Wayfarer Criteria Clarification - Discussion



  • Cowyn2016-PGOCowyn2016-PGO Posts: 294 ✭✭✭✭

    I disagree because of human nature. I think waypoints edits fall into 2 categories: Selfless to make wayfarer better + personal gain to manipulate game boards.

    Picture/Title/Description Edits tend to fall into the Selfless category. People only spend the time and effort to make those because they want to make the wayspots database better. And during review we generally aren't bombarded with these. They are a small minority of reviews and super fast to do. Out of 100 reviews, how many times do you run into these? Less than 10?

    Location Edits & Removal Requests manipulate the game board. Some times done for malicious selfish reasons. (not always but sometimes)

    I think requests for "Grandfather" Tags would be more like Picture/Title/Description ie Selfless category. I don't think the average submitter or player would even bother making the request just as they dont bother submitting text edits.

    And yes, something could go to "Not allowed" then later to "Allowed" but the same types of people who care enough to update would update.

    Since the tag in my scenerio would have zero effect on game boards, there just wouldn't e any incentive for average player to bother. Only wayfarer reviewers.

    And heck if you wanted, you could bother to code extra safeguards in. Like for example only people whose Wayfarer Accounts are "Great" have Grandfather Tag under their options to edit waypoint. As a side tangent may not be a bad code addition for location edit requests too.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cowyn2016-PGO "There wouldn't be any incentive for the average player to bother" is exactly right. Very few people would do this so most of the not-currently-ineligible stuff wouldn't get labeled, and that defeats the purpose. If only 1% of the grandfathered stuff is labeled as such then what good is it? People are still going to see hole #13 of a disc golf course and assume that all the holes are eligible.

  • AgentX1976-INGAgentX1976-ING Posts: 371 ✭✭✭✭

    This goes back to somone for else in this thread saying that Niantic needs to let us know what the motive behind some rules are.

    Why is each hole on a golf course (disc or regular) not a good PoI? Because you might interfere with play and or may get injured.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not really, you could just make a bit of program that makes it so waypoints older than say, 4 years, has a tag on it that when pressed, can say "this was accepted a while back, but might not meet acceptance criteria now" and solve the issue

  • Cowyn2016-PGOCowyn2016-PGO Posts: 294 ✭✭✭✭

    You just posted my own personal pet peeve :< Perfect is the enemy of good. Better is still better even 1%

    If 1% of spots that don't make a good example for new players of what to nominate had a tag that said that... that is still less new players learning bad nominating habits and tossing less coal into system and/or not getting upset and stopping nominating because they think their valid nominations get rejected.


  • Duiomar-PGODuiomar-PGO Posts: 256 ✭✭✭✭

    But how much effort is being made for this marginal improvement? This seems like a lot of work for not much payoff, and that's assuming it's used exclusively in good faith.

  • Cowyn2016-PGOCowyn2016-PGO Posts: 294 ✭✭✭✭

    I MIGHT be wrong...

    I just don't think that much effort will be made or its that much work. Picture Edits and Description Edits are marginal improvements and yet we do them. When reviewing 100 nominations what percentage of time are "Mark Appropriate Picture" or "Choose best title" what comes up? I think it's pretty small. And those edit reviews are much much faster to click on then a nomination. A mark the appropriate picture usually takes less then 10 seconds before Im hitting submit.

    I'm thinking of a simple Yes or No that pops up... Would you vote for this nomination currently if it popped up under current criteria. Yes or No. 1 Click and your done. Whatever high % of "Nos" Niantic picks... then applies the flag

    Ironically, you could reverse the question and flag... Do you think this wayspot is Top-Notch example for new reviewers on what a way spot should be. Yes or No. Then if high enough yes %, the wayspot gets a little ribbon on it... exemplary wayspot. (% Yes)

  • EvieEvolved-PGOEvieEvolved-PGO Posts: 39 ✭✭

    I’ve had to reject a lot of good submissions lately that explicitly mentioned Pokémon go in the description. Adding “Do not reference Pokémon Go” to the submission title/description prompts would be an easy fix.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26

    Writing about this, it goes without saying that the Wayfarer team and ambassadors will now need to hold regular meetings.

    And they will eventually clarify the criteria.

    At this time, they need to first determine what is prioritized as the POI as a clarification of the criteria.

    Is it the priority of the location where the POI is located or the POI itself?

    And whether the POIs should be viewed as a group or as individuals.

    Good POIs can be found in off-limits, in areas where safe access does not exist, in sensitive areas, and in inappropriate areas.

    A lighthouse on an isolated island on a bluff, an artist's object on private property, a celebrity's grave in a cemetery, a mural on the wall of a fire station, etc., to name a few.

    Currently, some of the criteria for location are flawed and many remain ambiguous. This is the cause of confusion and controversy among Wayfinders.

    This should be clarified.

    The other issue is what to do with POIs that are identical in character and less valuable on their own.

    For example, multiple gazebos placed 50 meters apart around a park plaza, which continue to be nominated and categorized individually alphabetically and numerically.

    Hundreds of information boards scattered roughly every 100 meters, by street number, in the same neighborhood of the same town, continue to be nominated only for their street numbers.

    Mosaic tiles with the same pattern appear again and again every 100 meters along the sidewalk. They are nominated with different titles on their own.

    Distance markers that appear every 100m along the walking trail have no value or meaning on their own. However, they are all nominated individually, such as 200m from the start of the walking course".

    At the start of OPR, or rather from 2012 when Ingress began, to the present, it remains ambiguous whether priority is given to this group or to the individual.

    And with the current review system, the more extensive these are, the more they become a weak point.

    And these have become a source of confusion and controversy when we review.

    So, as I mentioned at the beginning, the Wayfarer team and ambassadors need to meet and clarify what the priorities are in terms of POI criteria.

    And we would like them to show us what those criteria are.

    Also, and I trust we all understand this, but a necessary perspective in clarification is the social acceptance of the general public who do not play games.

    This is not the perspective of gamers or geeks who only see what's on their smartphone screens.

    Because Ingress, Pokémon GO, Pikmin, and the upcoming launches of Transformers and Peridot will all be played in the real world.

    We are required to have social common sense at the outset of playing a game.

    Our games can only be played with social tolerance.

    This should not be forgotten, not even for a moment.

    The same is true for POI.

    Post edited by tp235-ING on
  • FurtadoV-PGOFurtadoV-PGO Posts: 35 ✭✭

    Thanks ! We are gratefull that Niantic is trying to get in touch with us !

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok, I havent read that much, but what were the ideas in general? I know what mines was but I can't remember much else lol

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