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Antrobus-PGO Posts: 8 ✭✭
edited June 2020 in [Archive] Guideline Clarifications
Are canal features such as locks and bridges allowed as wayspots? I’ve had two rejected for being natural waterways when Canals are man made.
The bridges I have been nominating have metal number plates on them too.
If there is an informational/educational signboard nearby, then the signboards would make excellent Wayspots. But for the locks and bridges themselves, you need to show evidence that they are classified as historical, such as a listed on the National Register of Historic Places or equivalent.
I would say that the locks would be eligible as you quite rightly said they are man made and and are very visually unique. As long as you are setting the Marker in the correct location.
As for the bridges I'd have to say they may not be unless part of a named Trail or the numbered plates have some historical or unique features. Having said that if the bridges are absolutely stunning works of art then yes they would be but without seeing examples I wouldn't like to give a definitive answer and I'm sure niantic would like to see an example as well.
Hope that helps even just a little maybe post what you are submitting here.
What are the metal number plates? Would you be comfortable sharing some of the examples you have had rejected?
Just because something is man-made and supports a natural feature doesn't mean it's inherently eligible more than generic infrastructure. (Not that I'm defending "natural feature" rejection - that sounds wrong.)
Either objects you mention could be eligible and could be ineligible, but it will depend on the actual feature submitted and the overall nomination itself.
I just found the rejection odd as many other bridges on canals have been accepted.
And for the metal plates. Each bridge has its own number. I deliberately missed a rail way bridge as it was rather generic and this one for example is around 150 years old.
Before seeing the photo I was kinda "meh"-- but now seeing the picture, it looks more interesting than a regular old generic bridge. I could be swayed to accept something like that, but I can see how it might be hard to get it approved.
The locks in Glasgow were all accepted and either already in game or added later, I would assume they used the importance if them and the rest of engineering was required at the time
There's a very good chance that a canal structure will be listed by Historic England (or your countries heritage body) for it's historical significance which should improve chances with reviewers.
I just had a canal lock come up in a remote place. This discussion was helpful in rating it but classifying it was harder as it was one of those that came up with several options, meaning I couldn't skip the classification button. In the end I opted for 'sign' as the lock had an identification number plate. But like stink pipes it doesn't really fit anywhere. Utility box? I wish there was an option for object>historical or something like that.
Having been on many a canal; holiday in the last 30+ years the numbers on the bridges are navigation aids and could well be considered as Trailmarkers.
I'd much rather see canal architecture that the mass produced and banal footpath markers that seem to be accepted without question. Here in Essex you can't move for "St Peter's Way" footpath markers.
In my neck of the woods, there are a few "former" canals. Boring to y'all maybe, but the locals are quite proud of them and their importance to our local history. I'll be somewhat generic in my descriptions, but if you want more specifics I'll be happy to PM more details (if you can figure out how to do that, ie. send me your Telegram/Discord/Reddit handle lol). (I also ask that, if you're curious enough to discover the location yourself, you follow my lead and only talk about it "generically" too, even though I'm definitely giving away enough info here for you to find them. I have good reasons for this attempt at pseudo-privacy, you can ask @AgentB0ssING-PGO all about it if need be, umm lol.)
Canals One through Three are now retired, with Canal Four still running live. When Canal Two was built, most of its construction was just a widening/deepening of Canal One, but a slightly more direct route up a steeper hill was cut, and that section of One was buried. Canal Three was basically dug in a straight line through (what is now) the city, leaving the remnants of Two mostly in place. Number Four moved the canal's mouth to an entirely new spot, and the parts of Three going through the city were buried.
Most of the active Canal Four are not wayspots, nor really should they be. They're "just" active industrial infrastructure, moving ships carrying cargo through. But along much of its path are shared-use walking/biking/running trails, a couple of tourist-ish viewing platforms, and the like. THOSE generally have signs or maps or things of that nature, and are wayspots. Artificial or not, it's still a nice and pleasant spot to wander along the waterway.
But the older Canals, they're essentially "historic ruins", and we've (mostly) successfully gotten those through as wayspots. There's not a lot of One left, but a single plaque in that aforementioned buried section where some archaeologists dug up a Lock to examine it is a wayspot. Most of the path of Two is traced by a fairly lengthy walking trail, and those trail markers are now all wayspots, AND they are now also a series of six Ingress missions (plus a bonus one-off mission).
For Two, it just so happens that SOME of its former Flight Locks are still visible + accessible. Some you can literally walk into, and when you're there you'll see the obligatory spraypaint. Some just have pedestrian bridges over them leading to the walking trail. And some are just fenced off away not 20 feet away from the trail, but you'll only know they're there if you have a map. If you look at those Locks with an uneducated eye, it just looks like a pair of limestone-brick walls straddling a creek. But! they're the "architectural ruins" of our local history. Those accessible Locks have been accepted as wayspots, but we didn't try to submit the non-visible ones. (Nor did we submit a few that did wend their way through a public park, where their only accessible signage were Disc Golf tees.)
And then there's Three. Its remaining remnants are JUST as valid as One's and Two's, but there are far fewer of them. Of what's been accepted (both pre-OPR and post-Wayfarer), there's a plaque at its beginning at its First Lock. Its (buried) path traced through what is now a public park, with a second plaque. Across the road from the park, one of the Locks is partially unburied with a third plaque. Farther along are the remnants of a railroad bridge, left in place in another park, and those are a wayspot. (If you didn't know their history, the remaining structure only looks like two weird piles of large stone bricks.) And finally, the (signless) remains of a Lock is accessible via a barely-maintained-but-very-real walking path.
Besides those, there are very few other bits of Three that could be submitted -- most of which happen to be on Federal land. I personally couldn't get there without trespassing, but "technically" somebody who WAS there could submit those former Locks, Tunnels, etc and/or access any resulting wayspots.
But the one spot that's still bugging me? There is the remains of a Lock in a public park. You can walk directly up to it and touch its outer wall unimpeded. I can sit on it without trespassing. It's safe to be there. It's MY HISTORY. But over and over, Wayfarer keeps rejecting that one spot. Yes, it's kinda ugly. Yes, it's "just" stone bricks surrounding a bit of water. Yes, you personally have no idea how much history this thing has. But, sigh, its repeated rejections are annoying me.
tl;dr: a currently-working canal isn't particularly valid as a wayspot, any more than would be other transportation infrastructure. But being a waterway, there are often trails/signs/etc along its path that can be submitted. A now-unused "former" canal will often have "historic remnants" "architectural ruins" and/or have many things along their path that can be submitted. Local archaeologists LOVE this stuff.