Impact of Game Board Rules on what people choose to nominate as waypoints



  • Ferrothorn88-INGFerrothorn88-ING Posts: 61 ✭✭✭

    You wouldn't want to shake up gym locations. There's already a lot of complaints (including from yours truly) about PoGo only showing up to 1,000 gym badges at a time. With remote raids in the game now, hitting that limit is trivially easy. Causing gyms to regularly get demoted and promoted would be detrimental to gold badge hunters (like myself.)

    Niantic absolutely must avoid this, at the very least until they make it possible for PoGo players to access thier entire list of gym badges all at once, including legacy gyms. Even then there would still more than likely be intense backlash.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 780 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't like to talk about specific games here, but I will talk a little.

    Currently, most of the problems between players in Pokémon GO involve Pokémon Gyms.

    There are several reasons for this obsession.

    The system gives you 50 Pokécoins per day.

    The system of Gym Battles where you have to battle a maximum of 18 times to take a gym.

    The system of individual Gold Gyms.

    First of all, it will be necessary to fundamentally change this.

    The game itself would be healthier and more in line with Niantic's philosophy if the acquisition of Pokécoins were allocated to walking and accomplishing tasks, as in Pikmin.

    Also, the current gym battle system creates unnecessary stagnation for players, resulting in a high likelihood of encounters with hostile opponents.

    Like Ingress, the system should be changed to one that usually takes less than a minute to complete.

    Otherwise, the Gold Gym system is not very good either.

    The current system has created more of an attachment to the location than Ingress' Guardian Medal system that once existed.

    This should probably be changed to a system where the achievement of holding a gym is irrelevant except for overall time, and also a system where gyms move periodically.

    I don't like to speak on the premise of informality, but I think that changing the cell level and counting method of gym generation conditions would also reduce the malicious Wayfinder abuse involved in Pokémon gyms.

    For example, don't change one Pokéstop generation condition to S2 cell level 17, but make Pokémon gyms at S2 cell level 13 with all wayspot counts totaling 12 (keeping the status quo) or 16 total (4 more than the status quo). (individual wayspots that do not normally appear may appear).

    Pokemon gym locations will be moved periodically.

    To make it difficult for Wayfinders to manipulate the location arbitrarily, the location must be a wayspot with a high overall rating and a "high safety of location" rating in the review phase. (However, once a Pokémon Gym is selected, it will not become a Gym again within one year.)

    I think this would reduce the number of dead spots in Pokémon GO and provide an incentive to nominate wayspots that do not usually appear.

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I though at one point Niantic were trialling more of a "Harry Potter" type way of getting daily coins that reduced the reliance on just sitting in Gyms and made people actually go out an walk or spin or interact with the game to get the full days worth of coins. I like that idea, I presume the AU and NZ testing was a failure then?

    As for Nominating - if I nominate something it is because I think it would make a good Waypoint, what games it might appear in or how it will affect individual game gameboards has no bearing on how or where I nominate it.

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 2,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, they tried that but people didn’t want to do daily tasks for coins it seems and were happier to sit in a gym.

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The "exploration" and "exercise" parts of the Niantic ideals do seem to be missing from a large number of players ideas of how the game "should" work.......

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's because a large portion of the Pokemon Go player base prefer to be lazy and have even resorted to using the disabled as a shield to hide their desire to be lazy behind. I don't think Niantic should ever listen to them.

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 2,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why explore and exercise when people could spin a stop that they can reach from their house?

    Probably getting off track, but unless it’s a “sticky” gym that’s going to allow someone to put a Pokémon in for 200 days+ with no effort, there’s no difference to many players between PokéStop A and PokéStop B. They don’t burn out, and have no strategic value.

    You also have people who started playing during the pandemic bonuses, who don’t know how the game is supposed to work with getting out there etc.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 780 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10

    The Lv13 area is about 1km on each side.

    If a Pokémon Gym is randomly moved in an area of 1 km square, it is unlikely that the number of inaccessible people will obviously increase.

    If a Pokémon Gym is moved, it might be 500 meters away for one player. But for another player, it may be 500 meters closer.

    Also, a walk of about 1 km should be a normal and possible distance for a human being.

    In "Pikmin Bloom," the standard appears to be 10000 steps.

    This is 7 km if one step is 70 cm.

    In reality, the distance is shorter than this because planting flowers increases the value. However, if you think about it that way, walking 1 km is not such a difficult distance.

    Also, I don't know what specific numbers you have in mind for ease of access to PokéStops and Pokémon Gyms.

    But the Niantic games we play only create value when people go outdoors and move their bodies.

    If you want to play on the couch, the PlayStation has better graphics, and playing "Ring Fitness" on the Nintendoswitch is probably healthier.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 780 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like that idea too.

    I think it is better that the system incentivizes people to move.

    And if moving gyms randomly takes advantage of wayspots not used in Pokémon GO, that would actually be a plus for players.

    And for Wayfinder, it would also provide an incentive to nominate POI even if it is a game they don't primarily play.

  • Elijustrying-INGElijustrying-ING Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Please don’t make a assumptions. I normally cover over 100km a week leisure walking, and for me the great part has always been about going out, but I try not to use just my experience in reflecting on what does or doesn’t work, but look at the broader base.

    I don’t know what sort of area you live in so what your experience is.

    There are many ways that a place can be inaccessible, that have nothing to do with the distance someone has in theory travel.

    A physical barrier such as river, rail line, gorge can split a S2 level 13 cell and from having a point nearby when looked at on a blank grid might involve a much more substantial distance. Since you are talking of gym placement this may leave a rural community without suitable access to a gym. In a more urban area the gym could end up being in a restricted access area. If an area had an exgym and they ever bring exraids back a community could completely lose these.

    In urban areas relocation to area where you may not feel safe does encourage people to go out.

    Being able to get people out in person, is important to community- something that is also key. It is also great if you have some level access areas so that those with mobility issues can get the benefit of exercise and community.

    I hope that gives more to consider, but this really has little to do with Wayfarer, it’s a game developer issue and is a non-starter. So I don’t see that this serves any real purpose in exploring further.

  • tp235-INGtp235-ING Posts: 780 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Frankly, to me it sounds like you are looking for a convenient excuse for not wanting to move it farther away.

    Well, moving the Pokemon Gym on a regular basis will not happen until the Pokémon GO team decides to do so.

    This time, I merely made one suggestion, so it is unlikely that the matter I am talking about will come to fruition.

    But on the other hand, many Wayfinders will understand that many of the causes of abusive behavior when looking at current Wayfarer are due to Pokémon GO's Pokemon Gym generation and PokeStop generation requirements.

    This is why Niantic is currently undergoing a major location modification.

    I would like to see the game board rules structured in a way that achieves Niantic's philosophy and creates an incentive to nominate wayspot.

    Also, the barriers to movement you mention could exist at any cell level.

    In Ingress, there are places you can't reach even within Lv17, because it's 40m.

    But none of the Ingress players care, and I wouldn't say there is a limit to access.

    Just have to move.

    Even in everyday life, if a statue that was a Pokémon Gym is removed, it occurs that the Pokemon Gym moves to the park on the other side of the river.

    And you brought up the subject of a person with a mobility ****, but Ingress players accept and play with players with mobility **** in XM Anomaly as well as in their normal play.

    For example, if he says, "I want to go to the observation deck at the top of that hill," other players will gladly push his wheelchair.

    They will not be happy to have access to a portal without getting there, and they will not want to change the game board rules in a game that is no fun unless they get there.

  • Ferrothorn88-INGFerrothorn88-ING Posts: 61 ✭✭✭

    It wasn't that simple. As someone else said, niantic implemented the idea poorly, and at the wrong time. Plus, rather than simply introducing an alternative way to earn coins, they set it up so that you had to earn some coins the old way, and some the new way. You couldn't simply pick one or the other as you pleased.

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Think the issue was more that you had go do all the tasks to get 50 coins, one of which included winning a raid that, when in the middle of a pandemic, would potentially cost have cost 100 coins to do .... oh and coins earned earned gyms took away from thst 50 clins I believe, with a minimum of 5 coims coming from the tasks then (so if you got 50 coins from gym, yiu got 5 coins from tasks and and was it). Most people liked the idea of doing say, 10 tasks, getting 5 coins from each task as well as your gym coins

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