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Story Walks

I'm seeing quite a few of these of late, "Story Walks" with unique paragraphs or chapters on separate markers along a trail section. In some cases, these markers are quite close together, leading to a potential lengthy chain of wayspots. Should they be represented by a single entrance point, or should, as the Duplicates check seems to suggest, they be accepted for each individual marker? I tend to see them as a series, like the holes on a golf course, and don't know if there's any guidance or clarification explicitly for this candidate type.

Answers

  • 0X00FF00-ING0X00FF00-ING Posts: 769 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We have already been given instruction on how to rate such items in a series. Simply, if they're a "significant distance" apart, they can be approved individually. If they're clustered together, then submit as a single thing.

    But a personal note for submitters, PLEASE give such things each a relatively unique name? All this "long name #1" "long name #2" "long name #3" thing I keep seeing is ... fairly offputting. In Ingress terms, we need to be able to quickly make links based on their names alone. And in Pogo terms, describing to your fellows where the latest Spinda quest is without having to resort to screenshots is also a great kindness.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,535 Ambassador

    But a personal note for submitters, PLEASE give such things each a relatively unique name? All this "long name #1" "long name #2" "long name #3" thing I keep seeing is ... fairly offputting. In Ingress terms, we need to be able to quickly make links based on their names alone. And in Pogo terms, describing to your fellows where the latest Spinda quest is without having to resort to screenshots is also a great kindness.

    I sincerely agree with this, but I'm curious if you have other suggestions on naming conventions, @0X00FF00-ING? I certainly don' think you mean to ignore an official name, and unique names aren't always a possibility. There are 3 parks near me with library sponsored Story Walks that rotate a book out monthly or quarterly. The posts themselves are permanent and I would have personally considered them eligible (2 of the walks were in game long before I was involved in nominations and voting) and typically are "[City, library, or park name] Story Walk 1." I doubt anyone would think twice of "American Discovery Trail Mile 1.5" etc. Since the story rotates (in my local examples at least) doing a cleaver name associated with the title isn't a good choice, edits would be unclear and never keep up, and I would worry people would see the story rotates and be more likely to reject that particular story as temporary, even though the walk itself remains permanent.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,535 Ambassador

    I treat them more as a trail marker. If the name or of the walk or something that makes it clear they are tied to the walk and are visually unique, I consider each one eligible. They encourage outdoor exploration, literacy, and often come with educational followup information on the importance of summer reading and other literature.

    The guidance on being in a series, to me, implies that the individual signage can be considered as multiple Wayspots.

    • Objects installed in a series - Objects installed in a series can be submitted as a group or individually, depending on the distance between them. If they are relatively close together and share a single sign, consider them as a single Wayspot, but please ensure that the objects are in fact related before nominating. If they are relatively far apart, consider them as multiple Wayspots. 

    Wayspot Review FAQ also specifically says that proximity to nearby Wayspots should not be considered while reviewing; as long as the nomination is not a duplicate it is eligible no its own.

  • 0X00FF00-ING0X00FF00-ING Posts: 769 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't have ANY "naming conventions" that I use. But I steadfastly refuse to personally name anything "#1" "#2" etc. Perhaps if I were submitting something new where the first three are already named that way, but I'd still need some convincing.

    The one time I submitted a series of 4 baseball fields, I named them:

    1. All Your Base Are Belong To Us
    2. Bat To The Future
    3. The Umpire Strikes Bat
    4. A Girl's Best Friend (with a description "Diamonds Are For Eva")

    I've ... also been prone to using punny names for other sportsball fields. Or for various other no-official-names items.

    In the case of something like a Story Walk, would I NEED to have them all named in a way that sorts nicely? ie.

    1. Story Walk - Jack Be Nimble
    2. Story Walk - Little Miss Muffet
    3. Story Walk - Peter Piper

    or is this easier?

    1. Jack Be Nimble
    2. Little Miss Muffet
    3. Peter Piper

    or an abbreviation?

    1. SW: Jack Be Nimble
    2. SW: Little Miss Muffet
    3. SW: Peter Piper

    All I can suggest is, "meh, it depends". Partly on mood, partly on gameplay utility. I mean, even if I created an Ingress mission that walked you through the trail, I'd list the portals used in the walkable order there, whether or not I let you do the mission "in order" or "in any order".

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,559 Ambassador

    So in one example I've seen a lot lately, a candidate was submitted as "Story Walk #16". Checking for duplicates showed that, yes, there were 15 other accepted waypoints, in close proximity to each other, along the same path. If anything, the distance between the last waypoint and this new candidate was greater than the previous accepted candidates (although still not ot that significant). So how does one handle a path with a series of objects spread out at uneven intervals? How should I rate this new submission, as Does Not Meet Criteria, as a Duplicate of Story Walk #1, or as an approved stop because the community has in the past interpreted "significant" differently than I?

  • Roli112-PGORoli112-PGO Posts: 2,236 Ambassador

    Treat them as trail signs. Or objects in series "that help tell a story" literally.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,535 Ambassador

    If anything, the distance between the last waypoint and this new candidate was greater than the previous accepted candidates (although still not ot that significant). If anything, the distance between the last waypoint and this new candidate was greater than the previous accepted candidates (although still not ot that significant). So how does one handle a path with a series of objects spread out at uneven intervals? 

    As long as the location backs up with the Satellite, Street, Photosphere, or supporting photos I would see no reason to consider spacing relevant to whether or not these unique signs should be eligible. Per FAQ: Should I take nearby Wayspot density into account when analyzing a nomination? As long as Wayspots aren't duplicates of one another and meet our acceptance criteria, they can be densely packed together. Some Wayspots may be filtered out if necessary.

    As with trail markers, it is the decision of the sponsor to decide what interval to place them - .1 miles .25 mile, every intersection, etc. A story walk could b on a winding trail, straight trail, or have other factors that influence the spacing used.

    How should I rate this new submission, as Does Not Meet Criteria, as a Duplicate of Story Walk #1, or as an approved stop because the community has in the past interpreted "significant" differently than I?

    I certainly wouldn't encourage rating a nomination differently because the community rates them differently, and it is certainly true that "previously accepted Wayspots does not imply acceptability."

    Significance to you doesn't equal significance to the community, and it's fair to infer the significance of something beyond how it is described. I personally do not consider little free libraries significant to me, but I understand that they provide value to hundreds of thousands of community members internationally and help connect people to literature, not to mention they have been described as eligible per the guides.

  • Shilfiell-INGShilfiell-ING Posts: 1,559 Ambassador

    Personally, I smile when I think of a small child walking this trail along with a parent/caregiver, reading each story segment in turn, and then having a stop to spin when each part is done before moving on. Each station is visually unique from the rest, although they're not visible on the current satellite views - they have decent enough supporting photos to make me think that the locations are pretty spot-on. I'm not looking at density here although if every trail had a trail marker every .1 km that I'd need to review individually, I'd probably quit reviewing out of sheer boredom. I have no issue with approving these items but I do want to be sure I'm reviewing them per Naintic guidelines and they are, truly, a series of objects without significant distance between. The "Significance" I speak of above is the Niantic "significant distance between objects in a series" and not cultural/historical significance rating. These story segments all share a common frame and are clearly interdependent: I guess what I'm looking for is a clearer definition of what constitutes a series in this very specific case.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,535 Ambassador
    edited July 2020

    I think that's a good way to look at things. I definitely agree about the trail markers, and I've had my evenings where I just need a break from having seen too many of them.

    I shared a few of the guides on what constitutes as a series, but even then it's "Niantic Clear." Objects that are clearly eligible and separate objects and eligible on their own can typically each be accepted. It gets a little more murky with athletic fields (or field amenities) that share the same boundary, or a cluster of closely located sculptures that all share the same information post.

    I don't think it would be unfair to have encouraged one sign for the entire walk, so long as it truly was something that "covered" all subsequent signage, but I do think the guides allow and maybe even encourage each sign as being eligible to nominate and approve.

    Post edited by Gendgi-PGO on
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