Request to recover unjustified Wayspot deletion
lvona-ING
Posts: 10 ✭✭
Title of the Wayspot: Berner Wanderweg
Location: 46.817317, 7.348119
City: Schwarzenburg
Country: Switzerland
The Wayspot is a waymarker "Berner hiking trail"
The Wayspot is on public ground
There is no school near the Wayspot
Therefore I see no reason exept jealousy why this Wayspot was appealed for deleting now for the FORTH time.
See the Dessisions from Niantic to restore this Waypoint October 2022:
See the Dessisions from Niantic to restore this Waypont Mai 2022:
Even the Niantic "Wayfarer Nomination Appeal System" has confirmed the Wayspot as legitimate. See attached confirmation.
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Comments
Hello,
Although the gate could be legitimate, it has a significant safety flaw.
As you can see on the screenshot, the access is not safe for pedestrians. The only sidewalk is a **** of yellow paint on the road. If we consider this road to be legally accessible, it has to be said that there is no crosswalk allowing access to the gate in question, whose road is deprived of any official pedestrian access. As the road is exclusively reserved for motorized vehicles, this is the only way to get there.
Niantic doesn't want to logically endanger the lives of agents, so this portal has no reason to exist.
Rules are rules.
I'm sure you won't let the difference in the gates keep you away from warm farming at home. :)
Have a beautiful day.
Why not access it from the top? There is no need to access from the main road that I can see.
I struggle to believe that the planners would put a trail marker on a path that cannot be safely accessed.
“Wanderwege” translated to englisch means “hiking trails”. So it should be clear that this path was made for pedestrians!
I was actually about to write the same, it is lots of grass and greens behind the sign. But imo the sign is very hard to say, this is where it belongs. Its probably several such signs along the trail, in short to say, the sign is massproduced.
Trail signs generally are mass produced, but that doesn't affect their validity.
Switzerland has a Network of over 65'000 km marked hiking trails. Those little Signs, like the rejected Portal"Berner Wanderweg", can be found by thousends all over the hiking trails in Switzrland. They are very very common and can be found everywhere. I uploaded a few of them to see if they pass the criteria. None of them did. This agent just wants a homeportal very badly like everyone else! Lol
I actually think this thing with trailermarks is a bit of a problem, and I really think Niantic needs to take a look at it. They say trailermarks, but Im not sure they mean these little plaques, when talking about trailermarks. These small trailermarks actually are huge problems. Not maybe in this specifique case, but on other places. They all look identical, there is no way of separating them, and if named the same way, you will end up having like 400 poi with very simular photos. Its actually became huge problem for us during a larger ops in one of niantics game (to keep it neutral 😂)
I think these small trailermarks should be excluded from being poi, while larger signs, like those infoboards with maps and name of the trail would still be legit. These small trailermarks actually goes against several of the criterias.
They are not visuell unique, they are massproduced, and they are very hard to distinct from one antoher. But the things about trailermarks maybe needs clarifications from niantic..
They've published clarification, but no one seems to read it:
These are fine, just name them well to clearly identify.
Another more recent thread: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/51324/submitting-trail-marker-nominations#latest
Thanks for the appeal, @lvona-ING. We have taken another look but stand by our decision to retire the Wayspot in question.
The fact that the sign says Wanderweg clearly indicates that this location has safe pedestrian access. The sign was clearly installed by the local authority, so it is not associated with the private residential property located behind it. I don't see it meet any other rejection criteria either.
About it being mass produced. It is a sign. A sign is an object that placemarks an area. The criteria apply to what is being nominated, not to the placemark. In the case of a trail, the nomination is for a specific section of a trail, not for the trail marker. So the mass-produced criterion should be weighted against the section of the trail, not against the marker. Since every section of a trail is unique, mass-produced can never apply to a trail marker.
That said, from the information provided in this thread, I do not see how this is a great place to explore, exercise or socialize. Where are the starting and end points of the trail? Is it just from the main road to the driveway of that first house? That's like 50 or 60 meters of concrete. It also does not appear to be part of a larger network of trails where you would be able to continue your activity. So I do not see how this meets eligibility criteria.
However, as far as we know, not meeting eligibility criteria is not a removal criterion. I know that the Wayfarer team is thinking about changing this, as they told us in the most recent AMA, but as far as I know, that is not the case yet.
@NianticRN, can you please provide us with the reasoning for the retirement of this Wayspot?
@TomateNinja-ING, you don't care about the criteria. You only care about the removal of the home portal of someone of the opposing faction. Don't act like you have the moral high ground.
Wow, thanks @TWVer-ING
Bevore your post I didn't really wanted to write anything else to this case, because once Niantic made a decision, they probably just decided and stay there. There is never any information about the reasons. But what speaks for Niantic is, that they have at least posted an answer in this appeal. They doesn't do that for every appeal, so I give Niantic definitely credit for this!
But let me make one thing very clear: The path there is absolutely safe for pedestrians, yes it is asphalted, but no car can drive in front of this portal except up to two houses. Further up the path is no longer passable for cars and cars have to take the "Zelgweg and Galgenzelg" path up to the other Houses. And there are very few cars, it is a quiet residential area...
Conclusion: I have already spent "hours" there at the portal scanning the portal without a single car crossing my path.
The hiking trail is part of a network of hiking trails. It is even part of ViaJacobi. ViaJacobi, a hiking trail that leads through all of Europe to Spain, definitely more hikers than cars come through there.
See you and have fun!
Interesting. So it is part of a trail. Your wayspot doesn't reflect that however. Your title is very generic. It should reflect that you are nominating a section of a trail. "Berner Wanderweg" just tells me that the nomination is for a path that happened to be located in Bern. The marker itself also doesn't really reflect the trail, so that won't save you. I would name it something like "ViaJacobi - Etappe 12 - Abstieg Galgenzelg". This reflects the trail, and the specific section of the trail you are nominating. That way the wayspot will have a unique name.
When you then have an investigation into the wayspot, the people reviewing the nomination have more to work with, and it is less likely that they make a wrong decision.
What is that round sticker on the pole? The one that says "Wegmar..." and "Vere...". If that is also a marker for that trail, it might be easier the be recognized as such depending of what it says.
That's the issue though. Whilst it might be a very quiet road, the map still shows that Galgenzelg is a road with access for motor vehicles (which can be seen by the garages and by cars on satellite view) and there's no footpath next to the marker. So I can understand Niantic not being willing to reinstate the Wayspot, as it technically doesn't meet their standards for pedestrian safety. If there is no longer any vehicular access down this specific part of Galgenzelg, and you have proof that it's not in use by any vehicles, then that might be enough for Niantic to restore it.