PoGo vs Ingress at war…
StuFerneli-PGO
Posts: 7 ✭✭
I know the ingress player radius is smaller than the new increased radius of PoGo. Therefore, it is more crucial to have ultra accurate POI locations for Ingress so the POI can be accessed easily. However, as PoGo players have a larger radius, accuracy isn’t that important - BTW I am only talking about being 1 metre or so off. As we know, PoGo can only have one POI in a S17 cell, therefore, sometimes when submitting I make sure the POI falls in its own S17 cell i.e. instead of being right at the front door of a quirky cafeteria, I’ll set it about 1 or 2 metres back from the door (still in the cafeteria mind you). However, in review the POI gets location edited and moved back to the front door for example! Then once accepted, it only appears in Ingress and not PoGo - I can’t tell you how frustrating this is; as I try to make PoGo better for the community but fail! I feel if a reviewer tries to move a POI by just a metre or so, it shouldn’t allow them; or it should be pushed back to the submitter to accept or reject the location edit. Does anyone else feel my frustration?
Comments
I've not had anyone move my submission a couple of metres. I've moved some, although not too many, only when they are way off though and it's obvious what the submitter is attempting.
Why do you think this is Ingress vs. PoGo rather than reviewers just striving for accuracy in general?
The problem with pushing things back to the submitter to accept or reject the edit is that it gives submitters carte blanche to misplace pins, and that's not cool.
I feel ingress reviewers want a more accurate POI as with their small radius it is more crucial to have the location at the front of a store, cafe etc. whereas a PoGo reviewer would 5 star the location even though it is a metre or so out as they would be able to reach it with ease regardless, especially if that would mean the POI would appear in PoGo too.
PoGo submission accepted and not location edited = appears in both Ingress and PoGo. PoGo submission accepted but location edited = appears in Ingress only
i wouldn’t want all location edits pushed back to the submitter, just those that are 2 metres or less, as that could mean the difference between appearing in PoGo or not. I agree a POI should be accurate but I feel if the POI location is basically on or within 2 metres it should be 5 starred.
Your just salty cause you didn't get mOaR sToPz and the imaginary lines dictate how you submit things.
Top tip for you. Place the pin where most makes sense, if that means its not in your game of choice, then oh well, move on and find something else.
You are right, I am salty aka frustrated, as I spend time and effort in researching POIs, understanding the criteria and submitting (what I think is) a well thought out POI.
When I attend Go Fests and Safari Zones what makes PoGo great is the number of pokestops and gym; some of these extra event POIs are created by Niantic and placed right next to each other (multiple POIs in the same S17 cell). This makes for an amazing game experience. Therefore, I am trying to make my local area slightly better only to hit some hurdles. I personally can’t see why PoGo and Ingress cannot share the same POI in game criteria, so they appear in both games regardless.
I personally can’t see why PoGo and Ingress cannot share the same POI in game criteria, so they appear in both games regardless.
Then that means... (A more prolific Agent may need to correct/expand on below):
If you continue to ꜱtrip down the mechanics to match Ingress you'll eventually reach...Ingress. The games are just too different to build a genuine comparison on how POI should appear.
Your amazing experience you mention? Those sometimes help for short events when it becomes critical to keep a fresh supply of items available, but for my own personal experience makes it much more difficult to actually select what I'm trying to on the map.
I do find it mildly irritating when I put forth effort on a POI that doesn't ingested into the game(s) I prefer, but usually if I'm putting that much effort into something I've learned more about my local (or regional) history and enjoyed the experience of discovery. Not a bad trade-off.
As stated in your acceptance email - Not every submission is used by all games and may or may not appear in your game of choice.
Game design decision, each Niantic game has their own dedicated team and each team decides how their gameboard selects which POI they use, some are more space requirement friendly, some are slightly less friendly.
Niantic don't want all their games to have identical gameboards, cause that would be boring.
Nia care less about their Gameboard than the community do. Their 4sq and basketball dump, farming out of appeals and reviews, indifference toward stop removals, lack of support to either the community or their own staff.
I could go on and on and on but this horse was dead a long time ago.
Thanks, as your reply actually made me feel better. I’m not too sure how, but it did. Maybe it because you hammer home a few truths. I will keep researching and submitting, hoping for the little wins. If I get POIs through in Ingress and/or PoGo as least someone benefits from them….
I agree wholeheartedly - when I do see a location edit, I always pick the point that's closer to the actual object or logical entrance to that object. I don't do this to make things better for Ingress players, or better for Pokemon Go players: I also don't use plug-ins showing cell lines so that I know I'm reviewing in an unbiased manner. It's not a war. I play both games and enjoy in-game objects as much as the next person, but my main goal in Pokemon is to catch the things in between the stops and gyms anyway.
I have met a few Ingress players who hold a grudge against the Pogo hoi polloi but they are very few and far between.
Most are pretty easy going about Wayfarer, S2 cells tbh.
The cell limits and sharing of the database can be frustrating for all sets of games but most people are just doing their own thing and not out to get me.
Not yet anyway....
@StuFerneli-PGO One thing to know is that reviewers can't move a pin just one meter... Wayfarer rejects it. Based on a quick experiment I think that the minimum move is three meters, but I could be wrong about that. It's also the case that it takes more than one reviewer to move a pin, although we don't know how many, and I believe the resulting location is a calculation based on all of the new pin recommendations. See the attached image where I tried to move a pin and Wayfarer told me it was too close. The original location is inset.
I play both Ingress and PoGo, and I played both Pikmin Bloom and Harry Potter Wizards Unite for a while. I want an accurate pin not because of the difference between a 40M and an 80M interaction radius (both are large enough that 3-5 meters doesn't make a difference), but because I want wayspots to be accurate.
Ad far as I can tell, when reviewing you aren't allowed to move it a couple of meters, whenever I try it doesn't let me select it, so you must be a bit further than a meter or 2. That being said, if you do what you do in your example, I wouldn't even bother moving it, a meter in from the door is still the poi
I rarely mess with the proposed pin location unless it is way off or clearly an attempt at gross abuse. For location edits, I normally pull out the s2 maps to see how it would impact the stops in order to help out when I can. Having a nomination accepted in the wrong location where it will never spawn is actually worse than having it rejected.
THIS RIGHT HERE is why all our pettiness over "accuracy" needs to stop. Niantic DOES NOT CARE about accuracy down to the level that we argue over. They use the philosophy "close is good enough" when they add stops from other sources or from sponsors. We have to stop caring more than they do.
@SeaprincessHNB-PGO Would you tell that to all the people who keep submitting location edits that are like 2-3 meters, please? Or edits where I have to choose between "1.5 Mile Marker" and "1.5 mile marker"?
As someone who's big fingers mess up the spelling of so much stuff and accidently put in a number or letter wrong, I'd love it if people stopped being so pernickety. Had an ncn marker rejected because my stupid fingers auto corrected 756 to 754 in the title and that was the main rejection reason (every time I open it up, it's that and other rejection, always the title/description at the top).
Agreed as well! As much as I long to get out a red pencil and correct spelling, grammatical, and even auto-correct errors, I wouldn't recommend rejecting any candidate because of those minor issues. Titles and descriptions can always be corrected with future edits, but no one can edit a wayspot that hasn't been accepted already. Submitters do the hard work of finding, typing up, and submitting these candidates - they should get a bit of credit for the effort expended.
As said by others, I don’t think it’s Ingress vs Pokémon GO. Realistically there aren’t enough Ingress players reviewing these days to make an impact.
There are people reviewing who look at your location being “slightly” off and move it, who have no idea about cells etc.
Thanks for this, as that has somewhat reassured me. As I was asking for a built in mechanic to stop reviewers moving the POI slightly…. And it seems it is already in the system, doh! I could swear about 3 of my accepted POIs have moved slightly though, when I open up Ingress, stand on the POI and think back to where I originally placed it. Either I made a mistake when originally placing it, or it must have been further away than I thought.
@PkmnTrainerJ-ING "Who have no idea about cells etc." To be fair, that's exactly the way we're supposed to submit and review. I don't really care if someone pays attention to cells to put something on the NW side of a playground rather than the SE side but I've reviewed a lot of stuff where it was painfully obvious that something was significantly misplaced to manipulate cells. That's not cool.
Agreed. That’s the way I do submit and review.
“oh, something interesting and eligible? Nominated”
I don’t have the time (or the inclination) for checking cells and moving things a few meters when nominating. I’ve seen some things very poorly (whether intentional or not) placed when reviewing and had to move those too.
I know I’ve messed up with locations in the past (pin on wrong side of road or much further than where I was stood) so I’m happy for others to correct and would expect the same.
Most Go players I know check cells. If I'm nominating 'Big Historic Statue' and position X on the left is perfectly acceptable and position Y on the right is perfectly acceptable, X appears in game, Y doesn't it would be daft of me to put the pin on on Y.
I’d imagine that’s due to most knowing fully about Wayfarer though. A casual GO player will not have any idea about it.
Most players even if casual are in some sort of chat Whatsapp, discord etc and know about it or quickly find out after their first submission.
That's my experience at least.
I actively tell people not to bother with Wayfarer if they're not going to try to understand cells since I'm usually dealing with GO players. A casual GO player is not interested in adding to Lightship, they want something they can interact with in their game. With a 12 month backlog for a natural to get approved in my area, it's literally not worth their time or effort to nominate blindly. They have to either know what they're doing or not bother at all. If they're out in a rural area where a natural can be processed in 5 weeks, have at it - learn by trial and error what things will appear and what won't. But this system is too broken to waste efforts on uneducated participation.
I know of one other person who submits to the same level as people on here do. Maybe 4 more who just want to add stops but once they reached 40 or however many they mostly stopped.
The 5-10 'casuals' who have submitted one thing gave up pretty quickly for various reasons, cells, wait time, their submission already existing and the various other bits of minutiae that can make Wayfarer a chore.
It would be nice if Go players and Ingress players would stop blaming each other and focus that frustration toward Niantic.
If I run a business that has 200 people come through the door each day and I can only engage one of them the onus is on me to fix it not the customers.
The onus is on Niantic to fix it not us.
Tempting :)
I do pay attention to it as I still want them to appear in at least 1 game. I know we arwnt supposed to, but on a few occasions I've submitted something at the corner of say, a building, rather than the main entrance because if I had done the main entrance, it would have been blocked from both games due to cell and another portal, but by still being on the poi but going to one corner, it was able to appear in pogo at least.
In before the abuse shouts, it's still on the poi, I'm not intentionally moving it off the poi, I'm just picking a placement that will at least benifit the current games (I choose to ignore future theoretical titles that might not ever come to fruition)