Help "takes action" but leaves all disc golf tees in game.
On Saturday April 2, I alerted the help chat that individual disc golf tees were being accepted at Keeley Park (NC). The first to go live in Ingress was this one: https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=36.10979,-79.704701 I kept adding to the report as new ones kept showing up on the duplicates row or on the Ingress map.
On April 15 I received this reply.
"Hello Explorer,
Thanks for reaching out.
We have reviewed the report and have taken action on the Wayspots and the Wayfinder in accordance with our policies. While we are unable to discuss our actions in detail to protect the submitter’s privacy, they may include, but are not limited to, sending a warning message, placing restrictions on their Wayfarer, Pokémon GO or Ingress account, putting their account on probation, or placing a temporary or permanent suspension on their Wayfarer, Pokémon GO or Ingress account.
Thanks for helping us maintain the quality of the Wayspots.
Best Regards,"
I did not want action taken on the Wayfarer. There used to be a clarification that individual disc golf tees are not eligible, but that was removed from help. I thought these Wayspots should be removed and/or prevented from going live. Individual disc golf tees are not places to have people wandering around playing phone games. It interferes with the golfers and is dangerous for those not paying attention to the discs. But as of tonight's sync three syncs later, I see holes 3, 5, 6, 8, 15, & 18 live. So I guess disc golf holes do not meet removal criteria for Niantic.
This could use another clarification.
Comments
I have a local disc golf course nearby where, over the last 6 months, something like 14 or 15 of the 18 individual holes have gone live as Wayspots. I was surprised since I had certainly voted differently on the few I reviewed. But the main Wayfarer criteria posted on the site do not really discuss points of interest like storybook trails, golf courses and disc golf courses, obstacle courses, trails with fitness stations, or even sports areas with multiple courts or fields located closely together. Who knows? Maybe I am the one who was wrong.
Every time I try to tell other people around here that some things aren't eligible, they reply with "but they get accepted so I'll keep nominating them". It's frustrating. I'm tempted to nominate the fifty-yard, forty-yard, and 30-yard line of every football field around here: they're well-marked, encourage exercise, and have level pedestrian access. Since interfering with a single field of play isn't much of an issue, apparently, I don't see why they would fail.
Disc Golf courses are often set in woods or other rugged locations - but that doesn't mean that clustering around a tee or a hole is any less intrusive than standing on a football yard marker during a game. In-game markers should not be eligible, and I do wish that fact was clarified on the Help pages and reviewers were instructed to reject such points outright.
Not arguing just curious. So you are saying poi like bocce ball courts, horseshoe pits, baseball fields, tennis courts or even basketball courts should be rejected since players would interfere with their play? And yes I do not accept more than one poi in disc golf courses. I mark them aa duplicate. Is that right or should I be marking them differently?
Nope - like Disc Golf Courses, a single waypoint at the logical point of access is fine - like standard Golf Courses, where an entrance sign or clubhouse can be acceptable. I think that marking additional POIs (like baseball bases, or the football yard lines in my example) as duplicates of the overall anchor makes perfect sense to me.
For me individual disc golf and ball golf holes are a matter of safe pedestrian access, not an issue of whether they should be considered part of a single field. Players cutting across the course in between holes while staring at their phones are at risk for getting hit by discs or balls. I used to play in disc golf tournaments and it's very common to throw blind in a wooded course. Those disc are also significantly heavier and traveling at much higher speeds than the backyard frisbees more people are familiar with.
Tldr, I'd reject with "pedestrian access" rather than mark as duplicate.
I'd reject individual holes for both types of Golf Course as "does not meet criteria" as Niantic have said "they ar not eligible individually".
Just out of curiosity, is this the only reason you reject them?
Not disagreeing with you for rejecting them, but highlighting the disparity what Explorers are aware of. I would hardly expect any new submitter or reviewer to even think of referencing an Ingress AMA, and even if they did the first thing they should be told is
Unlike previous clarifications and small-scale changes, this is a complete overhaul of the criteria and overrides any previous AMA response or clarification here in the forum. The new criteria should be considered the new source of truth.
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/9512/wayfarer-3-1-release-notes-new-criteria-darkmode
I don't understand a word of the updated criteria. It was a Criteria Obfuscation, in my opinion: total vague garbage, where anything can be twisted to meet "requirements" given an average vocabulary. A Disc Golf course is a great place to exercise and be social, but not if you're standing at a single tee box or hole. Then it's just an average place to chat for a bit, with the added adrenaline rush from the possibility of taking a projectile to the face.
The best way to make people aware of and comfortable with the Eligibility and Acceptance Criteria is to use words that mean things.
And then I hit the Enter key and make a new blank comment in my enthusiasm for the topic!
Today I received a nomination for Hole 1 there, and started a new ticket. So the nominations definitely have not been pulled, either.
Fast reply this time - will see if they did anything after sync
"07:27 AM
Hello Explorer,
Thanks for reaching out.
We have reviewed the report and have taken action on the Wayspot in accordance with our policies.
Thanks for helping us maintain the quality of the Wayspots.
Best Regards,"
If I've read the op correctly, it's not the holes but the tee off areas that were accepted. I wouldnt have accepted every tee, but I go with
1. Sign for the course, making it the anchor
2. First tee if there is no sign, making it the anchor for the course
3. If there's something interesting about a hole/tee, I might submit that, but thats very very unlikely
@Gazzas89-PGO that's exactly the situation - and that's how I review disc golf courses, too.
@NianticGiffard do we understand the criteria correctly? These individual tees should not be Wayspots without some extraordinary significance for the individual hole? If we have it right, these need to be removed as reviewers are seeing the accepted ones and submitting more.
Thanks for reporting this. I would suggest raising a ticket through our Wayfarer website to look into it.
they already used the help chat though and nothing was done. that's why they made a post here.
@NianticGiffard I have already submitted two tickets - # 16565584 first then # 16649863. I have basically stopped reviewing over this. If y'all don't care about injuries and inappropriate Wayspots, then why should I? I am at 31880 reviews, but have practically stopped over this.
[Edit: I did open my review and the first two items were disc golf tees at two other courses. I am sure people see the ones I reported being accepted and submit their own. If you don't think individual disc golf tees should be accepted, y'all need to remove the ones in game and make a statement. The longer these are left live, the more will get in game.]
Currently, rejected as per Niantic criteria and guidance. Beyond that, I've not really given much thought to either. I don't actually know of any disc golf course anywhere nearby. Plenty of golf courses, some of which have public rights of way going across them, but I could not see too many club members being too impressed by a procession of people walking across the tees or fairways to spin a stop or even gather for a Gym raid. Add to this I sometimes work on golf courses, and have been advised by more than one course manager to wear my hard hat when doing so beccause some of their golfers don't always keep the ball on the fairway. I think the current "nominate the clubhouse" rule works best for golf clubs.
Great =( Now here is another Disc Golf course getting individual tees accepted. This is snowballing, as I predicted.
More from the original course I reported.
Yep, that went live, too. @NianticGiffard y'all need to make a decision on these. I am tired of getting disagreements.
Did we ever get any official clarification besides "talk to support"?
Add Orienteering Courses. Really only the start should be considered. Making all parts into stops would kind of ruin the point of Orienteering.
@grendelwulf-ING I made that argument about orienteering courses about a year ago. It didn't go particularly well... people seem to think that orienteering markers are the same as trail markers, which they very much are not.
No @NianticGiffard did not reply again after that response to my reply that I already submitted two tickets - # 16565584 first then # 16649863 and that "action had been taken" but it has not. Every time I do decide to review I get another one of these, which I am now marking as 1* for abuse, since I have been told action was taken but am still receiving these. And more continue to go live.
Hi @cyndiepooh-ING! If any generic golf holes were nominated they would not meet our criteria for eligibility. Having said that, we have already reviewed the tickets raised and have addressed them accordingly. Sadly, we won't be able to discuss our internal policies.
Then your internal policy must be to say you have taken action and leave them all in game. I try to do a good job as a reviewer but it is hard to get around this double-talk. Thanks for the non-answer. And they are up to seven live portals on the course there.
‘There are ineligible and also we will be keeping ineligible POIs and won’t say why. Good work, you did the right thing.’
I was really hoping for a clear course of action on these, as my local Disc Golf Course not only has many tees in game but has also served as a model for other courses where people are now nominating. Unfortunately, @NianticGiffard 's reply has simply underscored the fact that Niantic is unconcerned with wayspot quality and stopping trends that degrade the overall map. There really needs to be a removal criteria for "this has never been eligible since the dawn of time" and some type of action taken against reviewers (nothing harsh, just a stern email or something) that approve everything just to get a quantity of in-game objects.
I think from all the recent clarifications from Niantic about markers and the infamous “dog **** bins may be eligible” https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/115768#Comment_115768
from @NianticDanbocat it’s clear that the idea of quality Wayspots went out of the window long ago for Niantic in exchange for quantity so they can tell investors that they have χ amount of Wayspots available in their database that you can buy access to.
Or before that, the Foursquare imports that added gas stations and hotels offshore in ocean waters, and houses of ill repute inland. It does boggle the mind.