Live in Wayfarer 3.1 is a new set of acceptance criteria! Please browse the information in this category with caution as it is in reference to the previous review guidelines. To learn more about the new criteria, see here:

Painted Fire Hydrants



  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Personally I do agree with Casey that its blocking emergency services, but I ddint think being in a car should ever be a consideration, it's never a consideration when placing a way spot, so it ahouldnt be a consideration when it comes to rejecting ro accepting something, mostly because your really shoukdnt be playing while driving (totally stick to that rule myself, never see me driving while playing pogo and ingress at the same time 👀)

  • tehstone-INGtehstone-ING Posts: 1,063 Ambassador

    How about the fire call boxes in New York that are all exactly the same, no artistic or historic merit whatsoever but still keep getting approved for some reason?

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticCasey-ING Allow me to put forth some arguments:

    First, the frequency of use. A fire station driveway is very likely used many times per day, and unpredictably. Any particular fire hydrant is only likely to be used once every few years if that-- I haven't been able to find data, but I wouldn't be surprised if fewer than half of fire hydrants were ever used to put out a fire during their lifetimes. Also, if you're playing a game at a fire hydrant that needs to be used you very likely are standing near a burning building and you should get out of there anyway. In the unlikely event that you haven't figured it out, the fire truck is going to pull up and the men and women in uniform will make you hightail it away immediately. It will probably involve a loud siren and a very forceful comment from a loudspeaker.

    Second, if artistically painted fire hydrants are unsafe waypoints then so is the historic plaque three meters away and the sculpture ten meters away. In fact, any waypoint that is within action range of a fire hydrant would become an invalid waypoint. Reviewers would have to examine every single submission during the Wayfarer review process to look for a fire hydrant within 40M of it. Many if not most would have to be rejected based on this criterion, and this is especially true in urban areas.

    I live in a moderately dense urban area. A few weeks ago when this was being discussed elsewhere I tried an experiment. I marked off an area around my neighborhood and then used street view plus walking the neighborhood myself to identify every fire hydrant I could find within the area. I then went to the intel map and drew 40M circles around each of them. The result was not good. Over 70% of the POI in the area would be invalid. The list of things to be removed is nine pieces of art, eight historical plaques, two fountains, two pieces of unique architecture. I repeated the experiment in downtown Palo Alto California and got similar results-- in the area that I chose about 2/3 of the waypoints would have to be removed. I believe that declaring fire hydrants as emergency services would decimate your games.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anything (and literally, anything), anywhere could be required for use of emergency services. Whether it would be:

    • Rescuing a cat near a tree that has a plaque on it
    • Police presence at a historical bank during a heist
    • Maintenance work being completed by technicians at a painted traffic control or power box
    • Maintenance also being conducted on painted telegraph/utility poles
    • A mural on a burning building, or even
    • Phenomenal artworks on water towers

    A painted fire hydrant follows the similar pattern of having a very infrequent, situational use. Sure, people don't gather around a fire hydrant, let alone a painted box, but at the same time you don't see people actually standing right at the object's location. Is it considered to obstruct emergency services if it's on the way or path of travel of such vehicles?

    If it needs to be used, then players should have some basic common sense to move along. Because I'm sure as hell people do not want to be playing near a fire hydrant adjacent to a building that's on fire. Extremely situational. A painted power pole becomes dangerous during a hurricane/cyclone when it gets knocked down. A traffic control box becomes a risk when technicians perform maintenance on it, so they install a yellow modular railing around it while they work.

    That being said, almost all the fire hydrants in my local area are plates embedded on the ground, and traditional valves have been decommissioned and removed.

  • tehstone-INGtehstone-ING Posts: 1,063 Ambassador

    Because any location could potentially cause impairment and because in some cases the only new art in the area is painted on hydrants.

  • tehstone-INGtehstone-ING Posts: 1,063 Ambassador
    edited June 2020

    Yes, good job finding the one photo everyone uses to argue this. And that car is parked illegally regardless of any game. Frequency absolutely matters, and as I've pointed out many times EMS response is in no way limited to the locations of this equipment. If you're so dead set on making sure that their operations are interfered with then literally any public place should be off limits.

    I understand that Niantic can't just say they're ok, because inevitably there will be a news story about a Pokemon go player blocking a hydrant and it will be a big deal. But the overwhelming majority of players can and will be reasonable about this and it's the kind of thing that would have been ok to leave unanswered. Unfortunately people kept pestering about it and here we are.

    Post edited by tehstone-ING on
  • tehstone-INGtehstone-ING Posts: 1,063 Ambassador

    There's already a distinction.

    Nominations whose real-world location appears to obstruct the driveways of emergency services

    Note the word "driveway." That's a reasonable distinction, anything near a fire station is probably not acceptable. Random locations on streets all over? Totally different.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,423 Ambassador

    Where in the guidelines does it say I should consider whether or not a Wayspot that is accessible by foot would encourage a car to be parked illegally?

  • SoulKing95-PGOSoulKing95-PGO Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    While I do make statement like this, I also agree that if those equipment do make as waypoints, it possibly wouldn't interfere emergency situation at all! Player can stand 40m away from the equipment and not even interfering or obstructing.

    BUT, if Casey said such equipment are eligible, it will drag down the standard of waypoints. People will nominate all Emergency equipments as Wayspot. The good point we know where the emergency equipment. The down side if we are playing in big groups, we could potentially obstruct the driveway in emergency (which RARELY happen). And there'll be fire hydrants everywhere, "mass produced" object, etc etc..

    I do like and find painted one from @tehstone-ING are appealing. Personally, if I know that hydrant didn't serves as emergency equipment (retired, not functional, serves ONLY as decoration) and visually appealing, I probably would nominate one too. But better be safe than sorry. We didn't want to hear another lawsuit because Niantic game caused another ruckus.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 3,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SoulKing95-PGO I disagree that people will submit lots of different emergency services. We're not talking about whether fire hydrants should qualify as waypoints-- clearly fire hydrants shouldn't. We're talking about whether art that is painted on fire hydrants should be DISqualified. The point of these submissions is the art, and it just happens to be painted on fire hydrants.

  • arcaicways-PGOarcaicways-PGO Posts: 95 ✭✭✭

    and what ever we think doesnt matter as it has been said by an official niantic source that if it is a fire hydrant it doesn't matter if it is painted or not it does not meet criteria

  • SoulKing95-PGOSoulKing95-PGO Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    There are priority criteria in rejection above the acceptance. Imo, those top priority that we need to 100% reject are:

    • Inside or attached to or part of PRP
    • Potentially Obstructing Emergency Services (let's not debate on this since I'm arguing about rejection vs acceptance)
    • School Ground (K-12 or similar)
    • Military Bases
    • No safe pedestrian access (might differ in each country, let say Wayspot in a Toll-Free Road or High Way with no foot accessible bridge)

    While some acceptance criteria could "raise" the eligibility of an object since they didn't qualify by themselves such as:

    • Historic or Cultural aspect
    • Unique Architecture or Visually Appealing
    • Hidden Gem or Hyper Local Spot

    Based on those, rejection criteria should override all the acceptance criteria. We are not to accept statue inside a PRP, or in front of Hospital entrance.

    Painted fire hydrants met both acceptance (visually appealing) and rejection criteria ("potentially obstructing" emergency services), which should cancel out, or the rejection would override the acceptance criteria.

    I kinda conflicted myself, but I guess this is most logical explanation why it wouldn't qualify as Wayspot. Should Casey clarify once more? 🤔

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That picture I would accept, but mostly because you have said its disconnected and discontinued

  • PoMaQue-PGOPoMaQue-PGO Posts: 252 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020

    None of the examples you gave are tools to be used by emergency services, fire hydrants are. So it does not hold up.

    With this logic, I could state that Single Family Residences and everything in their front yard should also be eligible, because the residents are not there 100% all the time?

  • Gazzas89-PGOGazzas89-PGO Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Actually, a statue would be allowed outside a hospital entrance, its if it blocked the ambulance areas

  • ZeldaVV-PGOZeldaVV-PGO Posts: 31 ✭✭✭

    Please add this to the next clarification post. I've seen many painted fire hydrants, people are going out and painting them themselves and could possibly be making the hydrant inoperable if they paint the joints.

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,204 Ambassador

    Should we stop accepting murals because people are making them to get pokestops? LFL because people are installing them without the cities permission? Stop car accessible POI's because people are driving and playing? Vandalism is against the law and its not Niantics responsibility or fault.

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