Gazebos, Pergolas, and Pavillions
FightinGobbler-PGO
Posts: 14 ✭✭
Good morning.
I just received this appeal rejection with the Niantic Reviewer stating that pergolas are not acceptable wayspots. I was under the impression that Pergolas, Gazebos, and Pavillions were automatic five stars as long as they’re in a public space (ie. not on private residential property).
Has something changed? If not, can this Niantic appeal decision be reversed as this is in a social area for the surrounding apartment complexes?
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No object is an automatic 5 stars - you've got to evidence that it's a great place to explore, socialise or exercise under current criteria. Did you clearly cover this in your text?
If you are nominating for a pokestop, it would not make it into the game anyway. But a pergola is more or less the same as a pavilion in my opinion. A shade structure to have a picnic. You might also try nominating the fitness center. But again, it won’t make a pokestop.
Faversham, I hear what you’re saying, not an auto-five star, but pergolas, gazebos, and Pavillions are built for people to gather under and be social. It’s the purpose of the structure. It’s is similar to how one shouldn’t have to say that an athletic field is a great place to exercise. It should be understood.
MsPacman111, it would create a pokestop as it is in an empty L17 S2 cell.
Regardless of all this, the Niantic reviewer said they aren’t eligible unless they're unique in some way, which doesn’t match previous guidance around places that encourage social interactions, so I’m only asking for some clarity as this whole process has taken over 2 years.
Thanks all.
@FightinGobbler-PGO my information is showing differently but who knows?
I hope you don't vote in Wayfarer giving everyone 5 stars for pergolas. To me, it looks like a gated apartment building and those are not favorable public spaces. Often there is a sign that says "Private Property - No Trespassing". I call these discriminating community spaces because you have to be a paying member for access.
A public space would be an open city park that anyone can freely walk through 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (24/7). Recently, I accepted a pergola that's on a beautiful neighborhood greenway walking/biking trail. No one can be denied to use it as a social gathering place.
Duke, Niantic has said many times in the past that as long as a person can access the wayspot and it’s not private residential property, the wayspot can be valid. Please see the links below.
“November 2020 AMA which I got from Wayfarer;
How does “publicly accessible” apply to locations that have limited access, like members-only clubs, gated communities, time-restricted areas?
I would also encourage you to listen to the Wayspotters podcast. They just discussed this exact topic (restricted location POIs) on last week’s pod. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wayspotters-a-niantic-wayfarer-podcast/id1605659191?i=1000627352529
Things in communal areas of gated spaces are allowed. It's not a single family private residence.
Folgers Coffee is in that cell.
Ah, I see that stop now. Odd it isn’t in IITC. Trying to remember if I had the wherewithal to put it just in the other cell. It’s been 2.5 years, so I don’t recall. Hopefully I did.
I am well aware of this. I never said it's "not" a public space nor a "private residence". But it's not a fabulous 5 star, either.
With the photo that you added here I cannot answer this....
The answer they have given you is not that Pergolas are not eligible but this Pergola has nothing special about it. That to me is the key point
To really get a feel for it. Can you open in a web page and copy and paste the entire nomination. That way it may be possible to give better feedback.
Yeah, this appeal rejection is 100% wrong. That is absolutely the kind of pergola that is made for socializing.
@NianticAaron Please take a look at this and educate the person who rejected this appeal.
EDIT deleted as posted twice
What where did my comment go
Do not think this was unfair rejction. And I think a better nomination may pass.
OK. @FightinGobbler-PGO That second photo. That is so like a pergola I would be using that. Both should show the lattice work. That first photo shows nothing. And as we view things in micro seconds so some people will carry the view that is not a pergola across the nomination. We do it, all of us, without realising it.
The rejecton spoke to nothing special so that says to me the need to address a great place to socialise. Your text and main photo let alone supporting information do not appear to show this. You may have had rejected in the past don't know. Was that different but still rejected?
I will address the private v public later. For now my comments are about the nominations generally. Keep it simple
Fix up the photos. Don't use plural pergola. Do not have all that guff in supporting telling people why it is eligible. Go for the **** of what it is. So say a Great place to socialise.
Simple Title - Roasters Pergola
Simple Description. Community pergola next to the swimming pool. Providing social gathering space to escape the sun, have picnics or just get together.
Supporting Text: Great place to socialise. Community space for local activities. Clearly seen in Google Aerial view.
Now the bone of contention. Access
Niantic Criteria Niantic Wayfarer (nianticlabs.com) State a POI must be "Publicly Accessible to Pedestrians" - Rightly or wrongly some people view this as meaning that anyone can just walk off the street and access the property. For other reviewers just because you walked in, you opened a gate, you asked a resident to access it - does not make it publicly accessible nor an excuse to create a POI.
Some Niantic people will call it a community facility. And that is not a single dwelling private residence. Under law XYZ and bring up numerous chatter about it. And will get very heated about this
Now for context . I have a pool, picnic space and playground in my community apartment complex. Lovely spot. I will not nominate it nor would I accept a nomination for it. As it is not publicly accessible. Your job as a nominator is to convince people like me it has legal public access to pedestrians. My neighbours would neck you if you walking in unannounced to play a Niantic activity. And I can assure you - saying but Niantic says it is OK will not cut it. As much as that POI would benefit me - still would not do it.
Rightly or wrongly. As we all view this one differently.
Re people should know. Not so sure on that. I get a statue or park or art installation etc being obvious but I would say a gazebo/pergola not so much. And even then the onus is on us a reviewers to prove why it is a great place socialise, explore or exercise. And still address all the other criteria elements. A statue on a busy round about does not pass criteria even though it is obvious. So gotta be careful so I agree with @Faversham71-ING we must convince the reviewer why and to do the hard work so the reviewer does not.
Putting aside the access part. If I saw your pergola presented well and it was in my LGA park then I would star it up not reject it.
Go again. Address all the points. And go from there. And sort out that first photo. But make it clean as. use all the advice you have received. Re read all the criteria documentation and address well. Then see how it goes.
Good luck :-)
You seem to be confusing the terms pedestrian and intruder.
Pedestrian means someone walking on foot (or with a mobility device). Please stop spreading your own interpretation of the rules that Niantic has clarified over and over and over.
This is for a multifamily property. The location is eligible. Every person who plays a Niantic game has to obey local laws about trespassing. That doesn't mean that POI aren't eligible because the entire planet doesn't have free access to them.
I’m curious if it was rejected because a hot tub is in the foreground of the first photo and it was stated the pergola is part of the community pool, and the general consensus is those are not eligible. Perhaps wise to avoid all mentions and images of the community pool and use the second photo.
We don’t have to speculate as to why it was rejected. The Niantic Appeal Reviewer said this pergola was “of no significance”.
@NianticAaron hasn't weighed in yet, but based on most of the responses here, it would seem that explanation doesn’t make sense. Anyway this can be reversed?
I am not confusing anything. I will state this again. Just because people interpret Niantic rules to give them access rights to multi family units to create POIs for people to access does not make it the right thing to do. The eligibilty rule is publicly accessible. In the country I live in most multistory private apartment blocks are totally private including their private not publicly accessible community facilities.
Just because you can walk off the street DOES not make it publicly accessible. If people want free access to everything then that is their call.
If it can be shown that public access exists then all good and the game is on.
You can all call Niantic on me. Please please please ask Niantic to have a convo with me. I am more than happy to have this discussion directly with them. Some Niantic people will disagree with me. Some will not . And I will be hated and be called an abuser of the system and I should be banned and my disagree list rating will climb. I say bring it on. What people do in their own countries is up to them. How people want to use the rules is up to them.
I called this out for the nominator of their nomination because one of the rejection criteria they have been given was Not publicly accessible. I mentioned that. Because some people clearly have a view it was not. And if they were to nominate again they may have to address that. And it was part of the original question.
@FightinGobbler-PGO asked a question. I have suggested some change could be made to make a better nomination. I would clean up the nomination. That first photo does NOT show a pergola. The description and the supporting information need work to improve the nomination. There is nothing compelling about the nomination. That is my opinion.
I am suggesting it as I believe that people reviewing this nomination based on the evidence presented will low star it (excluding the access issue). If the nomination is cleaned up then there is every change the rating climbs. Just saying.
And it probably is reminder (certainly to me) just because a nomination is eligable does not make it acceptable. That nothing is a slam dunk.
I am not confusing anything. I am stating that unless is it publicly accessible it will be questioned. Being able to walk onto any property does not make it publicly accessible. Where I live most multi story apartment blocks are private as are their private community facilities. And for anyone to come in and do stuff like that will require body corporate/strata involvement and a bunch of process stuff to be gone through.
That is the case where I live. You do not have the right to walk in and out of Private Property to create or play a POI.
IF people want free access to everything that is their call.
People will hate me. People will disagree with me. People will call me an abuser of the system. I must be banned. That I am dumb and that Niantic says this and as Niantic is the law and I must bow before the great god of a Niantic player having access to everything. Well you know what. Report me. I am very very very comfortable to have this convo with Niantic. Please please please talk to me about this Niantic.
I only brought the issue up because one of the nomination rejections was private access. And I suggested that the nominator address showing public access if they were to renominate.
FightinGobbler-PGO you asked some questions. Based on my views and excluding the access issue I suggest this nomination needs work. The first main photo does not even show a pergola. The description and supporting text do not help the nomination. With some consideration given to working the nomination and renominating - it has every chance of getting higher stars. But as it stands I would have given this nomination a low rating.
I don't disagree with on the rejection as the nomination needs improving to show why it meets the eligibility criteria. How is this a great place to explore, exercise or socialise?. Do that and the rating goes up. That is all I am suggesting @FightinGobbler-PGO and good luck!!!
And we all need to remember (well I do) just because it maybe eligible does not make it acceptable.
@SeaprincessHNB-PGO Please not having a go. Just were I live we view things a bit differently. And I know my neighbours :-)
I guess you better submit everything in Disneyland for removal because you have to pay to get in there
Niantic recently turned down my appeal towards a Pergola that was declined by as being in private residence. Niantic had a very interesting take .. The Pergola is an entrance so not a Pergola.
I have seen most Pergola wayspots are indeed entrances. Are Niantic appeal reviewers confused? Are they giving in to faction pressure? Perhaps Niantic has to ask their appeal reviewers to retake training and be able to take independent decisions.
Copy and paste the nomination from a browser window (all of it include map and photos) into a forum post and let everyone have a look.
Without viewing it - it will be hard to say
Pergolas can be anywhere in the garden, covered, open, stand alone, attached to a house/building and will be largish garden structures. Traditionally they were longer linear structures and often had masonary such as a grand columns. The top "roof" should be flat.
Modern ones built today that are attached to a house are the most likely to have a covered roof and are used as an extension to a houses living space. I would call that a covered patio but hey :-)
But most normal pergolas will have an open roof and support vines/plants of some kind.
When you see those much smaller structures with open roof (most often arched) these are known as an Arbour. Much more simple design. Will not have masonary and are freestanding and will support plants/vines
Gazebos will always have a roof. Are often with round/circular base that is raised.
So while you claim it is not an entrance way (and we don't know as we have not seen it) - if the reviewer knows their gazebos to their arbours then their lens will not be the same as yours.
So please share it :-)
<<EDIT>> Delete repeat post
Pergolas have to have a slatted open roof and can either be stand alone structures or attached on one side to a building. No reason why they can't cover an entrance way, but if they're being submitted as an area for socialising they' need to be fairly substantial.
Perhaps you would want to explain how this is a great place to socialize or to explore. It seems, based on the picture, it is indeed an entrance and therefore doesn’t meet any eligibility criteria.
It really doesn't look like a social area - it looks far too small for even two people to gather so I can't see it fitting the socialize criteria. Exercise clearly doesn't fit and I don't think its intereting enough to fall under explore. Which of the three mandatory criteria did you think it met?
it is more of an entryway, if there was come cool vines on it, it MIGHT be able to squeeze through as an archway but still, i wouldn’t have given it 5* across the board, three stars max except for safe access and existing, but even on those two 4* would be a stretch for me