Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful "park"...but it's still a cemetery. You can't expect people to 5 star nominations that are in a place where people get buried. After all, it's Niantic employees who deleted a lot of stuff in or near cemeteries (At least here in germany).
I see my comment has caused a lot of confusion in the Community, we apologize for the bad phrasing there.
Please note that by "action taken" it doesn't mean we have punished their account, it meant we have only educated the reviewers. I repeat no warning was sent to their account.
I still wonder how have you "educated the reviewers" because I have never seen anyone claiming to have received any message from Niantic explaining anything about the reviews that they have done, only warnings, penalties and drop of rating without any explanation and people give up.
Educate the reviewers on what specifically? Because as I said before, those rejections appeared to comply with the Wayspot criteria and guidelines and are therefore correct. What exactly did the reviewers do or get wrong?
When this rant was posted originally, I took one look at the absolutely ineligible graveyard entrance sign and didn't go any further. Now I am concerned. If someone shouts enough, does criteria change? Action was taken on people who correctly rejected? Even if the action is education, are you talking about a link to https://niantic.helpshift.com/hc/en/21-wayfarer/section/166-wayspot-criteria/?%20s=wayspot-eligibility like in the rejected appeal decisions? That does absolutely nothing to tell people why their reviews were wrong. If they even were.
@NianticGiffard You need to educate all of us as well. That's the core problem, not the nature of what the action was. Many of the items here (e.g. generic memorial benches, non-famous markers in cemeteries, individal golf holes) have been explicitly stated as ineligible by Niantic in the past (cemetery markers are even on the Rejection Criteria page). Are they now all eligible?
Anyone else not sure the markers are in cemeteries, the full name of "Sunland Park" is actually "Sunland Memorial Park". "A peaceful final resting place for loved ones in the Sun City community." (Or a formerly peaceful final resting place when Raid Hour starts.)
So many of you think submissions in graveyards should be rejected when I have never seen Niantic say this but I have seen a clarification that says they can be elegible.
Besides there being a number of tombs and graves already as POI, I keep getting the grave of a famous author (Everyone knows their books) rejected even though the cemetery had out a sign up pointing people to it.
The OP had a valid and correct point about graveyard submissions but was set upon because he wouldn't bow down to the more vocal ones who think they are always correct because they are seasoned Wayfarers. A toxicity seen time and time again in these forums.
Funny seeing so many convinced they are teaching the OP who actually knows that particular rule better than they do ;)
Forum bullies, do your thing with a mass disagree vote of my post, and prove my point in the process ;)
They can be eligible under certain conditions, I don't believe anyone thinks otherwise.
A lot of the op's submissions didn't meet those conditions irrespective of how Niantic reviewed them on appeal.
Personally I'm not fond of adding things in cemeteries in my locale as I see their function as a place for people visiting to remember family/friends as much more important than a stop/portal/data point in lightship.
@NianticGiffard I'm apparently one of the 67 reviewers in need of correction. I'm sure that I've made mistakes in reviews, although never with any sort of agenda as accused by OP. I've reviewed 4,580 nominations so far, and have a 'Great' rating, for whatever that is worth.
Given that you and OP appear to agree on a unique interpretation of Waypoint criteria apart from the rest of us in this thread, why don't we take this opportunity to walk through specific examples of how my reviews were out of line, so much so that they required a direct email and a link to the Wayfarer Help Center page. I give you permission to display and discuss my review(s) of OP's nominations so that we can all learn from this rather unique experience.
Point proven with the downvoted and the above mail suggests the same downvoters who think they are always correct, are not and had to be corrected by Niantic.
They argued I was wrong about trail markers without names and derided me until Niantic put them in their place and confirmed they were ok. Yet still they reject them.
Wayfarers always think they are right and they are above Niantic even when told explicitly. This is another case of this.
Nuff said ;)
It's a shame my own graveyard rejection has to sit in appeal so long when it could have been a POI almost a year ago, all due to voters who reject everything
I’ve seen and read a lot of things in these forums that could deter someone from using Wayfarer, but a Niantic-led reeducation campaign of reviewers who correctly rejected a pile of coal is as discouraging as it gets.
Seeing the way in which these emails were sent is very discouraging. I think we all agree that we would like Niantic to do a better job of educating reviewers. Most of us in this forum, in particular, are here because we want to learn to become better reviewers, or help others do so.
Canned emails and responses do not help any of us understand what Niantic wants us to do differently next time.
If you want to **** off wayfarer and eliminate your free labor reviewing points... This thread is a GREAT way of doing it.
@NianticGiffard You took whining from a poster who whines a lot, showing multiple poor submissions then sent out messages to 67 people saying they have been incorrectly reviewing. You didn't give any specifics..... Did you agree with all of @KingWinterGreen-ING submissions or only some of them? Was the email prompted to rejections of ANY of the ones he listed or just some of them. You didn't even in the email response say what nomination prompted the email and why they were wrong. If I was one of the 67 people getting that email and saw this thread, I would cease any and all reviewing.
Some of those submissions Niantic approved on appeal, I'd have approved EXCEPT for the fact that Niantic specifically said not to. Niantic has expressly said No to Memorial Plaques/Benches unless famous. Even using those as anchors for trails/views is hard to get passed because of Niantic. Those used to be approved, then Niantic changed the rules, now it appears Niantic is changing again by approving appeals that your own rules are against. Then you are emailing people they aren't following the rules when its the Appeals Department that isn't following the rules.
Personally, I'd happily go back to accepting memorials. BUT you need to say that, not email people that are following the rules.
Thanks! I overlapped King & Random because the nature of their posts suggesting everyone else in the community is the one wrong is so similiar in content and tone.
Adding to this comment, the OP was already been told many times that he shouldn't use '@' symbol as part of nomination title. Yet he won't ever listen.
Guess people's advice are going through the wall instead of him, right?
Niantic has indeed said this but that's not really the point. It's up to the nominator to justify how and why they meet at least one of the criteria, and up to reviewers to deem whether they're acceptable according to local community values. Submitters can't just go around randomly nominating things because they feel like it, whether they're gateposts or memorial plaques.
Obviously in some cases memorials are eligible. There's one just round the corner from here to mark the spot where a famous historical figure died and of course that is a wayspot. But if you would like to take a walk along the Weston-super-Mare seafront, there's about half a mile of continuous memorial benches to 'Fred and Esther' etc. When I say continuous, they're actually tight up next to each other. Clearly, nobody in their right mind could ever dream that they might be acceptable wayspots.
Comments
Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful "park"...but it's still a cemetery. You can't expect people to 5 star nominations that are in a place where people get buried. After all, it's Niantic employees who deleted a lot of stuff in or near cemeteries (At least here in germany).
Sunland Memorial Park, Mortuary & Cremation Center | Funeral, Cremation & Cemetery (dignitymemorial.com)
What exactly did those reviews get wrong exactly, because those rejections appeared to comply with the criteria and guidelines?
my faith in niantic (and humanity) is lowered every day
There’s only 1 wayfinder in this thread that Niantic needs to take action against.
Seriously?
You took action on reviewers for rejecting invalid nominations?
How can you expect them to trust you any longer?
because..they can.
I see my comment has caused a lot of confusion in the Community, we apologize for the bad phrasing there.
Please note that by "action taken" it doesn't mean we have punished their account, it meant we have only educated the reviewers. I repeat no warning was sent to their account.
I still wonder how have you "educated the reviewers" because I have never seen anyone claiming to have received any message from Niantic explaining anything about the reviews that they have done, only warnings, penalties and drop of rating without any explanation and people give up.
And yet reviewers rejected most of these correctly. It’s the nominator who needs reeducation.
Educate the reviewers on what specifically? Because as I said before, those rejections appeared to comply with the Wayspot criteria and guidelines and are therefore correct. What exactly did the reviewers do or get wrong?
When this rant was posted originally, I took one look at the absolutely ineligible graveyard entrance sign and didn't go any further. Now I am concerned. If someone shouts enough, does criteria change? Action was taken on people who correctly rejected? Even if the action is education, are you talking about a link to https://niantic.helpshift.com/hc/en/21-wayfarer/section/166-wayspot-criteria/?%20s=wayspot-eligibility like in the rejected appeal decisions? That does absolutely nothing to tell people why their reviews were wrong. If they even were.
@NianticGiffard You need to educate all of us as well. That's the core problem, not the nature of what the action was. Many of the items here (e.g. generic memorial benches, non-famous markers in cemeteries, individal golf holes) have been explicitly stated as ineligible by Niantic in the past (cemetery markers are even on the Rejection Criteria page). Are they now all eligible?
Anyone else not sure the markers are in cemeteries, the full name of "Sunland Park" is actually "Sunland Memorial Park". "A peaceful final resting place for loved ones in the Sun City community." (Or a formerly peaceful final resting place when Raid Hour starts.)
So many of you think submissions in graveyards should be rejected when I have never seen Niantic say this but I have seen a clarification that says they can be elegible.
Besides there being a number of tombs and graves already as POI, I keep getting the grave of a famous author (Everyone knows their books) rejected even though the cemetery had out a sign up pointing people to it.
The OP had a valid and correct point about graveyard submissions but was set upon because he wouldn't bow down to the more vocal ones who think they are always correct because they are seasoned Wayfarers. A toxicity seen time and time again in these forums.
Funny seeing so many convinced they are teaching the OP who actually knows that particular rule better than they do ;)
Forum bullies, do your thing with a mass disagree vote of my post, and prove my point in the process ;)
They can be eligible under certain conditions, I don't believe anyone thinks otherwise.
A lot of the op's submissions didn't meet those conditions irrespective of how Niantic reviewed them on appeal.
Personally I'm not fond of adding things in cemeteries in my locale as I see their function as a place for people visiting to remember family/friends as much more important than a stop/portal/data point in lightship.
Niantic says in the Rejection Criteria:
None of the markers posted are for significant/historical figures.
@NianticGiffard I'm apparently one of the 67 reviewers in need of correction. I'm sure that I've made mistakes in reviews, although never with any sort of agenda as accused by OP. I've reviewed 4,580 nominations so far, and have a 'Great' rating, for whatever that is worth.
Given that you and OP appear to agree on a unique interpretation of Waypoint criteria apart from the rest of us in this thread, why don't we take this opportunity to walk through specific examples of how my reviews were out of line, so much so that they required a direct email and a link to the Wayfarer Help Center page. I give you permission to display and discuss my review(s) of OP's nominations so that we can all learn from this rather unique experience.
Thanks, and I look forward to the feedback.
Point proven with the downvoted and the above mail suggests the same downvoters who think they are always correct, are not and had to be corrected by Niantic.
They argued I was wrong about trail markers without names and derided me until Niantic put them in their place and confirmed they were ok. Yet still they reject them.
Wayfarers always think they are right and they are above Niantic even when told explicitly. This is another case of this.
Nuff said ;)
It's a shame my own graveyard rejection has to sit in appeal so long when it could have been a POI almost a year ago, all due to voters who reject everything
Assuming this isn't another incorrect copy and paste then 67 is an interesting and telling number to have taken action against.
I’ve seen and read a lot of things in these forums that could deter someone from using Wayfarer, but a Niantic-led reeducation campaign of reviewers who correctly rejected a pile of coal is as discouraging as it gets.
Seeing the way in which these emails were sent is very discouraging. I think we all agree that we would like Niantic to do a better job of educating reviewers. Most of us in this forum, in particular, are here because we want to learn to become better reviewers, or help others do so.
Canned emails and responses do not help any of us understand what Niantic wants us to do differently next time.
What valid and correct point?
If you want to **** off wayfarer and eliminate your free labor reviewing points... This thread is a GREAT way of doing it.
@NianticGiffard You took whining from a poster who whines a lot, showing multiple poor submissions then sent out messages to 67 people saying they have been incorrectly reviewing. You didn't give any specifics..... Did you agree with all of @KingWinterGreen-ING submissions or only some of them? Was the email prompted to rejections of ANY of the ones he listed or just some of them. You didn't even in the email response say what nomination prompted the email and why they were wrong. If I was one of the 67 people getting that email and saw this thread, I would cease any and all reviewing.
Some of those submissions Niantic approved on appeal, I'd have approved EXCEPT for the fact that Niantic specifically said not to. Niantic has expressly said No to Memorial Plaques/Benches unless famous. Even using those as anchors for trails/views is hard to get passed because of Niantic. Those used to be approved, then Niantic changed the rules, now it appears Niantic is changing again by approving appeals that your own rules are against. Then you are emailing people they aren't following the rules when its the Appeals Department that isn't following the rules.
Personally, I'd happily go back to accepting memorials. BUT you need to say that, not email people that are following the rules.
@Cowyn2016-PGO I think you tagged the wrong person accidentally. KingWinterGreen is the poster you're referring too.
Thanks! I overlapped King & Random because the nature of their posts suggesting everyone else in the community is the one wrong is so similiar in content and tone.
Adding to this comment, the OP was already been told many times that he shouldn't use '@' symbol as part of nomination title. Yet he won't ever listen.
Guess people's advice are going through the wall instead of him, right?
"given that rejecting them is one if the few things Niantic has actually been explicit about"
Where is that information about memorial benches and memorial plaques not being eligible? Just curious.
Niantic has indeed said this but that's not really the point. It's up to the nominator to justify how and why they meet at least one of the criteria, and up to reviewers to deem whether they're acceptable according to local community values. Submitters can't just go around randomly nominating things because they feel like it, whether they're gateposts or memorial plaques.
Obviously in some cases memorials are eligible. There's one just round the corner from here to mark the spot where a famous historical figure died and of course that is a wayspot. But if you would like to take a walk along the Weston-super-Mare seafront, there's about half a mile of continuous memorial benches to 'Fred and Esther' etc. When I say continuous, they're actually tight up next to each other. Clearly, nobody in their right mind could ever dream that they might be acceptable wayspots.
@jokeinsurance-PGO Here’s one instance.
The Wayfarer team is working on an educational campaign (an old tune, I know but I have seen them! This is coming!)
Sigh.