭

    ah, i thought that might be the website you're referring to. that is not considered the "official" website. that is just the website for the katy trail, one of the many trails that happens to have these markers. it is the first trail in dfw to have the markers installed, but several other trails in dallas followed suit, then many other cities around dallas copied their idea and started putting up signs on long, winding trails.

    true, some appeals have not been good. i wasn't trying to say "niantic accepted an appeal for one so that means they are eligible" as so many brag about on this forum. i was sharing a piece of information that could be viewed as supportive, but might not have definite validity.

    i think i've covered all points and everything that i want or need to say about this topic in this thread, so there is no sense in me continuing this conversation with you. you seem to have injected yourself into this thread solely to argue, and i'm not going to waste any more time doing that with you.

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How about the offical Dallas parks and recs website then ?

    Where they are clearly classified as an Emergency system.

    Two separate offical websites, one for Dallas parks and rec as a whole, the other for this trail specifically, and in both cases they are clearly stated to be emergency locator markers for emergency services.

    Yet somehow you still managed not to find this information ? O...kay

  • VladDraco-PGOVladDraco-PGO Posts: 560 ✭✭✭✭

    "Mile Markers

    The mile markers on the Katy Trail are embedded into the concrete trail every quarter of a mile and show the distance from the end of the Trail in the direction you are traveling. Whether you start at Airline Road in the north, or the American Airlines Center in the south, the mile marker says zero. The next marker you see says 1/4, and so on every quarter of a mile until you get to the other end of the Trail. When you turn around, you’re at zero again.

    The signs on poles along the Trail are 911 markers for DPD and DFD. They are labeled KT-100 through KT-125 and are tied to the City’s GPS because the 3.5-mile Katy Trail is too long to have one official address. They are approximately 1/8 of a mile apart, but they are not mileage markers. In case of an emergency, please make note of your nearest 911 mile marker to alert first responders."


    There's markers every 1/4 mile and 911 markers. They are different things. I'm not sure everyone has understood this. (I had not^^)

  • FeThorn-INGFeThorn-ING Posts: 71 ✭✭✭

    Just because they are Emergency waypoints, does not make them any less of a trail marker. Objects can have multiple uses you know, and in this case, these trail markers have dual functionality. Yes, they help first responders find people in case of emergencies. But they ALSO serve as useful landmarks and navigational tools for folks using the trails.

    Heck, I could argue that the markers themselves are more for public use than for EMS. First responders already have info on where the markers are, and could probably reach the location of any given one even if the marker were to be removed. They're more for helping people pass along the info EMS needs, than for them to actually follow to the place(s) they're needed.

    These markers, therefore, contain info about the trail that can be useful to the average user, which means they have everything to do with the trails. And surely I don't need to explain how trails are very much eligible, as they encourage both exploration and exercise. One could even argue that they encourage social gathering to some degree.

    The only reason these markers could be considered ineligible, is if thier inclusion would interfere with Emergency services. And as someone that has visited trails with these markers probably dozens of times, I can confidently say they do not. Not once have I seen any EMS actually have to go out to one. And even in such a situation, there'd very likely still be ample room to pass by. Plus, the place they need to get to might merely be close by to a trail marker, and not directly at one.

    It seems to me that you're just caught up on the fact that these markers are meant to be used in emergencies, and not recognizing that they have other uses too. And just for your information, these markers make up the overwhelming majority of trail signage in the Dallas / Ft. Worth area. Mile markers on trails here are very few and far between. Most do not have them at all. Same for map based signs showing said trails, very few of them. If I had to guess, I'd say these signs make up at least 85% of all trail signs in the area.

    We can't nominate alternatives for more trail waypoints because for the most part, they don't exist. These markers are what we have to work with. They may be a bit unconventional, but they do have thier uses outside of just EMS waypoints.

    So please, just stop.

  • X0bai-PGOX0bai-PGO Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ^ Your first sentence entirely backwards.

    The fact that they are emergency waypoints specifically makes them not trail markers.

  • VladDraco-PGOVladDraco-PGO Posts: 560 ✭✭✭✭

    Say that to them. It's not us who put trail markers each 1/4 mile AND specific 911 on same trails.

    And as you can see above there notice say "they are not mileage markers".

  • JillJilyJabadoo-PGOJillJilyJabadoo-PGO Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2022

    I was referring to the idea they could be both emergency markers and trail markers, this is not related to whether they are mile markers or not. I didn't see anyone proposing they are mile markers (i.e. signs that show the distance along the trail ftom the trail starting point).

  • FeThorn-INGFeThorn-ING Posts: 71 ✭✭✭

    Sorry, but you're wrong. Something being an emergency waypoint DOES NOT mean it can't also be something else.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    They are unique identifying signs in a specific location ... How are they not a location marker?

    They are significant to the safe use of trails just as directional markers on the trail provide safe use of the trail.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    Hope the team give a ruling on this one.

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticGiffard , can you chime in on this or seek clarification for them please.

    Mine and others position, including the offical Dallas Parks and Recreation department, don't consider them trail markers / mile markers, which are installed separately on the trails.

    Instead They are considered to be emergency locator markers for use by Emergency services as evidenced in the web links above.

    Others believe that they are valid trail markers.

    Whats Niantics view on this ?

  • FeThorn-INGFeThorn-ING Posts: 71 ✭✭✭

    How many times do people have to say it, they don't have other trail markers besides these. Maybe a small handful of mile markers once in a blue moon, but not much else.

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2022

    And how many times does it need to be pointed out that it doesn't make a difference if there isnt many offical trail markers.

    If a sign is classified by the local council as being made for emergency services, is for use as a locator for emergency services, then it isn't a trail marker.

    Its an emergency services locator point nothing more and as such doesn't meet any criteria at all.

    Just because its the only thing around doesn't instantly make it a valid candidate

  • FeThorn-INGFeThorn-ING Posts: 71 ✭✭✭

    I've said it at least 5 times now, something being used for EMS doesn't make it not a trail marker. They're multi purpose.

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