This is why Niantic needs to be upfront and clear with players who about cells:

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Comments

  • Rodensteiner-PGORodensteiner-PGO Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Small Communities tend to stick together and ignore the others. They create their own world which shant be disturbed. Pokemon Go? Go Way. If you every try to move my anchor you will feel my wrath. I hear that alot.

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    Hey love the pun!!!! ha ha ha

    TBH go players are less stupid than ingress players ... they give the system a go and find it's like mucking out a stable so they sensibly chose to go do something fun like catch some pokemon ... ingress players get hyper fixated on data quality and eligibility - cause at least 1/3 of the community works with geospatial information in their real world jobs.

    You say evangelical gatekeeping ... but disappointment in reviewers ....that's been around for ever ...reviewers suck - they really do.

    Whether it's that old cranky man ingress player who vetos footbridges, to that silly pogo teen who thinks soccer is for wimps and vetos the soccer field. Or that guy who is uncomfortable with playgrounds in the game so will one star them. That person who is against religions and will 1 star churches. That dear friend who 1stars murals painted on walls because they are temporary. "cafes redecorate all the time" (****)

    Stupid decisions happen

    It's not gatekeeping, it's not untrained reviewers, it's not factional ... it's people ...

  • ZinkyZonk-INGZinkyZonk-ING Posts: 300 ✭✭✭✭

    I did respond but it not showing.

    Pogo players are a big tent group. People who are map people and people who aren't.

    Most ingress players are map people because the game requires so much map look up.

    I think you should RESIST the INSTINCT to rage against 'gate keeping' ENLIGHTEN yourself that reviewers use MYSTICAL arts to make their determination.

    Take the path of VALOR and keep on nominating nominations you consider meritorious. There's always appeal.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is one fantastic set of puns I must say. Got a pretty big laugh out of me!

    And yes, thank you for that statement about people. Pre-Wayfarer (i.e. when only Ingress players could vote), there was a ton of accusations about the whole gatekeeping thing and not accepting things which got even worse when it was opened up to Pogo players. But I think two years on, it's generally become neutral.

    One thing that made me happy was this statement:

    I have no idea what their nominations were, but I am very glad to read that as a diligent reviewer in NSW. Well, used to be in NSW...

  • 26thDoctor-PGO26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No rage :) It has always amused me that Ingress players care more about the thoughts and actions of Go players who don't really care about Ingress. I mean that in the nicest way possible.

    I've found the ones who are not invested in Wayfarer, which is probably about 95% of the playerbase, more likely to say

    ' No, I've never really tried Ingress but thanks for adding the stops' as opposed to

    ' How do I make pokest0pz at my house'

    To be honest most of the Go players I meet including the non Wayfarer ones know what cells are anyway. I think that's what this thread was about before I digressed.

  • SantaBumba-PGOSantaBumba-PGO Posts: 25 ✭✭


    Give this man a medal. Unbiased POV that perfectly describes the issues of WF as a whole, while adding PUNy humor in the middle of it for some comic relief.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭✭✭

    correction, *woman

    also, Danbocat is also a woman.

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 5,130 Ambassador

    On 1) @SeaprincessHNB-PGO they did mention on the Pokémon GO Campfire that they would add stops too to that map.

    I think for Pokémon GO, the map doesn’t matter as much as it does for Ingress. For Ingress, agents will draw up fielding plans and work out big operations using that map.

    For Pokémon GO, besides raid walks, what further use would there be to be able to see all the stops and gyms on a map?

    Again, I’ve noted that I don’t care about S2 cells and whatever will appear on what game, I just nominate interesting and eligible stuff. If I don’t get a Portal Key, ah well, it may pop up on another game, or appear in the current ones if something gets removed. So I am not invested if the answer is just related to cells. 🤷

  • 26thDoctor-PGO26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For Pokémon GO, besides raid walks, what further use would there be to be able to see all the stops and gyms on a map?

    I'm assuming @SeaprincessHNB-PGO meant in terms of getting Go players interested and involved in Wayfarer.

    I haven't put in as much effort as @SeaprincessHNB-PGO has although I did once try to get players to do just 10 reviews a day. It didn't work. The system is convoluted, hidden behind obscure rules, the wait time for having a poi go through and then having a perfectly valid submission rejected due to incorrect reviews doesn't encourage anyone to want to take part.

  • 26thDoctor-PGO26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These are not 'Ma house Pokest0pz plz' players they include Doctors, teachers, parents, 60+ years old to 16 years old.

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 5,130 Ambassador

    Ah I see. I do play Pokémon GO too 😮 but only really use it for Wayfarer for a dupe check, or if I have used all 40 Ingress ones.

    I was thinking of regular GO gameplay. It’s nice to see the map, but I don’t think the Campfire map really adds a ton of use?

    Niantic could be more upfront with the simple change many of us have said to explain you’re nominating a Wayspot, not a PokéStop and just a mention that not all accepted things will go into all games covers (before nomination is started/submitted) that and then I don’t see a need (I don’t overly see one now) at all to tell players about the cells.

  • 26thDoctor-PGO26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't raid that much anymore, rarely using my 7/14 free passes a week, the general opinion I've encountered is that it's ok but needs a lot of extra functions if it wants to replace the various ways people already have of arranging raids.

    I found it only really useful for seeing what raids are on that are beyond the visual limits in Go.

  • Melurra-PGOMelurra-PGO Posts: 421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I was in Pogo groups on Facebook, there would be a post at least once a week, if not more often, saying "I'm going to be in [City] for a business trip/family visit, any good places to go for community day/raid hour/spotlight hour/bag restock?" Sure, these travelers could maybe surmise that a park might be good, but no way for them to know on their own if a certain park has wayspots or how many. Likewise, even locals could want to explore a new area, but want to play Pogo while they walk, so they would choose to go to a place that has at least a few stops. If Pogo had something similar to Intel, Pogo players could use it to guide their exploration.

    Intel has info like faction that controls a portal and resonators and such. Perhaps the equivalent would be showing which team controls a gym and what Pokemon are in there, so gameplay could be guided that way. Not saying it would be more important than in Ingress, but definitely has potential uses.

  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 1,609 Ambassador

    Maps of stops would definitely help people know where to play in new areas.

    I screamed for years that a raid map would help them sell more raid passes and was blown away at how long it took them to give us one. We check Campfire every Wednesday to see what route we want to take for raiding so that we don't waste time going where there's only a single raid when we could go another direction and hit 3 or 4 in the same time.

    I'd find the other stuff useful but some toxic behavior could arise from seeing gym control if players are inclined that way.

  • JillJilyJabadoo-PGOJillJilyJabadoo-PGO Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "I found it only really useful for seeing what raids are on that are beyond the visual limits in Go."

    But that's a literal game-changer for people in rural areas. It's not practical to drive 20 minutes into town to see if one of the 3 gyms happens to have a raid (not usually) and if it's worth doing (I'll do it because I'm here and don't want another 40-minute round-trip to come back, I guess). Not to mention you've got basically no time to get other locals to come out, so you have to rely on remotes for 5* and mega raids. With Campfire, there's plenty of time to see a raid coming and send a shout to your local chat (or do a flare, I guess, when more people have Campfire access) to organize enough people for it.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,560 Ambassador

    In the past, having a Pokemon defending a gym would allow one to see raid information (boss and timers) with an easy click. That functionality went away with the introduction of remote raids. Now, I can use Campfire before heading out to take a gym to see if it's raidblocked (or will be by the time I get there) or can look for soloable bosses at gyms I'm close to getting gold. I can also see if my accepted nominations in distant areas made another gym for the locals. I'm planning a foreign trip in spring and I already know what gyms are closest, what places might be ripe for submissions, and what sort of sponsored gyms are around - info I can't easily find on Intel. I love Campfire and am a proud Patient Zero for invites in my town. But I'm also the member of a minority team that's targeted on a regular basis, and am glad that Team Ownership and defender info are not shown.

    Back on topic: Niantic did not invent or ever claim ownership of the S2 L* cell system library. I doubt they'd include third-party content in their in-game maps. Once you get used to using specific tools to visualize cells, though, it gets a lot less confusing!

  • 26thDoctor-PGO26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As a non raiding, non rural player I wouldn't have considered thirst benefits :)

  • 26thDoctor-PGO26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    *those... because who knows how long an edit will take.

  • Belahzur-INGBelahzur-ING Posts: 632 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm with Jay here, I'm not sure why the pogo'ers need to know or see these invisible cell lines (remember Niantic has never actually confirmed how the pogo gamebard works).

    I submit stuff regardless of what it is or where it is, I play several different Nia games (including some of the now sunset games) - If it meets criteria and is genuinely interesting, I submit it, doesn't matter which game it lands into it, put the pin where it best fits and let the system do the rest.

    Yes I agree Niantic could do better in how they word stuff, specifically changing it to wayspot and not portal/pokeyst0pz/inns/flowers etc and make it clear from the get-go that not everything is included in your gameboard of choice.

    Also worth mentioning, Niantic (on the ingress forums and here) has confirmed 20 meters, and Ingress does show you specifically in the in-game UI how far away a portal is if you tap on it, so it's easy to know where 20 meter ends for submitting purposes and doesn't require any 3rd party tools beyond the bare minimum of knowing 20 meters exists.

  • 26thDoctor-PGO26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm with Jay here, I'm not sure why the pogo'ers need to know or see these invisible cell lines (remember Niantic has never actually confirmed how the pogo gamebard works)

    The vast majority of Go players don't want to submit 25, 50, 100 things.

    Most will submit things on the routes they travel. Some will submit things they find interesting, unusual or worth sharing with others. A very, very small percentage will submit mundane trail markers, obscure historic items and well anything really :)

    If the most and the some are met with their submissions being accepted but not appearing or only appearing in a game they have never played they most likely won't persevere in either submitting or reviewing.

    I would take a more active Wayfarer bad and having to review the occasional 'This would be a great pokerstop' over the current slow appeal time and even slower review time.

  • 26thDoctor-PGO26thDoctor-PGO Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    *base...edit approval :/

  • FurtadoV-PGOFurtadoV-PGO Posts: 40 ✭✭

    A useless discussion at this forum because Niantic was never clear about their games' "rules" for the POIs and when submitting or reviewing a nomination/contribution you are doing it exclusively to Wayfarer/Lightship database (yeah, I know everything is "connected", but unfortunately, Niantic doesn't care about anything, especially the player's opinion...).


    However, talking about "the rules", it would be better if: (and probably, it would decrease the Wayfarer queue of edits and duplicates and other misunderstandings)

    -In Pokemon GO, turn/change level 17 to level 18 S2 cells to a pokestop appear in the game

    -In Ingress, the proximity rule could be changed to 5m or 10m

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 5,130 Ambassador

    -In Pokemon GO, turn/change level 17 to level 18 S2 cells to a pokestop appear in the game

    Whatever it gets reduced to, would never be enough for some Pokémon GO players.

  • SeaprincessHNB-PGOSeaprincessHNB-PGO Posts: 1,609 Ambassador

    I think it's a futile discussion because Niantic will never fix the issue and give PGO players better tools/explanations of why their POI don't appear in game.


    But I don't think it's a useless discussion if we want to understand why there is such a disparity between PGO players engaging in WF vs Ingress players. It is a LOT easier for Ingress Agents. And if we want WF to have more people involved overall, Niantic has to stop ignoring the 500 lb gorilla in the room. The PGO player base faaaaaaaaar exceeds that of any other game.

    If you want more Wayfarers, make it easier for PGO players to understand and benefit from.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FurtadoV-PGO Take a step back and think about the reasons for density rules.

    I have a Niantic-created artificially dense area near me. I don't play PoGo down there because every time I tap on something I get something different than what I am aiming for. Look at the very top of the screenshot. Even where I'm sitting half the time I tap on the gym and get the stop behind it. (I usually have the screen rotated a different direction.)




  • Belahzur-INGBelahzur-ING Posts: 632 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not really, no. Like I said, I submit stuff regardless, even stuff that only exists in Lightship and isn't actively used on any current gameboard, though my stuff primarily lands in Ingress, purely because the gameboard distance requirement is more friendly than the other games. Put the pin where you feel is best suited and let fate decide, if it's not used in your game, oh well move on, find something else to submit.

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