Invalid Wayspot Appeal: Wayspot approved with fake photo
Flooom-ING
Posts: 10 ✭✭
Title of the Portal: Queen Elizabeth Drive GR Postbox
Location:
51.342979,-0.011735
https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=51.342979,-0.011735&z=15&pll=51.342979,-0.011735
City: London
Country: UK
Screenshot of the Rejection Email:
Photos to support your claim:
Additional information:
The first two photos are taken from the ingress scanner. The third photo is taken from the location of this portal in Google Street View.
The photo used for the submission of this postbox is not of this postbox but is of a completely different postbox. This can be clearly seen due to the letters GR (Representing that it dates from the reign of King George VI) on the body of the postbox in the fake photos, and the letters ER (representing that it is from the reign of Queen Elizabeth) on the body of the postbox as seen in street view.
This waypoint was submitted with fake photos to increase its chances of being accepted. While there is debate in the UK over which postboxes are acceptable - postboxes with initials GR are typically accepted, while postboxes with the initials ER are almost never accepted due to the fact that they are still in production in the present day. Without the fake image this waypoint would not have been accepted.
Please can you reconsider your decision to retain this waypoint.
Comments
Appeal Accepted- Thanks for the appeal, Agent. We gave this a second look and decided to retire the Portal in question.
We’ve taken a second look and decided to reverse our decision. This Portal does not meet our criteria for removal at this time. Having said that, you can update the correct image of the object through Ingress Prime.
What the actual kghqedkg @NianticAaron-PGO you made the right decision on this appeal 1st time, now because we link it to an appeal where the incorrect decision was made and this one used as proof of your inconsistency you reverse the wrong decision. We now have people in our wayfarer communities saying that submitting EIIR postboxes with fake photos is now accepted by NIA and they are going to start voting on them and submitting them. You really let yourselves down time and time again. What is the logic for allowing fake photos to submit and then say just change the photo to the right thing once it's been accepted. This goes completely against what we in the wayfarer community are striving for 😡
According to this latest action, now people can nominate fake PoI, then update later the photo+title to a plain wall showing that there's nothing there but as a plain wall doesn't match the Removal Criteria it can stay forever in Wayfarer.
This will be very useful in places where they have ran out ideas about what to nominate.
Wow... just, wow!
@NianticAaron-PGO I am shocked you have made this decision.
What this says to me and all other people concerned with the Wayfarer system is that you don't care whether people submit things with a photo of the object in question or whether they use a fake photo.
Please can you reconsider your decision to retain this waypoint?
If not, please can you explain why you made this decision?
If not, please can you remove what has been clearly proven to be a fake photo?
@NianticAaron-PGO this is ridiculous. You made the correct decision to remove a fake candidate then, respectfully, has something possessed you?
The submitter has taken a photo of a different postbox over 100 years old, that can be justified as having historical value and lied to submit a generic postbox of our current monarch, a type of postbox so mass produced and of zero significance that they make up 75% of all UK Postboxes, the US equivalent of the Blue Mail Boxes that are generic street furniture.
There is no doubt that the photo is not of the postbox that the portal represents.
Your decision reversal is damaging for the following reasons:
A.) The submitter has clearly lied and was able to game the system, your acceptance of this behaviour does not reprimand this behaviour.
B.) This is damaging to Niantic’s network, one of, if not the most valuable asset. Low quality, fake candidates do not contribute to a network of genuine, high quality points of interest for people to explore in the real world.
C.) Your suggestion to add another photo to the Wayspot, of something several of your colleagues (Andrew Krug & @NianticCasey-ING) have been Crystal clear that doesn’t meet criteria, legitimises these inappropriate candidates and will add to further confusion of what the criteria and guidance states what is acceptable or not.
I hope you are able to appreciate that your first decision was the correct one, and allows the integrity of the network to be maintained.
This is amazing thank you @NianticAaron-PGO . This confirms that niantic think there's no problem with people submitting fake POIs so no need to bother with the pesky abuse form when reviewing, but I also have an additional 100+ POIs to start submitting.
@NianticCasey-ING
What kind of idiots are in the Wayfarer team ?
They make the correct decision on an appeal, and then reverse it. What the actual ....
Appeals are a truly pathetic pointless waste of time now due to the total idiots that you have processing them.
You obviously don't give a flying F@#$ about fake POI's being removed, why the @#$% should we care about reviewing them correctly ?
What a totally pathetic way to handle things.
What a ridiculous decision. Can’t believe you actually reversed a correct choice to then give the get go for people who cheat.
I have some irritated commentary in the semi-related thread about the other UK-ism, where some phone boxes are eligible and others are not
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/5611/red-telephone-boxes-in-the-uk#latest
I'm just trying to understand this precedent.
1. Are all ER postboxes now valid?
2. Are ER postboxes only valid when they have an incorrect title claiming they are a different more historical postbox? (As the advice is to submit a photo of the actual ER postbox after the wayspot has gone live, it would be more efficient to just submit the actual postbox in the first place)
3. Are ER postboxes only valid when the have both an incorrect (fake) photo and an incorrect title?
I'm leaning towards number 3 being correct.
Andrew Krug was very clear that mass produced postboxes should be rejected and everyone agrees ER postboxes are so common and are still in production so number 1 cannot be correct.
None of this makes sense so I could easily be wrong. I am still awaiting an explanation from Niantic as to why they like fake submissions.
Having said that, you can update the correct image of the object through Ingress Prime.
It sounds like you are encouraging this user to engage in abuse themselves.
I would not encourage them to attach photos that could link them to this abuse.
None of the above. They still are not acceptable.
However "not meeting the acceptance criteria" is not one of the removal criteria. Neither is photo related problems.
There is no new precedent here. Things that have been wrongfully approved not being able to be removed unless they meet one the specific removal criteria is really dumb, but long established.
Not being from the UK, I agree with the other players that reversing this makes no sense.
"You can update the picture" is a ridiculous reason, which allows abusers to submit fake Wayspots as much as they want.
Just lie and fake submit something that would be eligible, then replace the picture with what is actually there - bam you're done.
Niantic needs to stop having two sets of criteria (1 for reviewing, 1 for removal). There needs to be 1 set for both Niantic and players, because you are just creating confusion and frustration this way.
For me , its still forbidden ..🤷♂️