Red Telephone Boxes in the UK
MeridianFox-PGO
Posts: 41 ✭✭
I feel like we need some concrete Niantic clarification on Red Telephone Boxes.
They're a British icon and a staple of cultural significance in the UK which feels wrong not to be a "Point of interest". I'm British and I get excited when I see them so visitors from other places must want to see these historical POIs too? I know some already are pre-Wayfarer, but this is very rare.
From other posts on this forum I can see many others agree, whilst others feel there needs to be more clarification from Niantic first before we can start accepting them as a POI.
Many have been adopted by local communities via the "Adopt a Kiosk" scheme being converted into mini-libraries and Defibrillators, which also poses more clarification.
I've tried my best to break it down easily for everyone to understand and even if people disagree hopefully you learn something new!
We need Niantic to clarify this via following:
• What types of Kiosk are there?
(including info & clarification)
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K2 Kiosk - 1926 - 1935 *224 Remaining
K6 Kiosk - 1936 - 1968 *10,700 Remaining
Defibrillator - Does this obstruct 'Emergency services'? -The Defibrillator is for public use and creating a POI could potentially highlight these to more people. All ambulances are equiped with an Automated External Defibrillator (AED) so they wouldn't need access to these.
Other (Mini-Library, Phone charging station, WiFi box, converted boxes) - These have been suggested eligible by the community in other posts
Empty (phone missing / not in use / abandoned) - These would be up to the reviewer I assume
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I'd like to assume these are already POIs in-game as there are so few left so this does not pose a huge threat for eligibility/reviews:
K1 (Wooden) - *5 Remaining
K3 Kiosk - *2 Remaining
K4 Kiosk - *5 Remaining
K8 Kiosk - *54 Remaining
FYI - K5 & K7 Kiosk - *0 Remain
• How do we determine which is which?
Easy peasy lemon squeezy way to differentiate between the telephone boxes:
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K2 Kiosk - Windows are all same size & crown is created from pierces holes:
K6 Kiosk - Windows are narrower down the sides & crown is embossed metal:
Defibrillator Kiosk - Decommissioned with "DEFIBRILLATOR" heading, telephone replaced by Defib machine
A Library Kiosk and others will be obvious.
Please let me know your thoughts below I welcome any comments
Best Answers
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NianticCasey-ING
Posts: 538 admin
Hey folks,
Dropping in with a non-answer but also with a promise: This is a particularly tricky category of Wayspots because, while they are culturally relevant, interesting and definitely a tourist spot, they are also mass produced and (in some occasions) possible to interfere with medical emergencies.
Because this one is so complicated, I'm going to discuss it with the folks on the Wayfarer team that write the policies to see what they think and come back with a definitive answer once and for all. Following this, I also commit to adding it to the 'Potentially confusing nominations' section of the Help Center, as there's been much debate about this particular type of Wayspot.
Thanks for your patience.
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NianticCasey-ING
Posts: 538 admin
Hi folks,
Let me start by acknowledging the folks who have (rightfully) asked for clarification into UK post boxes and antique callboxes and fallout shelters in NYC. I don't have an answer for you on these yet (and this isn't the most appropriate thread for it anyway) but I'm talking this out with the Wayfarer team to get clarity for you.
With regard to the red telephone boxes in the UK: the less common versions (K1, K2, K3, K4 and K8) would be eligible as unique, notable and historical objects. For the much more common K6, there are too many remaining in production to not be considered mass-produced objects. Additionally, any that are defibrillators are ineligible as possibly interfering with emergency services (similar to the previous ruling about painted fire hydrants, although we're re-opening that discussion internally as well).
Now the excellent point was also raised about red telephone boxes outside of the UK. Since this is a much more uncommon sight and more likely to be an art or historical installment or some other unique location for gathering, these would be eligible as well.
Thanks for your patience, I'm working to add this clarification to the Help Center.
Answers
Yes I agree with red phone boxes but no to those with defibs. Defibs are an emergency service. Those that are concession boxes are a no from me also. People go to these for food/pet food when in need and vulnerable.
In general, they should be rejected as mass produced objects, which is something Niantic said previously about Royal Post Boxes. Only boxes that are listed or converted into little free libraries should be approved. However, just because something is old, rare, or "iconic" doesn't mean it is eligible as a Wayspot.
I accept these so long as they arent defibs, those I pass on as they are too murky to vote on. But yeah, 100% the nom defib ones should be, iconic, historic, places tourists tend to get their pictures taken. Would be nice to see niantic comment on these but they have been very quietly recently when it comes to guidance
I personally love them, however, I have voted to reject some in the past because the description has been poor (I.E. "iconic red phonebox"). With a decent write up, they can be approved.
I avoid voting on ones that have been converted to house defibs, and I can't justify giving a high rating to ones where the submitter shows little understanding of the significance of them.
Yeah from the posts here it seems many agree - no Defib ones. Would be great for Niantic to confirm in an AMA regarding the others.
I completely understand and I think your view is a valid one indeed that many seem to have here. Like you say - post boxes are mass produced and they're now widely accepted which goes against old, rare and iconic view of post boxes from a previous monarch that are accepted POIs. Thanks for the comment :)
I doubt NIA will ever give a definitive answer. Their response to UK postboxes has been vague enough that both arguments for and against postboxes could use NIA's stance to back their argument.
The telephone boxes are very much a niche thing and for us Brits, they are a big thing in terms of our culture and heritage, so an American company will probably never truly understand that, and will remain just vague enough that either side of the argument could use a NIA stance as evidence.
Hey folks,
Dropping in with a non-answer but also with a promise: This is a particularly tricky category of Wayspots because, while they are culturally relevant, interesting and definitely a tourist spot, they are also mass produced and (in some occasions) possible to interfere with medical emergencies.
Because this one is so complicated, I'm going to discuss it with the folks on the Wayfarer team that write the policies to see what they think and come back with a definitive answer once and for all. Following this, I also commit to adding it to the 'Potentially confusing nominations' section of the Help Center, as there's been much debate about this particular type of Wayspot.
Thanks for your patience.
Be sure to include references to iconic-red-UK phoneboxes that are NOT in the UK.
For example, if I found one at a North American British-themed pub.
Hey, while we're discussing mass produced items that seem to be particular to an area, can I ask for a follow up to total lack of response to NYC Emergency boxes and Fallout Shelter signs?!
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/5009/can-we-get-a-ruling-on-two-massively-over-submitted-nyc-specific-things#latest
Adding to this - in Norway there are 100 remaining phone boxes that are protected as cultural heritage. You can't place calls from them any more. I don't have an exact number, but I know that quite a few are wayspots already.
100 nationwide is so few that I don't see any reason they should not be accepted. Same goes for K2 and the other ones in the UK. As for K6, one could argue for or against them due to the number of them. Personally I think they're fine.
Defibrillators are another matter. On one hand, it helps people learn where they are in case of an emergency. On the other, if an emergency occurs, players shouldn't be blocking access to it. Fire hydrants were recently classed as obstructing emergency services, so there's precedence in that direction, but like fire hydrants, the traffic they see in comparison to e.g. actual hospitals and fire stations is very minor. The vast majority of the time, they're just there.
Thank you Casey!
Appreciate the response and the follow up promise! I think some clarification would be great :)
I'd probably accept the pub in that event, just in case red phone boxes arent allowed
Just because of this, when I was reviewing o came across this one, I was just gonna 4 star it as that's how I've been reviewing, but that description made it 5 for me
Unfortunately, it's that sort of description that would cause me to reject it because it doesn't seem relevant and doesnt really explain why it has historic/cultural value.
It will be interesting to read the response from the Wayfarer team and how they word and scope it.
It must take into account that there are old telephone boxes all around the world, but I think that in any other place outside UK it doesn't seem to have the same kind of historic value. That wouldn't prevent that other people now would start claiming that all phone boxes all around the world are valid.
But a red telephone box outside of the UK it's certainly an interesting wayspot by its own.
How would the current usage and status of the telephone box relate to its eligibility, how does this relate to other historic-mass produced objects, ...
So many variables for some people to keep arguing about one instance based on extrapolating a general rule
I suppose its similar to red post boxes that are specific to the UK :) we'll see I guess! Its definitely made me learn more about British culture and the history behind them. Because of the post box criteria I had no idea about different markings on Post boxes and now I notice them all the time and their differences :)
Yes but it's funny, we can have some funny ones and some relevant ones
The Phone Boxes with the Defibs in them are designed for members of the public to get and use in certain emergencies. I would expect an Ambulances to have their own Defib machines in the ambulances to use rather than relying on the ones that may appear in phone boxes in a few locations up and down the country.
Yeah exactly! Defibs are equipped in all Ambulances so emergency services would never use one. It's literally for the general public use so advertising where they are is only beneficial :)
Let us know if it got accepted - humorous descriptions are allowed according to the help sheets on Reddit ive seen ;)
Don't forget those other "iconic" UK items, the "Red Postbox". 1000s and 1000s of them in the UK and yet we see a constant stream of mailboxes / postboxes being submitted or being accepted. There seems to be a reasonable level of agreement among UK reviewers that ones with the current Queens' cypher ( "EIIR") on them are too "mass produced / modern" to be allowed, but what about all the rest, or those reviewers who play the "Niantic does not explicitly say no so they have to get approved" card.
For both these "Historic Cultural Icons", we really need the Niantic "final answer" for these two.
Personally, I'd accept all of the red phone boxes due to their relative rarity. Unlike the equally iconic post boxes, none are being installed today and many in fact have been removed, often replaced with newer grey BT ones, most of which were then removed themselves - those are arguable more scarce, but don't have the visual appeal of the red ones.
In my sizeable town, I am aware of a single surviving red phone box. That pales in comparison to the amount of post boxes, even if we don't count the ERII ones.
Both phone boxes and post boxes appear to me to have reached a reasonable interpretation of the guidelines. They are often distinct points in the community a feature to navigate by or meet at. They are a link with the past and tell their own story.
There are submitters who could do better in explaining this in the description but the objects themselves are good.
In smaller locations the value of these objects increases.
i don’t think there is any need to rake over postboxes yet again.
The situation with defibrillators is a little odd. My experience is these are in more remote locations where 1 person might be considered a large gathering, but given how heavy the doors are I’m sure help to get at the defibrillator would be appreciated.
I'd also like to add there isn't a map of red kiosks anywhere that I can find (unless someone else can provide one) so it's merely a case of knowing your local area or discovering one.
Hi folks,
Let me start by acknowledging the folks who have (rightfully) asked for clarification into UK post boxes and antique callboxes and fallout shelters in NYC. I don't have an answer for you on these yet (and this isn't the most appropriate thread for it anyway) but I'm talking this out with the Wayfarer team to get clarity for you.
With regard to the red telephone boxes in the UK: the less common versions (K1, K2, K3, K4 and K8) would be eligible as unique, notable and historical objects. For the much more common K6, there are too many remaining in production to not be considered mass-produced objects. Additionally, any that are defibrillators are ineligible as possibly interfering with emergency services (similar to the previous ruling about painted fire hydrants, although we're re-opening that discussion internally as well).
Now the excellent point was also raised about red telephone boxes outside of the UK. Since this is a much more uncommon sight and more likely to be an art or historical installment or some other unique location for gathering, these would be eligible as well.
Thanks for your patience, I'm working to add this clarification to the Help Center.
(similar to the previous ruling about painted fire hydrants, although we're re-opening that discussion internally as well)
Great news!
Thank you for the clarification - this is fantastic news! :)
This information provided is wrong. There are less than 8000 red telephone boxes in total. Over 5000 are in London. That means, outside of London they are rare. They are only found in villages and areas of historic interest. Also, outside of London, all red phone boxes are K6.
I feel niantic has got this wrong.
Wasmt aware that they were all k6 outside london, that might need answer bit more discussion with @NianticCasey-ING