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Improving the location of a Gym rewards the player with LOSING THE GYM



  • tehstone-INGtehstone-ING Posts: 1,122 Ambassador

    Thank you for responding. I assumed that like the other distance and area rules we would never get a solid answer and that's alright, I understand the desire to not enable those who want to abuse the system.

  • PatrickyAlbani-PGOPatrickyAlbani-PGO Posts: 41 ✭✭

    @NianticCasey-ING could you please verify with the team about location edits that were accepted when the feature was unavailable and for some reason they didn't update into Pokémon GO? I assume having a Portal in one place and a Pokéstop/Gym in another place isn't the intended behavior

  • LiuKrang-PGOLiuKrang-PGO Posts: 14 ✭✭

    Thanks for asking this follow up. Have the same issue here. Today, I did what Casey suggested with the “report as invalid” to hopefully get the locations to sync up. I thought there would be a text box or something to help with the manual review. Hope my invalid report doesn’t lead to losing the poi.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,360 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticCasey-ING and the rest of the Wayfarer team:

    Honestly, with hand on heart, How many days do you expect to pass until someone publishes in Reddit a full detailed explanation about how the new changes work, detailing your secret algorithms?

    I bet that in 7 days after sync works again we'll know the meaning of "unless the location edit would place it too close to other existing Gyms".

    Kind regards and thank you for treating us like fools.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This was completely predictable, but I kept my mouth shut because it would only result in disagreements instead of understanding what was about to happen. You may as well apply this to Pokestops as well. There are just as many shenanigans going on there as well as with gyms. In fact, I'm confident that Niantic eventually will. And I already have an idea of what the algorithm is based on what we already know about the rules of creating Pokestops and gyms in the first place.

  • RhapsoTheSeer-INGRhapsoTheSeer-ING Posts: 48 ✭✭

    In simple words: if u had a s2 level 14 cell with 4 gym and u move one of these. That gym will convert to Pokestop. Following the s2 cell theory with full s2 cell level 17 and blablablah

  • DMiliarakis-INGDMiliarakis-ING Posts: 3 ✭✭

    You release that your answer isn't a answer right? Why can't for once Niantic be straight forward with it's player base? We need clear numbers for distance and how many gyms can coexist at the same time at a specific distance and how you define that one. A new s2 level maybe?

  • Stealth991-PGOStealth991-PGO Posts: 43 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2020

    👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Couldn’t agree more. I’m a day 1 PoGo player and formerly went hardcore on Ingress. That was until I ran into a few unsavory ingress players that pretty much made me walk away from that. I’ve since cut my PoGo play down by 80%. When I was first able to start Wayfarer I was excited and put a lot of free time into improving both games and helping to build up the community. Since then I’ve met the few Ingress players that are dead set on removing portals in enemy territory and removing portals submitted by certain players. They twist the criteria in their favor to get Niantic to remove them and Niantic lets them do it. I have gotten a couple things back with hard proof that they were doing it maliciously and that the reports were not truthful. Even then they’re still able to abuse the system. I’m tired of all the secrecy and lies. Niantic Support is a joke, full of outsourced people who don’t even play the games. They don’t take reports seriously of spoofing or cheating & Wayfarer support is no different. When I say someone is abusing reports, edits, etc nothing has become of it and people are left to continue to hara$s and report everything in sight with a good success rate on flat out lies in reports. I’ve been very vocal and I’m glad to see others mirroring my feelings. More people are eventually going to get fed up and it’s going to come down to a few hardcore people left that are willing to deal with this and that’s it. It’s no secret that this whole free labor portal scanning AR BS is only for future AR world mapping development. That’s the end game, not to improve their current games, but for their ultimate goal of getting an AR world map for free on the backs of players that they treat absolutely horribly. Ya’ll will see when the contract expires with TPCI... Get it together and realize that paying customers are the reason you have a job and a company at all. If you were any other business with any other brand you’d be long gone by now. The Pokémon name has kept you afloat but there’s only so much people are willing to take. Bye Niantic CIA!! 👋🏼

    Post edited by Stealth991-PGO on
  • AesOfSp8-PGOAesOfSp8-PGO Posts: 17 ✭✭

    How have u fixed the game cuz i still need 8 REMOTE passes and 4 rocket radars and 4 MYSTRIES components u did not answer on Twitter Even the i posted it on Any Thing u posted 5 weeks later u still havent fixed it still loosing passes and radars how long before u take responsibillity for ur game do have to keep playing for stuff i dont get or how does it work?

  • CrimeMinister-PGOCrimeMinister-PGO Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited August 2020

    You removed the portal that is in the right place and moved portals to wrong locations. This is next level of stupidity. If you don't know what you are doing then don't touch it f.f.s. You humiliate yourself big time. I wonder how would you fix this mess. Worst company ever.

  • Few days ago, I was visiting this place for some office work then I came across this place. Its a nice Gym cluster for Raid Hour but when I checked it out with S12, S14, S17 cells I found it interesting that there were 5 Gyms in 1 S14 cell. Alot of Pokestops and Gyms were at mismatched locations, rather they were from neighbouring cells to make this cluster. I know alot of people misuse the location edit of Pokestops to gain a Home gym or move them for their preferable location. But this place have 3 gyms at 1 single location. So the one who made those edits must be a very smart guy. Sadly, thats not according to Wayfarer, S14 cells criteria.

    Coordinates of the said cluster are:-


    @NianticCasey-ING @NianticKN-ING @NianticMessi-ING please look into such locations where trainers are openly doing location edits, making fake submissions, moving Gyms from neighbouring cells to their cells, such areas should be revised and Gym allotment and Pokestop locations must be restored to their actual places.

  • Dlrken-PGODlrken-PGO Posts: 15 ✭✭

    @NianticCasey-ING Hi Casey,

    Can you provide an answer to the topic of what will happen with the gyms affected BEFORE that you chose to apply the 10m edit rule? Those gyms that got affected will be back? You'll not do any to them?

    This question has not been answered.

  • TheFarix-PGOTheFarix-PGO Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's not a bug, but a feature that Niantic implemented to combat Wayfarer abuse by moving Wayspots to inaccurate locations to create new gyms or to create artificial gym clusters.

    The new behavior is now that Pokémon GO will maintain a Wayspot's Gym status unless the location edit would place it too close to other existing Gyms, in which case the moved Gym would be converted into a PokéStop.

    While Niantic doesn't discuss the "secret sauce" behind what determins which Wayspots are used as Pokestops and gyms, presume that there is a 2-3 gym cap on any L14 S2 cell. If similar location edit abuse continues to create artificial Pokestop clusters, I would expect a similar cap to be implemented at the L17 cells as well.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,360 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just notice what you've wrote: "if they move to a location that has too many Gyms in that C14"

    So Niantic could argue that now they have fixed the bug that allowed to create more gyms that it was supposed to, and the current situation is not a bug at all and the more wayspots you keep on moving to try to gain extra gyms, the more zones will revert to their correct state with a maximum of 1, 2 or 3 gyms.

  • BSHM-INGBSHM-ING Posts: 12 ✭✭

    Ustedes decidieron ello, por abusar de WF, entonces no puedes decir que es culpa de NIA, eso lleva a consecuencias

  • David11984-PGODavid11984-PGO Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited August 2020

    Right now even cells that do not exceed the gym limit can be abusive.

    Anyone who knows what is going on could move a cell gym simply to demote it and place a new gym in their home.

    From what is known, he doesn't even need to change cells. Just by moving a few meters in the same cell and having another portal voted on another site, you could put a gym in your home.

    What this will encourage is a major abuse who does not want a gym at home? It will be the new war ... to burst everything for their own benefit and if they don't stop it, the abuses of editions with this base will multiply.

    In addition, many people who valued have stopped doing it, they do not know what to abide and value supposes to contribute to breaking up communities.

  • Hydracyan-INGHydracyan-ING Posts: 130 ✭✭✭

    So far are the only "missing" gym being at location with previous manipulation?

    So people are complaing here because they lost an unfair advantage that were agains the rules?

  • AndyXYZ123-PGOAndyXYZ123-PGO Posts: 15 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2020

    No. Please literally read the first post.

    Niantic took away our Gym, which was the only Gym or Pokestop in its L17 cell. It was moved within its own original cell. It didn't change the cell. The location edit was a pure, innocent, genuine, benevolent attempt to improve the location by a couple of meters.

    There was no previous manipulation whatsoever. The whole L14 cell had 17 POIs (of which 2 were Gyms), which is the normal amount of Gyms. No manipulation whatsoever. But our Gym got demoted because Niantic obviously didn't think this through before applying their weird changes to location edits that were made months earlier. Meanwhile, the actual manipulators in Zaragoza, Fuerteventura, Tokyo etc. are still enjoying their clusters of Gyms, whereas my innocent town got screwed for NO REASON. Niantic punished the wrong people.


    And what actually makes me mad is that we STILL didn't get a proper answer by @NianticCasey-ING . Will we get our Gym back or not? This is literally a "yes or no" question, Casey. Do you care to undo the damage that you guys have done to several innocent communities or are you indifferent about us? I've already posted the details of our Gym and requested multiple times to get it back; this certainly wouldn't take much time for you to manually turn it back into a Gym.

    People in my community know that I have created most of the Wayspots in my district. Almost every freaking day, people ask me: "Where did the Gym go? What did you do to it??". And I always have to reply: "Well, it wasn't my fault. It's gone because Niantic did some weird stuff, but I've already contacted them, they said it was unintended behaviour and they promised they are working on a fix". Since then we're waiting. Initially we were told to wait for the next app update, which didn't bring a fix. Then we were told to wait until the end of the month, which didn't bring a fix either. Now we did get some information on future location edits, but the question about our Gym is still unanswered. And people in my community keep asking me why the Gym is still not back. All I can reply is: "Well... Niantic still didn't reply to me", but some of them don't believe me and think I demoted the Gym on purpose because of rivalry -.- I literally have to deal with personal bullstuff like this because of the damage Niantic has done to our community.

    It's been 2 months now. I used to be pretty active in Wayfarer. I guess it goes without saying that I haven't reviewed a single submission in Wayfarer since then. Because why should I keep doing free labour, if it gets ruined by uNiNtEnDeD bEhAvIoUr and then I don't even get a reply whether it will be restored or not?

  • Hydracyan-INGHydracyan-ING Posts: 130 ✭✭✭

    I did recently an edit of an gym to another cell (17, it still same 14) to correct it's location and it still intact after the edit being approved (2 days ago). At least the bug has ended.

    @AndyXYZ123-PGO didn't you get another gym somewhere else when the other disappeared?

  • AndyXYZ123-PGOAndyXYZ123-PGO Posts: 15 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2020

    @Hydraulinski-ING Yes, we did get another Gym at a different place, but our old Gym was much more famous (it's literally one of the most famous sculptures in our town), much more culturally relevant, and - most importantly - had a much easier and safer pedestrian access. It was probably our most-raided and most-beloved Gym in a pretty central position. The new Gym is a rather unknown insignificant climbing-tower in a darker area with lots of drunk and stoned people. I think not a single Raid was completed there so far. Because we just don't like it. This btw has a direct impact on Niantic's income^^ And there's absolutely no reason why this should even be a Gym in the first place, other than "Niantic screwed it up". We have asked kindly so many times whether the changes will be undone, but we're getting ignored every single time.

  • Hydracyan-INGHydracyan-ING Posts: 130 ✭✭✭

    Have you made a complaining at support? You can try report the new gym, if it's remove your old one might became gym again.

    It's really a shame when an important and cultural place didn't became the gym and a random place like a **** "graffiti" became, sometimes just because it had a bad picture that someone uploaded a better one. The system that decided Wich one became a gym is really bad. It should give priority for parks/green areas.

  • AndyXYZ123-PGOAndyXYZ123-PGO Posts: 15 ✭✭✭

    Yes I have contacted support, but didn't receive any reply from them either. I was hopeful when Casey promised a fix here, but the important question keeps getting ignored.

    "sometimes just because it had a bad picture that someone uploaded a better one"

    That's exactly what happened here. We had a Pokestop with a very dark blurry rainy photo, so we added a better photo and upvoted it, which then meant it had a higher photo score in Ingress than our beloved Sculpture Gym. If we had known that Niantic would do us so dirty, we would have never tried to submit beautiful photos or improve the location of anything.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,360 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can try to play Niantic's game:

    Upload new photos to your preferred gym, upvote all of them to the roof and then start requesting location edits until the same "bug" happens again and now demotes the new one and restores the old gym.

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