Removal Appeal as an invalid portal was removed causing another to vanish.

ClassicBoonie-PGOClassicBoonie-PGO Posts: 100 ✭✭
edited July 12 in Invalid Wayspot Appeals

This one is a bit confusing so bear with me. I understand how the placement works now.

The missing wayspot is Saddlebrook West Bike Path #9. It was submitted on 5/22/22 and approved on 5/26/22.

These are all in Bowie, MD USA

There are 3 locations reported below that take up 2 sections.

The location we are dealing with is about here:

(38.9993158, -76.7459909)

That is Saddlebrook West Bike Path #3. For some reason when it was placed, it was put in the street but if you zoom in on the map, the bike path sign is at the fence. All of the other bike path stops are centered as such.

I submitted, in the past, Saddlebrook West Basketball Court here

(38.9989435, -76.7456345)

I was under the impression this was the HOA office and that was something for the visitors. I was mistaken. This only appeared in Ingress as it likely shared a section with Stretch Pole Exercise Station.

Later, I had Saddlebrook West Bike Path #9 approved.

(38.9991658, -76.7458863)

I thought it went to only Ingress but it’s not there anymore. The basketball court however occupied the same section, causing 3 to be there. Well, it doesn’t make sense because basketball and stretch weren’t sharing or barely were.

Anyway, we had basketball removed because it was private property. Live and learn. This should however have brought #9 to life in GO as it would be the sole occupant of that section which would allow a new stop.

I noticed today though that it’s missing in Ingress as well. I feel it was there.

I’ve been checking for updates on location corrections for #3, and I did one today though I am not sure why the others have not been rejected. But #3 should not impact #9.

Anyway, since #9 meets all criteria, is in its own section, and since we removed basketball court, can we get #9 live in GO and in Ingress as it should be? We have a lovely exercise course here and I want it represented fully in both games. Even Ingress acknowledges the partial version as a course or whatever.

I do not know why #9 is missing though, as it should have been live in Ingress but now it is eligible in GO because of it meeting location rules.

Post edited by NianticGiffard on

Comments

  • ClassicBoonie-PGOClassicBoonie-PGO Posts: 100 ✭✭

    I was looking for #9 and found it here:

    The pin where it is located is incorrect. The pin that we move around when nominating is where it should’ve been.

    That area has a troublesome signal for phones at times, so it’s likely my finger slipped. I also did not know you can’t edit the location once uploaded like you can edit text. And I prematurely upgraded it making it unable to be withdrawn and resubmitted.

    All of the bike path signs are next to the white fences here. Putting them in the middle was just an OCD thing but if we want accuracy, it’s on he fence like the others. But this would restore this in both Ingress and GO especially now that the private half-court is gone.

  • ClassicBoonie-PGOClassicBoonie-PGO Posts: 100 ✭✭

    Someone suggested I tag you @NianticGiffard as you seem to do appeals. In-game support sent me to Pokémongolive.com/report-location but I do not believe that was correct info.

    Normally, we’d have it moved via ingress but we can’t even do that. We also can’t resubmit it.

    I prefer it to be moved by you instead of removed so I have to nominate it again, but I just want it in its correct spot.

  • Tntnnbltn-INGTntnnbltn-ING Posts: 696 Ambassador
    edited July 9

    The location for Bike Path 3 appears to be spot on to me.


    Looking at the Wayfarer app, the location of the Wayspot for Bike Path 9 is 38.9991390,-76.7459280. This makes it not eligible to appear in Pokemon Go or Ingress due to proximity with Bike Path 3.

    Based on the Wayspot photo, the correct location is on the left (east) edge of the trail, in front of the fence, near where it intersects with the sidewalk. It does appear that the Wayspot should be closer to the road, and if it was going to be moved I would recommend it be moved 5-6 metres closer to the road, to approx. 38.999189,-76.745931. However, it would still not be eligible to appear in Pokemon Go or Ingress due to the same proximity issues.

    The location where you have shown the pin on the map seems to be a worse location than the current one, as that would push the bike path trail behind and left of the white fence shown in the photograph.

  • ClassicBoonie-PGOClassicBoonie-PGO Posts: 100 ✭✭
    edited July 9

    The pin is an estimate but it should be closer to the fence than where it is.

    The game shows #3 in the street which is incorrect. Perhaps the streets in the game are wrong then?

    Also, 3 is in a different cell than where 9 should be. 6 and 7 are in close proximity and are in different cells. Proximity apparently doesn’t matter as long as they’re not occupying the same space, from how it was explained to me.

    9 should be about where I set it which 1) is more accurate and 2) would still be in a different cell, so 3 does not matter. I just don’t like the visual of the stop being in the street (in GO). Looks tacky.

    But the center is inaccurate. It should not be closer to the road because it would put it in the street in the games. If it was in ingress or GO, I could stand at the location and do the edit from there for exact location coordinates, but it’s not.

    The fact is another portal was occupying that cell, but it was one never meant to be approved. We had it removed but #9 was lost and #9 should have at least been in Ingress.

    These coordinates:

    (38.9991785, -76.7459067)

    Are where it should be as it’s in front of the fence, it’s on the correct (eastern) side of the path, and it’s closer to the road. And it is in an unoccupied space so would be eligible because #3 is in its own little world there. It just looks bad for being in the street. But so do the houses look bad being in the street as that happens.

  • ClassicBoonie-PGOClassicBoonie-PGO Posts: 100 ✭✭

    How are you able to get pictures here but also be reporting stuff in Sydney, AU at the same time? Aren’t ambassadors set to where they play? Didn’t know that was a thing.

  • Tntnnbltn-INGTntnnbltn-ING Posts: 696 Ambassador

    The Ingress map and the Wayfarer app are able to view portals anywhere in the world, so I thought I would help out in this case, despite being located in Australia. There's only 12 Ambassadors to cover the planet, after all. :-) I keep in frequent touch with the US ambassadors anyway.

    The game shows #3 in the street which is incorrect. Perhaps the streets in the game are wrong then?

    If you mean in the regular Pokemon Go view, the streets would be rendered with a default thickness based on the map style, so may appear wider or thinner than the actual street. If you mean that the screenshot you showed which appears when making a new submission, the Wayspot is located at the centre of the Pokestop icon, not the bottom.

    6 and 7 are in close proximity and are in different cells.

    The submitted locations of Bike Path 6 (39.000403,-76.746096) and Bike Path 7 (39.00023,-76.746021) mean they are eligible to appear in both Ingress and Pokemon Go in accordance with each game's proximity rules. However, looking at the satellite imagery, it appears that this was only possible because both Bike Path 6 and 7 were submitted a few metres away from the correct locations. For example, the sign for Bike Path 7 is located on the right hand side of the footpath, a few metres in front of the fence.

    The submitted location for Bike Path 7, however, is in the centre of the path and behind the fences. Based on comparison of the satellite imagery and photographs, it would seem that a more accurate location for Bike Path 7 would have been 39.000265,-76.746038. (See map below.) If it had have been submitted at this more accurate location, it would not have been eligible to appear in either game.

    I can understand it can be frustrating when Wayspots do not appear in games you play, but the nature of these Wayspots (bike path trail markers on opposite sites of a road) means that proximity issues may mean that not all of the signs can appear. But by being accepted as a Wayspot it means that it may appear in other games in the future which use Niantic's database.

  • ClassicBoonie-PGOClassicBoonie-PGO Posts: 100 ✭✭

    This is 6 & 7. The distance is not dissimilar to 3 and 9. You can see how close they are in proximity in Ingress, but they occupy different spaces. They could be moved closer together and still be eligible as long as one didn’t cross the other’s line.

    (39.0003344, -76.7460744) is their location.

    The stops touch in GO. This is not the only instance of this and it’s not a bad thing either (other than looking ugly). Spreading them apart would make their location in accurate.

    Satellite does not always show the signs. The center poles in the different path entrances are actually padlocked to that spot to stop vehicles from driving up the paths. Usually we can see the shadow from the view.

    The signs however are not centered but on either side. #9 is on the east of the path. But due to either 1) signal issue, 2) me zooming in & forgetting to replace the pin to the side, or 3) a reviewer did an edit suggestion to the center, it is in the wrong spot and farther back than intended.

    (38.9991785, -76.7459067)

    Is the correct coordinates for this wayspot as I described. Not only is it accurate but it completes (minus the 2 in queue) the workout course for this area, marking each entrance. It would see pretty ridiculous to have a partial course in the games when routes and whatnot are coming. Ingress has some tour thing they do for developed areas. Forgot the term.

    My goal is, once the last 3 are set (I can’t get the true final one as its area is occupied, so there’s no way to add it), is to get help fixing the numbering system as it all got messed up.

    We've had a few upgrades in the area, so pictures have been updated, and we’ve also had some new things added here, two of which are live. But the problem is, most of the PoIs here are under trees so it’s extremely difficult to get their exact location. With help, and close inspection of the treetops, we’ve been able to put in edits to more accurate spots. We lost a few PoIs but that’s fine.

    There are many inaccurate PoIs around the town. Slowly but surely we’ll have them corrected.

    Nut for now, if #9 can go here: (38.9991785, -76.7459067), this should resolve this for Ingress, GO, and any future applications.

  • ClassicBoonie-PGOClassicBoonie-PGO Posts: 100 ✭✭

    Thanks for explaining ambassadors.

    I thought the pointy part of the pins is the spot and the larger part is just to make it stand out? Just like real push pins.

    One can argue that the bike path signs are just the identifiers for the paths. The actual path itself is the part we care about. So the head of the path would be the wayspot. There are plenty of unmarked trails (but are named on maps), that are wayspots. Couldn’t give a specific example.

    Bike Path signs in this case point to exercise but the goal is to get people on the paths, not to look at the sign. The pictures were changed because the signs are ugly, even with the logo on them. In GO, at least, the pictures center on the object but showing more of the natural surroundings like trees, plants, blue sky, grass, et cetera.

    Initially, the signs were the main photo but the wayspot is for the path, not the sign itself. And you know how accurate wayfinders are on wayfarer. A sign stating “bike path” has a higher chance of getting a proper review than the intended photos. Bike path #8 you see as a sign. However, this is it in GO

    Much better photo minus the moldy fence. The bike path is the center of the photo, showing the sign, and the view when exploring.

    So as #9 was submitted, I think, it should’ve been centered around the sign, so reviewers know what to look for (had many problems in this neighborhood with troll reviews in the past, but I’m told it was resolved), and the sign goes to the coordinates I provided. But the picture will be updated to better reflect the actual bike path.

    If you look here

    You can see the images. But the middle-left photo is new. The supporting photo would make a better main photo, but for now, we wanted to show what it is. The photos with the green signs used to be just those ugly signs. Not attractive. Adding the natural surroundings to the photo gives a much better look. But we tried submitting like that in the past, and all got rejected. Easier to give what the average wayfinder knows, then submit the photo later and update from there.

    Regardless, it’s all accurate. And we want what we put in-game to reflect the natural beauty of this area for anyone to see. It’s unfortunate that Ingress and Intel Map do not get the updated photos.

    I think my mistake with #9 was not centering the photo on the sign for submission. But that one spot is a dead zone for my carrier, plus it was hot, so I was possibly trying to get in and out without planning ahead. What I normally do is take the 2 photos needed for submission plus a 3rd replacement photo for later. Sometimes that 3rd photo comes much later as I want perfect weather. It’s raining now so I can’t do an edit. And once Summer is over, it’s a wait for blue skies again.

    But for a TL;DR. The signs are for submitting as they are likely to get approved because “bike path” in big letters is easier. Submitting the full path is usually a waste of time as it will show houses and get dinged for private property. It makes sense if you see the updated photos on placement and whatnot.

    Unfortunately, I did not do all of these, so they weren’t placed as I had preferred, and that’s another project. I just have to make sure each one is as accurate as can be based on where I’m standing, especially in the tree-covered areas.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11

    Seems to me like you dug yourself a hole by naming the trail after arbitrary numbers... since each game has different inclusion rules, the numbering system will be "all messed up" in multiple games regardless of what you do. But rest assured the numbering will remain intact in the lightship database.

  • Tntnnbltn-INGTntnnbltn-ING Posts: 696 Ambassador

    I thought the pointy part of the pins is the spot and the larger part is just to make it stand out? Just like real push pins.

    For the nomination pin, the pointy part is where the Wayspot is located, yes.

    But for the duplicate map icons (the Pokestop and the ! pin), the Wayspot is under the centre of the icon, not the pointy part.

    It is confusing and I hope that Niantic fix it.

  • ClassicBoonie-PGOClassicBoonie-PGO Posts: 100 ✭✭

    I meant the one we move when placing a pin. Thanks for the clarification.

  • ClassicBoonie-PGOClassicBoonie-PGO Posts: 100 ✭✭

    CLOSE APPEAL THREAD PLEASE (@NianticGiffard)

    This issue has been resolved and everything is good and as it should be.

    Thank you.

This discussion has been closed.