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Location or Object Descriptors in Title

All across Wayfarer I have seen countless edits to what seems to be a new sort of trend and that's putting the street name location to a sign. For example:

  • ELS Hall Park to ELS Hall Park (Scott Street Entry)
  • Windsor Downs Nature Reserve to Windsor Downs NR (Sanctuary Drive Entry)
  • Scheyville National Park to Scheyville National Park Old Pitt Down Road gate
  • Gannons Park to Jindabyne Crescent enterance at Gannons Park
  • Lambert Reserve to Lambert Reserve sign
  • Sad bird to Sad Bird Mural

I was fine with including a sort of directive description to the title (i.e. ELS Hall Park East) but now I feel these which don't even have any other entrances in the first place are just fluff and unnecessary now. For example, someone locally has been editing the word "Sign" into every single Park or "Mural" in an artwork that is already officially correct that doesn't even have it in the first place, and like we already know what it is, it doesn't have to be there.

I feel it's perfectly normal having just the park name as the wayspot's title. None of this sign or 'Street Entrance' thing, we should be using just the official name of the place and there shouldn't be any extra comments in the title. Only if it really is necessary to include the additional descriptor to help distinguish it from something else nearby to avoid being marked as a duplicate.

I don't know. I'm all for making things as concise and accurate as possible, but this trend is not really healthy. What's the consensus?

Best Answer

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Answers

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree with the above. Conversely, it seems as if the word 'mural' is a fine line between having someone rejecting something for a generic business and being accepted. Buzzwords, as I like to say. If the Wayspot to an entry sign actually shows a distinct numbering or in fact the actual street, I'd be happy to include it. 'Sign' definitely is just fluff.

  • rangersbc72-PGOrangersbc72-PGO Posts: 62 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020

    My opinion on naming conventions like the noted ones would be to use a directionality word (North, South, East, West) etc instead of street names. Theres a compass in game, but no named streets. Let people actually use the compass to navigate!

  • Dazzz123456-PGODazzz123456-PGO Posts: 301 ✭✭✭

    Going back to what was originally said in the opening question I have heard of people today using the new drone function to edit names of exciting portals now if that is not an abuse of the system I don't know what is. It fills up the system for no reason for pointless edits and the same people in a few weeks will be complaining that there nominations haven't come back and its exactly the type of title edits you was talking about they was doing.

  • TheBwad-PGOTheBwad-PGO Posts: 29 ✭✭✭

    Generally, I think the directional additions or street names have been employed by people looking to get multiple but valid waypoints that represent a similar / same area or location. This was done I think mostly in good faith as a way of holding reviewers hands in order to not waste everyone's time with unnecessary duplicates and to accurately differentiate separate POIs. That's fine.

    What we have seen since is people looking to exploit this by bluffing through the same POI and placing it at a different location occasionally but also and secondly, it has created micro-chasms and echo chambers in areas, for submitters looking to replicate the existing, successful formula of their local areas or ones they have visited. I know when I started submitting and was far less informed about the intricacies and nuances of valid nominations and the system, I used already existing waypoints to guide me on what would get through. This can lead to uses of terms and templates in areas to create waypoints. **** see, **** do. People might think these names and templates are they way to go, even when they might not be necessary. Just my 2c.

  • oscarc1-INGoscarc1-ING Posts: 366 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would disagree with this sentiment. I've sent my drone off to various locations and I found a whole suburb of portals that had extremely poor spelling and grammar. So I spent a little bit of time to fixing it all up as it will improve how those wayspots are represented. Obviously the original submitter didn't have the competence to submit text correctly, nor did they or anybody else bother to fix the wayspots after they went live. It's just a small quality of life improvement and is not 'abuse of the system'.

    Adding to your first sentence, I know in the past that those additional descriptors were added in some cases because having keys to twenty different "Dandenong Creek Trail" portals makes it extremely confusing to know which one is which. So there is a beneficial use for them in that sense. Although generally I do see the edits being in alignment with the rest of your comment.

  • Dazzz123456-PGODazzz123456-PGO Posts: 301 ✭✭✭

    I'm not sure how you dont think it's not an abuse of the system. Isnt it something like 50 edits in ingress? That's 50 minor changes you are doing every 2 weeks you are slowing down nominations and regular edits. If you really cared that much you would have done those on foot but you wouldn't do that as potentially finding 50 will take alot longer to walk too.

    if they got into games does it really matter a few mistakes. Who really cares about grammar in a game that you have to destroy, link, spin stops, catch and make spells anyway? Why not get out and actually play the games instead of waisting reviewers time with such minor things.

  • Dazzz123456-PGODazzz123456-PGO Posts: 301 ✭✭✭

    Using a drone to edit is abuse. It's hardly going to make a difference if there is a comer or capital letter not in the title and discription as the person who was doing the drone edits was changing. It is filling up the system with pointless edits

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020

    Perhaps you are better off asking Niantic to disable the remote edit feature in Ingress (whether it be through the in-game drone or using portal keys). But so long as it exists through the client, using it to fix errors is not abuse. And no, corrective edits are not pointless nor do they clog up the system.

  • Dazzz123456-PGODazzz123456-PGO Posts: 301 ✭✭✭

    How do you figure that out how is it changing lives? If everyone did this the system would be in meltdown as no edits would get in for 7or 8 months and that's all we would be reviewing.

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If Niantic wanted to present their product to say, a town, and then they realise that their entire locality is riddled with spelling mistakes and lack of title case, it would be humiliating to them.

    There is a help guide on the Niantic Wayfarer Help page for Reviewing a Suggested Wayspot Edit:

    When reviewing title Edits, you’ll be presented with a list of titles from which to choose. Accept the most suitable title for the Wayspot based on the criteria below:

    Accept:

    - Official titles

    - Titles with correct spelling/capitalization/grammar

    - Creative titles (as long as they add value to the Wayspot)

    - Titles that include the artist’s name (for murals, statues, etc.)

    There are also Guidelines for Portal titles and descriptions:

    While titles and descriptions may be submitted in any language, the official local language is preferred.

    Wherever possible, provide us with the official title. Where there is no official title for the Portal (i.e., fountains and statues without names), we welcome creative titles to distinguish the candidate Portal from other similar Portals

    For descriptions, please include detailed information that other players might find interesting about the Portal; for example, interesting facts about the art or building, historical significance, etc. You can also use the description to tell why the Portal is unique, historical, or significant.

    Please do not include real names, codenames, faction, or group names in titles and descriptions.

    Please do not include HTML and/or URLs in Portal titles and descriptions.

    Please keep our Terms of Service in mind when providing descriptions.

    Having the 56 edits are virtually the same as having the nominations, it's either you use them or you don't. For the most part, reviewing these edits when they are presented to you in Wayfarer was blaringly simple: having parts of the title capitalised or spelling mistakes corrected. They don't hurt, just review them, choose the best option and move along.

    Edits aren't the thing that is being prioritised. There was a short time period in early-to-mid April when literally every second review was an edit. But edits came back complete and approved in droves. Location edits where the existing spot was in the middle of the road or in the incorrect area. The smallest spelling mistakes. The official title of artworks, murals and sculptures. Changes in the description where for example, the description of "Campbell Park Playground" was literally just "Playground".

    Niantic appreciates the enrichment of their database, and supports the means to nurture it. Not everyone has to use their fortnightly edits. Not everyone is obligated to review. But being excessively against remote/drone edits when the conversation was about Title conventions is a waste of energy.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where did Niantic say that edits must "change lives"? Where does Niantic say that submitting edits to fixing errors in titles and descriptions shouldn't be done? Why is reviewing those edits even a problem? All you basically said is that YOU don't want to review edits.

  • Dazzz123456-PGODazzz123456-PGO Posts: 301 ✭✭✭

    No I dont mid reviewing edits at all but when I hear of people foing 50+edits that they would never normally do because they wont get up and walk to the actual place that is an abuse of the system. If everyone who can drone did all there title edits what do you think will happen? That's all we will be reviewing again and people who are being pedantic having a capital letter will grind the system to a hult again. I wouldn't have a problem if they actually went and found 56 on foot but there not there being lazy.

  • rangersbc72-PGOrangersbc72-PGO Posts: 62 ✭✭✭

    This "droning" is again, an example of a privilege (like 2x the nominations) provided to Ingress players but absent in PoGo.

    Niantic needs players to do these sorts of QA/QC edits. A database chalk full of generic descriptions and misnamed objects is worth a fraction of the value of its potential, which perhaps is this company's greatest asset.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Using a feature for its intended purpose is not abuse. If using the feature encourages more people to submit corrective edits, then I can't see that as anything other than a net positive. And I see no issue if the majority of reviews are edits. They are much easier to review and it is better to have them processed quickly to avoid multiple instances of the same edit entering the system. In fact, I think edits should be prioritized over nominations for that very reason.

  • NorthSeaPoet-INGNorthSeaPoet-ING Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not sure how it's abuse if they're improving the title or description, or in the case of some wayspots, adding a description.

    Abuse would be more if they're falsifying the location and then using the description edits to instruct reviewers where the editor wants it.

  • rangersbc72-PGOrangersbc72-PGO Posts: 62 ✭✭✭

    Is submitting edits to standardize naming conventions considered abusive by these guidelines?

    For example, consider a trail dedicated to Bob Jones.

    Bob's Trail --> Bob Jones Memorial Trail -- North Entrance

    Bob Jones South Trail Entrance --> Bob Jones Memorial Trail -- South Entrance

  • Dazzz123456-PGODazzz123456-PGO Posts: 301 ✭✭✭

    Its people being pedantic. It doesn't benefit the system at all I think people are taking a touch to seriously when they say it improves the game.

    Who is it helping? Niantic.

    If 50plus edits went in by each person reviewing would become extremely boring.

    Someone doing capital letters at the beginning of each word is certainly not something niantic has stated that has to happen.

    Its abuse because people wont get off there a**e on a normal day to do 50 plus edits but sitting at home with nothing better to do doesn't benefit anyone just gives them something to brag about in there telegram group

  • rangersbc72-PGOrangersbc72-PGO Posts: 62 ✭✭✭

    As a PoGo player, I'd love to sit on my *** and submit, but I dont have the functionality to do so!

    I agree, if and only if people are submitting nonsensical edits for the sake of submitting something with no rhyme nor reason, that's abuse. But I will disagree that correcting grammar, doing legit, citable, QA/QC or applying naming conventions is abuse. Am I doing QA/QC now? Absolutely. Will I submit 50 edits every fortnight, absolutely not! It's a lot of work, and I'm doing it out of respect to the site of interest. I have better things to do than go on a Pro Bono crusade to fix a messy dataset for a company.

    This is why I'm a proponent of comments and citations. An abuser would struggle to justify an edit. Nearly every edit I submitted I could have had a linked source. There needs to be a mechanism to weed-out the BS.

  • oscarc1-INGoscarc1-ING Posts: 366 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't know where you get the idea for all those assumptions, but it's simply not true.

    From my experience, most players don't do edits, only a small amount do, and that small amount would generally only do a small amount of edits when they come across something that they think should be fixed or updated with more or better information. Sure, we may have 50 edits, but how many do people actually use? I probably do more edits than most people and that's generally up to 10 edits if I'm going out for a trip somewhere, most weeks there would be zero edits. I get around to a lot of places, on foot, by car, by boat and plane just for Ingress, using a drone is no different to having a key or seeing the portal pop-up on comms and submitting an edit from that.

    Edits don't clog the system, they are the quickest and easiest agreements to make as it takes less time to assess a title or description edit than it does to assess a non-eligible nomination.

    Also, a large part of Ingress is the exploration aspect, people love to explore using Ingress and so they would read the descriptions of portals to learn more about the point of interest. Missions are also a core part of Ingress and can rely on the descriptions for extra information (especially in the case of missions that require a passphrase). In PoGo it matters less as the POI's don't have as much value and the focus of the game is on the Pokemon themselves and not the POI's.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong about proper spelling, captalisation, grammar, etc. However, it is off-putting seeing poor spelling, grammar, capitalisation, etc. You don't have to care about it or like it, but for the people that actually care about the game and enjoy exploring, these things matter and no doubt Niantic would be grateful for the effort taken to ensure things are correct and accurate.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Then you're saying that Ingress agents using the built-in drone system to play remotely is abuse since they don't have to "get off [their] a**e" while playing. Your complaint is more to do with the drone feature itself rather than actual abuse.

  • NorthSeaPoet-INGNorthSeaPoet-ING Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thinking about it, using the drone to edit portals is literally no difference to using keys to edit portals. Both are remote, but neither is abuse, since they're legitimate parts of the game.

  • Dazzz123456-PGODazzz123456-PGO Posts: 301 ✭✭✭

    I'm making no assumptions I've seen it written in telegram group for the uk some of the people are using the drone to fly about as they have nothing better to do editing titles by put a capital letter at the beginning of each word. That to me is pointless and unnecessary.

    There is absolutely a difference between having a key and using the drone to do this. A key you are limited to the few portals around that keyed one and means you have actually been there. Not having the key and just randomly clicking on portals to check is pointless. Tell me where it says in the guidelines that every word needs to start with a capital letter? As I said if everyone did this reviewing would become full of pointless edits slowing normal reviews down.

  • NorthSeaPoet-INGNorthSeaPoet-ING Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    More negativity about telegram groups? Yawn. Change the record. We get it. You don't like anyone in the telegram groups and you keep falling out with them because they won't tolerate you being aggressive and argumentative all the time.

    There is no difference between drone and keys for editing portals - both are remote, and both limit you to what portals you can see in the area. The only difference is that the drone can at least be used to move to a different area.

    I don't see the issue with correcting the grammar or spelling in titles and descriptions. It would be abuse if people were deliberately putting in wrong information or using the description edits to instruct reviewers which location they should choose when reviewing a location edit.

    You're basically just trying to brew up a storm in a tea cup here over a non-issue.

  • NorthSeaPoet-INGNorthSeaPoet-ING Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anyway, if edits were abuse of the system, NIA wouldn't have even made the edit function available to us.

  • YouLostAStar-INGYouLostAStar-ING Posts: 280 ✭✭✭✭✭

    stop making things up, if you want to start an accusation then provide proof. In the Telegram group we have said many times that it’s a waste of people’s time to put an edit in for a minor capital letter change or full stop.

    my opinion on edits is if a capital letter or punctuation is bothering someone that much they need to make it a “meaningful edit” so do some research and write a more detailed description while fixing the typo/punctuation as they go. I can’t stand pointless small edits and most definitely wouldn’t let anyone brag about doing it in any of the chats I’m in

  • Dazzz123456-PGODazzz123456-PGO Posts: 301 ✭✭✭

    Not sure you ha e said that I suggest you looking back in your chat a few days.

    And again the difference is if you have the key you have been to the location already doing it by drone doesn't.

  • NorthSeaPoet-INGNorthSeaPoet-ING Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can do edits through comms as well. I could set it so that I see activity upto 1000km away from where I am and put in edits for portals that I've never been to before. It doesn't mean it's abuse of the system.

    Also, keys don't always mean you've been to that portal. Ingress players share keys at events. I have keys for the coast of Holland because someone gave me them at a First Saturday, so I can attempt to make some BAFs at some point. I could put edits in for those portals without actually visiting them.

    The point is that if NIA didn't want remote edits being a thing because of this alleged abuse you keep mentioning, then they wouldn't have made it remote edits a feature in the first place.

  • Dazzz123456-PGODazzz123456-PGO Posts: 301 ✭✭✭

    So would I be right to assume it is you are someone who does this? Or are you defending a group member? Well at least we know why things take so long now to get edited and approved.

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