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Emergency personnel at a location eligible?

Reviewers in my country reject any location if there is an emergency personnel present at the nomination site.

I believe this stance is wrong because although there is a police present at say a court house, that is not his/her base of operations and should not be rejected on that grounds. By that logic, malls and parks and even any other building on a street should be rejected because police/firefighters/army etc are located or pass there and then the nomination would hinder them.

Can Niantic provide clarity on the statement "obstructs the driveways of Emergency Services" please because some person cannot understand the difference between a driveway and an entire building etc.

Best Answers

  • Perringaiden-INGPerringaiden-ING Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
    Answer ✓

    The presence of emergency personnel should not invalidate a portal. Similarly to fire hydrants, if we extend that logic, emergency personnel can be anywhere therefore all portals are invalid.

    It's a gross over-extension of a very specific exclusion.

Answers

  • GearGlider-INGGearGlider-ING Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do you have evidence/confirmation that these areas are being rejected because reviewers believe that emergency personnel presence is a reject reason?

  • MinusFive-INGMinusFive-ING Posts: 125 ✭✭✭

    I like this question. I don't have any evidence but I suspect that it's fairly possible that folks are generalizing this rule. There's probably also a good chance that if the guidelines started with ”accept” fire departments unless blah blah blah. Folks would accept the emergency service location driveway and fail to read the later blah blah blah. I know the regular updates to the guidelines only include text however, a picture with a red X on the firetruck driveway of a fire station might be nice with a green checkmark of a fire department sign that's safely on display in the regular automobile parking area might help. A lot of folks are visual learners. Just a thought.

    ​​​

  • beastefan77-PGObeastefan77-PGO Posts: 6 ✭✭

    @GearGlider-ING I have evidence of a courthouse being rejected on the grounds of location appears to obstruct the driveway of emergency services.

    @MinusFive-ING The picture reference from Niantic would be a great help. Hopefully someone from Niantic sees this and takes that suggestion.

    @Dice976jr-ING Your response is the exact reason I wrote this question. How is a Courthouse nomination obstructing the driveway of/operations of fire stations, police stations, hospitals, military bases, industrial sites, power plants, or air traffic control towers. A firefighter is not a fire station, a police officer is not a police station, a doctor/nurse is not a hospital, an army officer is not a military base etc etc. So arguing that a police officer is present is not a valid argument and generalizing the statement is unfair to the submitter who takes time and effort to submit these nominations.

  • PsychicPsykram-PGOPsychicPsykram-PGO Posts: 7 ✭✭

    I have encountered a similar issue

    A fire hydrant is not an emergency services building. It is infrastructure, like a stop sign.

  • Dice3423-INGDice3423-ING Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭

    A courthouse? They are in the candidate action guide as accept. They are allowed.

  • Dice3423-INGDice3423-ING Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
  • AgentB0ss-INGAgentB0ss-ING Posts: 553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You clearly didn’t read their first question then. You posted a random piece from Wayfarer help about obstructing emergency services when their question was related to if a place as an emergency personnel does it mean reject. Two different things. Please read the actual question before you quote the Wayfarer help. This one actually takes some time to think about before answering.

  • AgentB0ss-INGAgentB0ss-ING Posts: 553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To answer your question, a location with a Police presence wouldn’t deem it an emergency service. A great example would be colleges usually have police on staff at the college to help with many situations but a college is absolutely eligible. So as long as the point of interest is eligible and meets other criteria it should be fine.

    My usual suggestion without seeing the nomination would be take the best possible picture and provide a really detailed description explaining why this location is special.

  • Dice3423-INGDice3423-ING Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭

    What are you ranting about?

    Courthouses are not on the criteria for EMS. They are also in the candidate action guide that isn't shareable.

    He asked me a question directly. And I responded. It was a fine conversation.

  • Perringaiden-INGPerringaiden-ING Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
    Answer ✓

    The presence of emergency personnel should not invalidate a portal. Similarly to fire hydrants, if we extend that logic, emergency personnel can be anywhere therefore all portals are invalid.

    It's a gross over-extension of a very specific exclusion.

  • Dice3423-INGDice3423-ING Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭

    Fire-hydrants are an important piece of equipment that is used by Fire-fighters to put out fires. They are restricted areas to be used by Fire-Fighters and the community is well aware of it. How people should suggest they be wayspots and not a chance of interfering with Fire-fighters is crazy.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does this apply to artistically painted fire hydrants since they also provide an emergency service?

  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This fancy little summer decorated fire hydrant with "Hawaii Fire Brigade" got rejected for obstructing emergency services. The actual hydrant is being obstructed right there, imagine having to undress a fire hydrant just to actually use it.

    On a more relevant note, if people are gathering around or parking near any sort of driveway that obstruct emergency services, the onus is on them. If by then, fire hydrants, whether painted or not will obstruct emergency services and should be rejected, then anything around the hydrant all of a sudden becomes an obstruction.

    It's just a matter of common sense. If a firetruck needs to use the hydrant, just move along. If the hydrant really needs to be used, I'm sure anyone around it would be far enough away from the burning building. The driveway of a hospital/police station/fire station needs to be used rapidly 24/7, so if people gather there, they may not have much notice before an ambulance/police car/firetruck rushes out of the building.

    But a fire hydrant is just an object. The criteria however mainly focuses on a location providing emergency services, and accesses such as a door, garage or driveway.

  • Dice3423-INGDice3423-ING Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭

    Fire hydrants provide an emergency service. Water to put out the fire!

  • Dice3423-INGDice3423-ING Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭

    @AgentB0ss-ING Now this I would deem temporary because it would be removed to access the fire hydrant if needed. What do you think?

  • beastefan77-PGObeastefan77-PGO Posts: 6 ✭✭

    @Gabriel0322-PGO You are not understanding the criteria for rejection. Is english your native language? Not a snipe at you, just a general wonderment because the criteria for rejecting a nomination because of emergency services is conditional, that is, ONLY if the location (placement of the POI) appears to obstruct the driveway of the emergency service. There is no way a fire hydrant would be located in the driveways of any compound so then it cannot be rejected as "obstructing the driveway". That is not a valid reason. Calling it a mass produced object would be valid but there are many hydrants such as the example above which makes the hydrant unique so it wont be deemed as mass produced in such a case.

    It isn't like schools K-12 which tells you outright to reject any nomination that appears on such a compound. If that is what Niantic intended to be done then I guess the explanation would have "Reject any nomination if the location of the POI appears to be on the compound of an emergency service (Police station, Fire Station, Power plant, Military Base etc)." But alas, it was not stated as such.

  • msz21-INGmsz21-ING Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    Fire hydrants have always been a tricky subject. In the US, it is illegal to park by the fire hydrant and you will get a ticket as a result. Not to mention when getting your driver's license you are repeatedly told that if your vehicle is parked in front of a hydrant, a fire fighter is legally allowed to bust open the windows since they need to minimize the distance between the hose to the location and they will use the shattered windowed areas to pull the hose through.

    If the area is designed to be a place where you can't even park legally and is used for emergency operations as its main function, it should not be a viable nomination. This only applies to the United States since I don't know if other countries have similar applied rules because of a variety of reasons.

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