Live in Wayfarer 3.1 is a new set of acceptance criteria! Please browse the information in this category with caution as it is in reference to the previous review guidelines. To learn more about the new criteria, see here: https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/wayfarer/
Same logic applies to _pedestrians_ standing in front of a garage door of a fire station. Still doesn't mean the mural on the garage door is eligible.
Considering there are people who refuse to wear a face mask when it has been mandated for an entire state, yes, there will always be morons who don’t adhere to emergency requests.
This is lunacy. Many of my bus stops growing up we’re at a corner with a fire hydrant. It’s such a concern that the school made us congregate around it. There is no common sense. No one is standing on top of a fire hydrant that is a portal. They’d be in the general area, and it’s totally unrealistic to expect they won’t move when the fire truck comes pulling up. The car is a different story, because it can be left unattended and can’t instantly move. That’s why blocking one with a car is illegal. I’ve seen a painted hydrant on the middle of a busy park. If ems was concerned about having a bunch of people around the hydrant, they wouldn’t put it there, or they would block it off. The reality is that EMS has zero concern about people congregating around a fire hydrant, so why should Niantic?
Exactly this. I spent some time last night looking at streetview where each of the 40+ painted hydrants in my neighborhood are. They're in front of businesses, right next to crosswalks & driveways, in parks, in front of the walkway from the street to homes, etc etc. These aren't meant to be off limits locations other than the restriction against parking cars in front of them (which incidentally happens a lot around here regardless of how the hydrants are painted and for some reason isn't enforced).
Are people still arguing over this? I bet most of you are from the global Facebook group.
Look, you all wanted answers on the fire hydrants, Casey has spoken and said they're a big NO. So, rather than constantly bickering about it, just accept the new ruling and move on.
I dont stand in front of a garage door because i expect that garage door to open any minute, i dont expect a fire to spruce up any minute.
I think thats a big jump from a virus that people refuse to believe in and a fire thats going to cause noise, smell, heat and chaos. All of which make people run away or run to, to help. not stand dumbly at a fire hydrant finishing a raid or spinning a pokestop.
@NorthSeaPoet-ING I honestly don’t care one way or another about painted fire hydrants. The ridiculous part, to me, is how people interpret rules in a way that makes no practical sense. People accepting rules that make no practical sense is what creates bad systems, whether it be government, organizational, or for a game. Being concerned with the letter of the law, with no concern for what actually makes sense is just a bad way to go about things, in my opinion.
There is always plenty of warning before the doors open and the vehicle leaves. There is an alarm that sounds out to let all passersby know that they need to clear out of the way. It is also SOP for a firefighter to clear the driveway of any pedestrians and stop traffic on the road before the truck(s) pull out of the garage. And once the truck(s) leaves, pedestrians are allowed to stand in front of the garage door again. It is no more or less of a problem than them "shewing" way pedestrians standing next to a hydrant as they attach a hose to it. Once the hose is attached, pedestrians can stand next to the hydrant again. But because both are part of the emergency response infrastructure, Niantic has said that they are both ineligible. They just simply clarified that hydrants are included.
What the heck does a Facebook group have to do with this? Get your facebook hate out of here.
Because most of the ones that are arguing for fire hydrants being allowed are also the same people that say they 5* everything in the global group, so not hard to make that connection.
It's not facebook hate when the admins of that facebook group are literally telling members to ignore the new guidance on the fire hydrants as well as instructing them to come here and argue against what NIA have said.
End of the day, NIA have said no to painted fire hydrants, so why not just accept the answer instead of arguing against it?
For the same reason that the membership does all of their argument over there instead of over here where they can either:
I don't partake much in that FB group's conversations, except to occasionally ping Niantic when I happen to notice things getting out of hand.
I'm not on Facebook at all, and I always encourage people to follow the guidelines (even some of the people in this thread disagreeing with me about this issue would back me up on this). But I don't think that this is a reasonable clarification of the guidelines or a reasonable view of reality. So I'm going to continue to argue it.
Because we don't want a hasty guideline clarification that gets blown out of proportion.
Whether or not the two were related, there were people pushing for the eligibility of a mural painted on the side of a house; Niantic Support chimed in adding nominations must be 40 meters away from private residential property, and the next day that was published. That "clarification" is still getting asked about and causing passionate debate.
As has been noted above, proximity will be a concern. If the clarification gets published stating "Fire hydrants count as emergency services," that will cause more clarification requests about things located adjacent to hydrants.
I think the point many people are trying to make, at this point, is for the team to be careful and clear as to what the expectations are. Something like "Nominations OF fire hydrants, decorated or otherwise, are considered ineligible; a nomination for something nearby a hydrant, regardless of proximity, is still eligible" would be very clear.
I am part of that Facebook, but I dont encourage or condone 5*ing everything, I review based on guidelines and criteria. To me it makes no sense that I could sit on a fire hydrant and enjoy a mural 3 feet away, but I can't lean on a wall and enjoy the same fire hydrant I was just sitting on.
I'm arguing for fire hydrants and have never said to 5* everything (in fact i have been muted in that group in the past for arguing based on criteria), I review based on criteria and merits, I'm being very vocal even though I have 0 fire hydrants to submit because I have reviewed and accepted several that i feel 100% deserve to be POI's. It doesnt make sense to me that i can sit on a fire hydrant and admire a mural 3 ft away, but I cant lean on the wall and admire the same my hydrant i was just sitting on.
I'm part of that Facebook group. Hell, I got roped into being one of the moderators. I'm also one of the people arguing for thoughtful reviewing, lobbying Niantic to consolidate their guidelines into a form that is easily consumable by both reviewers and submitters, and helping to educate people. I've even compiled an extensive list of links to places where Niantic has made official decrees.
As a moderator mostly I'm kicking out spammers, verifying members, and nuking the occasional abusive comment.
Right now what I'm doing is lobbying Niantic for both clarity and logical consistency. I think that this is a very silly restriction, though it's easy to see how the lawyers would come down on this side of it. My partner is an attorney, so I can pretty much hear the meeting right now. It seems completely illogical to me that art painted on a fire hydrant would be unsafe while art painted on a bus shelter three feet away would be safe. It is nonsensical and absurd that I could touch two items at the same time and one of them is safe but the other isn't.
Having said that, if Niantic doesn't change their mind on it then I will absolutely follow the ruling and educate other people about it, while at the same time rolling my eyes at capricious and illogical rules.
I'm sorry, but the arguments you bring make no sense.
First you compared fire hydrants to trees etc, but one is a tool for emergency services, all the rest are not.
Now, you are saying they should be approved, just because you have never seen them being used?
I've never seen a fire truck rush out of their garage, so I can nominate the garage and everyone should approve it? Same for Lifeguard Towers and all things like this.
Several people have been saying "surely people will move out of the way". If there is 1 thing the COVID-19 situation has proven, is that people in groups and masses can become oblivious to anything not related to them. Whether it's having lockdown parties, protests etc without taking any of the safety precautions because "It's a free country" or worse (cases which have been seen in all countries around the world) or just your standard Disaster Tourists taking selfies and filming buildings being burnt down, crowds can be very dumb.
In any fire, you're always instructed to stand at a point that is a reasonable distance from the fire, and by the sounds of it, in that instance, the fire hydrant was a reasonable distance from the fire.
They wouldn't tell you to gather by it if it was say 5 feet from the burning building as a precaution, so it definitely sounds like in that one instance that the hydrant was a safe and reasonable distance from a fire.
In other situations, there is still the possibility of people obstructing a fire hydrant that needs to be used, so NIA are covering their backs.
Oh! I found the perfect example of this literally outside my front door. I live in a historic district, and many of the buildings have plaques talking about the history of the building... mine included. Imagine that the fire hydrant was painted to look like a dalmatian. How does it make sense that one of these is safe and the other isn't, when they are two feet apart?
@Hosette-ING I appreciate you blocking it out to keep from doxing yourself. For the sake of clarity, that's a educational history plaque for a historical building that you're encouraged to stand in front of for some amount of time and read, correct?
Simple, one is part of the emergency response infrastructure, the other is not.
Well, that's easy to answer.
The item to the left is an education information board and is meant to be read by the public. The item to the right is part of infrastructure used by emergency services.
Since NIA haven't said that anything within a set radius of hydrants are ineligible as well, one would assume that those objects would still be valid.
@Gendgi-PGO Yes, you are encouraged to stand in front of it and read it-- there's a rather wordy chunk of text under that bar. It lists the designer of the building, the architectural style, the construction date, and the remodel date. It also talks about the purpose/history of the building, mentions that 250,000 pounds of coffee were roasted in the basement each year, describes its connection to the local railway, relation to a neighboring building, and the breadth of the distribution that happened from the building This is one of many in the neighborhood.
@NorthSeaPoet-ING My point was to illustrate that Niantic's ruling that art on a fire hydrant would block emergency services is not grounded in logic. If turning art on a fire hydrant into a waypoint is unsafe then something two feet away from it should also be unsafe. The underlying reason for such a rule is that people should not block emergency services, and if you look at the existing rule it very clearly outlaws blocking driveways of emergency services. It isn't that the driveway itself is ineligible, but that anything which might block the driveway is ineligible. That makes sense-- you don't want people standing in the driveway of a fire department for a raid and blocking a fire truck from dashing off to a fire. If a plaque like the one in my photo was right next to a fire station driveway then it would be ineligible.
This promotes vandalism of city property... people painting or tampering with fire hydrants.... only the city should allow any alterations to fire hydrants.... and id hope that after a city allows artist, or schools, etc to paint fire hydrants or turn them into art... that they are then inspected for functionality...
clear obstruction of emergency services concern
Who hasn't given up yet?
Fire hydrants are not allowed, cultural spots next to them, etc. are ok.
There's nothing wrong with that definition.
I see you haven't, you're still here.
I'm not looking to argue or be combative. I 100% predicted this to be the Niantic decision. But do you at least, from a reviewer and nominator standpoint, understand that it's a bit odd that something a foot or less away from a hydrant would be acceptable but the hydrant itself is obstruction of emergency services?
Until the guidance is published (and, well, after probably), I will worry that people will over exaggerate that obstruction to things nearby. I don't consider myself a long time reviewer by any means, but I have seen people use the excuse that something adjacent to a hydrant, fire lane, or across the street of a fire station must be rejected for obstruction of emergency services. I find that excessive and I feel like that leads to unnecessary disagreements.
The only thing that has changed about the guidance is that they don't want us nominating fire hydrants. If people keep pushing this I'm concerned they will come back and say "fine- don't accept anything within 20m of a fire hydrant or anything that could block emergency services"
They have not said that. All that's been said is painted fire hydrants aren't eligible. I see what people are saying. But I also see why they wouldn't want to encourage us to nominate objects whose whole purpose is to be used in an emergency. I get that emergency services could be blocked by people standing at objects NEAR the hydrants, but allowing us to nominate the hydrants themselves could very well get them sued.