We need to talk about how broken Wayfarer is
DarthLayer-ING
Posts: 41 ✭✭
Not looking to be anyones spotlight here. Not crying about anything in general, just an observation after testing the wayfarer system over the last week.
PS
In advance, it failed miserably
Hear me out....
I took a trip back home, The Keys, played a little ingress, hit some old time greats, even captured a ton of uniques clearing miles of machina to make way for layers. Good times right? From southern Islamorada to downtown, mile markers 74-81, There were 13 unsubmitted resort marques that I spent the time properly addressing and adding to this game, hopefully. Who denies resort marquees right? These are usually the first door to other poi's behind it. Out of those 13, there was an additional 'fake' added for a total of 14 resort like marque additions to the game. Note, I'm testing the system here. All of which, were within the nessisary requirements to become approved portals. That's why only 2 of them made it into the game. What a shame. Oh, and the fake one made it as well. Good job guys, 2 out of a legit 13 get the nod while the fake slipped in as well. I say you failed if you had anything to do with the processing of these subs, because they were practically identical in the ways needed to make the game. That's why 2 of them were just undeniable and the other 11.....seriously though, you can't be serious!!?.
How broke does it look to me as someone who actually puts effort, pride, and has somewhat of a clue I would hope, has an idea of what the criteria is for submitting? Got 100's of seer points right?
On another broken note...
Don't you find it strange they want to start enforcement of Pokémon rules on decade old ingress portals/poi's the same weekend I use said certain portal that has a million plus visitors every year, tons of foot traffic, but, because we ain't walking there, it gets removed the minute I throw a field from it? This isn't the only one they removed this week for this extreemly poor sportmanship of a reason. The Caymans lost Amphrite The Bronze as we did COTA off the coast of Key Largo. This 'ticky-tack' rule shouldn't apply if it's safe to be there and or get there. Period! The removal of National Monuments in State Parks or monuments of any variation that has traffic in the millions or just a few, is also a detriment to the survival and the overall long-term success of the game. Signs of poor sportsmanship or just a lack of will to get to actual, already accepted, proven, proper, portal/poi's is pathetic at best. Make better decisions please!
PS red faction is also ending groups that were megafield friendly and group get together oriented. It's not helping and agents are quietly quitting.
/rant
Comments
The submission and review system is absolutely bonkers. I've noticed I can get faster approvals than other agents in my area, for no discernable reason. I don't have fast track credits or anything like that. The only difference that I can tell is that my home location (the one you can't change, ever, which is dumb given that I've relocated 5 or 6 times since I started playing) is over 1000 miles from any of my submissions in the last year. I'm talking 3 days from portal submission to it going live. ????
What is a resort marquee? Just the entrance to a hotel resort?
The big sign out front
I've no idea what a resort marquee is either. You'll need to share some of your nominations for people to give a view - it does seem a very low success rate if they're strong candidates that fully meet the current eligibility criteria, but without seeing the nominations...
As to the removal of wayspots that have been against the rules for over seven years, that's just due to players not reporting them in the past. Expecting Niantic to manually check each wayspot idoesn't break one of the fundamental rules isn't realistic. It has to rely on people doing the correct thing and playing by the rules.
Just two points:
Is this the type of marquee you are talking about?
Something that generally isn't eligible. They are basically complaining that 11 out of 14 nominations were correctly rejected. It is just that they don't view the results as correct.
@DarthLayer-ING I would love to help you find more things in The Keys. I grew up taking family vacations down there. My Animal Crossing island is named "Diver's Cove" after a place on Largo where we used to dock our boat when we vacationed there.
I have been to that underwater statue in Pennekamp many times. However, it did not meet the inclusion rules as they exist now. There is no pedestrian access to an underwater statue.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. You should NOT submit fake things. Resort signs aren't automatic acceptances.
But seriously, The Keys are one of my favorite places on earth. I've actually looked at the map before out of curiosity to see what else could be added.
Which nomination are we improving here?
@DarthLayer-ING can you share you nominations so we can have a look?
Re the rest of your views - I agree the reviewing process can be challenging - but so is some of the stuff being nominated. Education at all levels so better quality nominations and better quality reviews... That thread is for the General Discussion forum
So please @DarthLayer-ING can you copy and paste your nominations that failed and we can have a look and see if we can help
Thanks
Well I am surprise people even accept Marque as it means (basically as not an etymologyst)
""brand"" in this day and age
In the past it meant to "mark"
So some people may see advertising sign when you use the word
Some peope may think you have misspelt Marquee
Depending on your community and who is reviewing people will just see an entrance sign and not worthy as a place to explore, exercise of socialise.
As one entrance sign looks boring as and is rejected. One kinda looks neat and is accepted. Sooooo Subjective minds at work.
I tend to not accept these types of signs. But that is me. And as I am unable to see all the text and supporting info it is harder to provide more opinion. Sorry. And depending on your community and who is reviewing people will just see an entrance sign and not worthy as a place to explore, exercise of socialise (which would be me).
Hey. That wheelhouse looks cool with the fishing boat lookout thingee on top. Why was that rejected? the "Wheelhouse of the walk......" one
The problem with a lot of submissions of the Key's Resort Marque that are along The Overseas Highway is that reviewers not knowing the area understandably don't know that there is a bike/pedestrian walkway resembling a road that runs parallel to the highway. If you don't identify this on YOUR submissions then you risk a lot of reviewers denying them do to safety, as it looks as though they are off the highway. Your submissions moved my rating from good to fair as I approved them. I was thinking...I hope other reviewers know there are walkways, sure enough no. Next time better your discrption.
So, out of curiosity, have you tried nominating everything along this?
I was thinking about how down in the Keys y'all use "mile marker x" as a real designation to understand where you are along the highway. And then there is the walking/biking path along the whole thing. So, IMO, every mile marker along Overseas Highway could qualify as a POI bc it also serves the walking path.
Then there are the bridges and overlooks along the path.
As for what you've nominated, some of those places just look like neighborhood signs. I know Florida loves to accept neighborhood signs but most states reject them as ineligible. If a "resort" has something interesting about it, you will have to tell that story in the nomination. Just showing that it exists isn't enough. Most hotels (which is basically what resorts are) don't qualify to get POI. Though, it's possible, something *inside* the resort/hotel is eligible.
https://www.floridastateparks.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/FKOHT_Brochure_033120-web.pdf
I would think a lot of places down there have tiki huts that could be nominated. I would nominate fishing spots and piers.
I'd love to see the full nomination for that Wheelhouse of the Walk to see if we can spiff it up and resubmit.
@DarthLayer-ING I researched just one of the rejected resorts above - Pines & Palms. I think there are things that you can get accepted there, but the sign is probably not a slam dunk (as you've discovered).
There are a couple of docks and at least one tiki bar at the community pool. But this will require you to wander around this property taking photos. You will need to explain in the submission that these are not single family homes, but rental cottages.
I'm guessing all the resorts you listed above will have similar amenities that can be submitted individually.
This fountain has not been submitted. It's near Meze Morada - or seems to be. You obviously need to check to see if it still there.
This looks like it doesn't have any POI.
Just hit the appeal button on it.
Bit of a nitpick: you want your description that can be timeless. Newest now won't be newest in the next few years.
It's not a valid reason to reject but something for a submitter to improve upon. Also skeptical about the popularity of a business after the initial grand opening boom.
For clarity, @DarthLayer-ING I found this on Google, but I don't know what you are submitting. You just call it a "piece." What is a piece? I see a flying bridge with a pirate flag installed over a bait shack. Not to be too nitpicky, but this is not a Wheelhouse. I'm also not totally convinced that this is permanent. It doesn't look like the bridge is tied down to the platform. The first big storm that comes through there, that thing is gonna go flying (pun not necessarily intended). But if I could see the supplemental information you wrote, that might help me understand what you think this adds to the community. I'm not against this being a POI but I need a better understanding of what it is and why it's there.
It's not just a business, like Theater of the Sea 10 miles north, it's a spectal the same. These landmark features make for the poi. This, should've been a home run but now those that did vote for it got a nice ding on their respective scores, and those that didn't, didn't.
If I was submitting with the pokey account, that stack of coolers in the Google pic would be one. Bet.
This system is just unappealing and a drain. Good luck.
We often see our own submissions as homeruns but we'll have to understand that different set of people have different set of experiences and familiarity. It's as @SeaprincessHNB-PGO says, we'll need to see further context on what you submitted.
I'm halfway around the world and I have no idea how exactly does it relate to the Theater of the Sea from those initial phrases and your screenshot, you will have to introduce and show reviewers how does it meet eligibility as a popular restaurant if that's what you're going for. If you think you did and it still wasn't accepted, you have the option to resubmit with better content and proof, or give up on this one. I go for showing us first how you submitted this so we can help you improve your nomination style.
I've got over a hundred approved subs. I'm sure I've got at least half a clue what to do here. The system is broken beyond repair. The latest testing of the system proves it. 2 out of a legit 13 is a disgrace. Then add the one fake, and it makes the game on top of it. All jokes aside, I'm just done. I'm done wasting my time trying to help Niantic anymore. The bias is insane. We supplied tons of evidence for a removal all to be constantly denied, VS we throw fields from a decade old portal that's a national monument, in a state park, with a million visitors in foot traffic annually, and it gets removed in 3 days. #FOH
What game you submit through has no influence on something being approved or not.
I would agree that you have a clue on what to do but that may also be improved with multiple set of eyes to refine your nomination. For my own nominations, I ask if the words I write comes across as intended. What might generate confusion and how I can relate this in context with the object. From this recent thread, there is already something to improve for your example:
I'd also agree that the system is broken but reviewers as well as submitters are also to blame. See existing things and submit that regardless of the criteria or if it was wrongfully accepted, see a category rejected and they will wrongfully reject based on what a similar object falls in. I get that there is a high bar to understand in the onboarding but this is a game of reading and context.
I've seen your latest removal report and I don't think a link to the website equates to a ton of evidence towards the portal not being pedestrian accessible. You were also informed of the COTA being not pedestrian accessible, I'd say you were biased with the portal being an old portal and a national monument rather than the Wayfarer criteria being biased there. The frustrating part of Wayfarer is that the criteria are game-neutral, it doesn't account for whether the object is/was a lynchpin in gameplay.
Some of the Wayfarer Criteria are just bad for Ingress I think. We too have Tourist sites, Churches and Artwork removed while now having to cope with thousands of small/tiny playgrounds... if you don't play them they will get infected if you play them it is simply boring... I used to discover real treasures in other places thanks to Ingress and now it feels like a Family outing with kids and actually I play, when they are not with me... to see something else for once....
For example there is a wonderful old Menk Construction site vehicle close to the Work Museum. It's been a Portal for years and it is awesome, History revealed. It is placed on a small Roundabout. It is really a small roundabout, you didn't have to crossover to reach plus not very much traffic-of course it got removed, due to the Roundabout Rule... Sad... a former schoolbuilding that doesn't even have a school in it was removed because of the school rule... One or two playgrounds are OK but in my area (Hamburg Germany) I have a whole new resident site and basically every entrance got a rocking horse or a jumping table and every single one is a portal that's so boring... Good for one game boring for the other...
@WeeFreeFang-ING this thread might interest you