Niantic, please stop allowing lv1 accounts from participating on the forum
TrevorAlan-PGO
Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭✭
There is a continuing problem of spam, harassment, abuse, etc that occurs on these forums. Although Niantic does tend to ban these individuals from the forum eventually, the problem continues (especially on weekends when staff is light) when these individuals just make additional throwaway Pokémon Go and Ingress accounts (against Niantic's ToS), so they can then hop right back in the forums and continue with their abuse.
There may be valid reasons for allowing fresh new accounts into the forums... But I have to believe the negatives far outweigh any reason for continue to allow them to interact on this site.
Please stop allowing under-leveled, non-Wayferer eligible accounts from posting on these forums.
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I have previously suggested adding restrictions to access levels on that topic and have received word from Giffard that they believe it is necessary and will consider it. (The discussion itself was unfortunately closed due to an unrelated topic on several Wayfinders.)
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/130705/#Comment_130705
I also believe that spam can be curbed considerably by limiting access levels and utilizing Niantic IDs.
And since the previous announcement from the Wayfarer team was also about Niantic ID, I am currently watching the developments.
Limiting accounts by level seems like a good idea but I’m not sure it should be locked at level 38+/level 10+ as it’s good for Trainers and Agents to be aware of what Wayfarer is, and how the community is before they are eligible to submit nominations.
Unfortunately, nowhere does it say what level in games the account has. Newly created - only the ability to read. After a few days - possibility to comment. After 100 likes (from different users) - the possibility of creating new threads. None of this will happen. It will be like so far.
By the time they have gotten to 100 likes, they are probably confident enough to no longer feel the need to make Nomination Improvement threads, so that would be a bad idea. There shouldn't be a distinction between being able to post, and being able to create a thread. Limiting the ability to comment, post, like and disagree can be limited to wayfarers that have passed the Wayfarer test. You don't have to log in to be able to read, and that is okay.
Yeah, maybe a level or two ahead of the requirement. Either way definitely shouldn't be brand new lv1...
Niantic can figure out what they want to do for a cutoff... but a cutoff needs to exist ASAP.
level 30 in Pokémon go and lv6 in Ingress might be a good line. They each take a fair bit of effort but are well below the submitting stage so they can learn before they get access to wayfarer.
Level 30 can be very quick to reach - bacause I had complained recently the person made an account mocking me. And it took a couple of days to get to level 30. So if you are determined to create an account to **** with it is quick and easy
Pokemon Go Level 35 and Ingress Level 8 would make much more sense to me as far as forum access - they're both fairly close to submission level, as well as closer to the in-game levels where Medals matter, but those levels do take a bit of work to achieve.
It would probably then help to have something in the games to say:
”Soon, you’ll be able to participate in Wayfarer. Visit the forums here to see the discussions and learn how you’ll be able to get involved at level <number here>!”
L8 in Ingress can be achieved in less than an hour with the right preparation, and if someone is leveling an alt account for nuisance reasons then they could do that pretty easily.
With proper preparation, you can certainly reach level 8 in about an hour.
But imagine a wayfinder who wants to spam attack the Wayfarer forum right now, preparing items in advance, buying APEX and playing Ingress for an hour in disgust.
That is just too ridiculous.
The wayfinder who spammed even that should go somewhere else to get medical attention before accessing the forum.
It would work well as a deterrent.
How long would the preparation take?
Some people will always have the knowledge and time to rush leveling up while the vast, vast majority of players either take forever to reach those levels or more likely don't reach them at all. The people pulling off that incredibly quick progress are a vanishingly small minority and can probably be ignored when trying to find a good level threshold.
How would people report they're unable to do the test because of the bugs, in this forum?
Also, how would people ask why their Wayfarer account got suspended, in this forum?
I would say the limitation to access this forum is somewhere around level 35-37 in Pokemon GO
andmaybe Bronze (or Silver) Jogger and Backpacker medal. Not sure for Ingress.In an ideal world, that could be resolved by contacting support. But I get your point.
@JillJilyJabadoo-PGO Preparation for power leveling would probably take another hour or two depending on where you were and what strategy you used. Using Apex boosts for double AP would make it a lot easier.
My meta point is that getting a L8+ Ingress account is reasonably easy if you know what you're doing. There's also a black market in accounts, which is clearly against the rules but harassers generally don't care about ethics. Level restrictions will weed out the casual jerks but it won't stop someone who is determined.
But at least that would require some effort from them.
At the moment they only need a new account and they can troll freely during the weekends.
The vast majority of normal people do not attack or spam forums.
It is very strange when players who started yesterday and today are in and out of Wayfarer.
Therefore, most of the lvl 1 accounts that come to the forum are multi-accounts.
Some of these players try to use disposable accounts to avoid damaging their own accounts that they want to protect.
I don't know about that. I mean sometimes you get a hidden gem (or two) with new accounts so you don't want to systemically ban new users because you don't know what they can bring.
Reminds me a bit of that Tom Cruise movie Minority Report - are we pre-judging users before they have done anything? It is a tricky and worryingly precedent to set. Isn't the punishment usually after the crime?
Also, just to add to this. The opposite is also true - having 'established' users can be misleading to newer members.
I can have a healthy discussion with one user on one discussion but completely disagree with the same user on something else. Just because they have a higher level than me, or more made posts, doesn't mean anything as I judge by the individual merits of each discussion. I don't have to agree with everything they say due to their seniority / level.
But. But you do have problematic users in those ranks.
I had a veteran user hijack one of my posts the other day, trying to make it look like they knew what they were talking about but it was abundantly clear they only recently googled the topic I raised (plus the topic was never raised before my post which does say a lot by itself). Especially when they hit [non-issue] obstacles others in the industry experienced and overcame decades ago, they were so not subject matter experts but trying hard to be.
I also had another discussion with another veteran user I was using banter and a little bit of sarcasm - cultural differences aside - they took offence and started to dox me because they weren't winning the argument. It's fine to agree to disagree but attacking, trying to intimidate or doing what this person was doing was highly questionable.
I moved on from both of them.
So you have bad bunches in more established users as well. I won't mention the obvious cliques but they are there. Then you have the genuine members of the community who aren't in it for themselves (i.e. echoing other users talking point without actually contributing anything of substance) - they want to help other users and protect the integrity of the database / games as well as this forum.
Out of interest, do you have a link or screenshot to some of the examples you highlighted in your OP?
Just making sure we are talking about the same thing as I haven't really seen any on the discussions I look at so either I'm on the wrong threads or the negative comments from these users / accounts have already been removed / deleted.
Thanks.
This topic is specifically about people creating lvl 1 Ingess or PoGo alt accounts in order to get around forum bans. I don't think OP is in any way saying new forum users should have restrictions. Under the proposal, a level 38 in PoGo making their first post here would still be treated the same as some who made 1000 posts.
No I don't have any examples on hand, as most threads created by spamming new accounts have been deleted by the mods.
I (and others) have had folks relentlessly come on the forums with new lv1 accounts to disagree bomb people. Create fake reports and spammy threads to grief and disrupt waypoints in certain areas. Just straight up troll.
They usually start after their primary account has been banned for bad acts, then they just come in for days, weeks, months, with fresh lv1 throw away accounts to continue. There's no good reason a lv1 should be allowed on the forum in the first place. (Since obviously there's no way to track people creating multi accounts, not via email, IP address, device, nothing)
We usually see them slither out of the holes they dwell in during the weekend, when most if not all moderators are off-duty.
And I think you are confused as to what I am stating. I'm not talking about new people on the forums here, I'm talking about abusers and spammers creating NEW ingress and pokemon go accounts (lv1) (multi-accounting) just to sign into the forum here and disagree bomb, **** others, spam, like their own comments on their other primary accounts, etc.
I don't think anything of value is contributed by any brand new, (not multi accounting) lv1 ingress or PoGo account coming on here, they don't even know how their game of choice works yet let alone wayfarer that 9-37 levels away from being on their radar...
If Niantic had ignored what was in these spammy threads, there wouldn't be a problem. But they took advantage of these messages, often removing POIs that shouldn't have been removed. And they thanked them for "helping to ensure the quality of Wafarer." Seemingly an ordinary formula, but I felt like I was being spit on.
Another weekend is rapidly approaching, any comments @NianticGiffard @NianticTintino. IDK what other solutions would be appropriate or feasible, but having a level requirement for forum access seems to be the most easy/effective to implement?
lvl 1 account shouldnt be able to even participate in anything other than play the game for lvl up and learn stuff, this goes to all games, lvl 1 accounts should not be able to send edits, reports, etc of any kind
L1 accounts also shouldn't be able to like photos.
I don’t believe they can on Pokémon GO, you have to reach level 38 to gain a 👍 option. I believe Ingress is level 8, but may be wrong.
As a level 1 Agent, I can also verify that I'm able to like photos.