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I worked in hospitals for years, my partner works on a health campus now, and your decision on hospitals is poorly thought out and badly justified.
Health campuses can be very large, employing thousands of people, and have a variety of purposes and areas. They can have heavily trafficked public areas, lecture theatres, chapels, research laboratories, courtyards, gardens, cafes, shopping areas, playgrounds etc etc etc. In my country we have a lot of locally commissioned public art in the public corridors.
Essential life-saving work happens in the emergency department and inside the wards, not anywhere else - and these can be a MINORITY of the space, not a majority. And there are unlikely to be any eligible POIs in those spaces anyway.
Thanks for the response! I'm excited to see more members of the Wayfarer team participating in the forums. It really makes it feel like an active community when we get more responses and inputs from more people.
Interesting. Maybe @NianticCasey-ING can explain why when I have literally drawn for them with a crayon and piece of paper how to reach a POI without putting yourself in a dangerous position, they still claim it’s ineligible... Over and over I’ve made the same claim about a POI that was erroneously and maliciously removed by someone twisting criteria in their favor to remove POIs in a different team’s main play area. I have successfully reinstated many of them after pointing out the actual location did in fact qualify. But 1 in particular they keep fighting me on even after detailed explanations, photos and drawings. @NianticCasey-ING looking for an answer from you directly as to why rules are changed by the day and the Niantic rep reviewing the criteria. IF IT HAS SAFE PEDESTRIAN ACCESS (whatever that mystery may be that’s locked in Niantic’s vault) THEN WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO FIGHT ME? And why do you refuse to punish the same person when I report them for abusing the report feature even after you’ve overturned tons of their so-called legitimate reports? 🙄
With that trail markers clarification are you implying that every single trail marker can be submitted? Because in U.K. they are pretty much on the corner of every field along a route, in some places they are every 50m apart?
if people follow the wording you use we will end up with 90% of wayspots in the country being trail markers because there is a “named trail” literally everywhere over here
How many clarifications do people need until they get it? What is your plan here? Continue asking until you get the answer you think is the correct one?
The ruling for trail markers has been clarified multiple times and in great detail. Move on and review accordingly.
Casey's last comment included
You should still review every Wayspot according to all guidelines:
If the trail markers are every 50m then they're hardly Visually Unique and/or Historically or Culturally Significant.
The trail markers are visually unique because they are designed to stand out from their surroundings. It does not mean 'is it the only one in the area', it means 'can you find the POI against the surroundings'.
The trail (with the markers that are the POI on the trail) is culturally important because walking in nature or along an interesting trail is part of our culture.
@NianticCasey-ING thanks for the follow up.
the big problem here is still, that i get rejections for most of my trail markers. here in my town we do have quite alot, and they are very nice to look at, and they are a magnet for everyone walking by.
i put one here for example, so you can see.
Here in Germany people still reject them quite often. like post offices. there are always people who say that our trailmarkers are not wayspots. and they always find something about them.
For myself, i can only say they do not get accepted because they dont have a TrailName on it. Instead, they have all other things that a good trail marker should have.
Is there any chance you can clarify the term visual uniqueness please.
Some , myself included, say that having multiple instances of the same looking POI (usually trail markers) in a small area, means that they are not visually unique and should be rated sub 3*, personally if there are 5 or more of the same looking POI in a small are I would 1* them
Others say that visual uniqueness is only if a POI stands out of its nearby surroundings, it doesn't matter if their are identical POI's in the same small area, its visually unique to where it is located and so always score them 3* or above.
Please can you clarify which position is correct ?
For reference I would classify a small area, as the area of the Wayfarer map which shows all the nearby POI's to check for duplicates.
When doing Wayfarer reviews, under the heading "Visually Unique" it states:
"A visually unique nomination should not be something that is common in the area."
I don't see how they could be any more clear than that. If something is common in the area, it should get a lower rating on visual uniqueness. The more common, the lower the rating should be. The less common, the higher the rating should be.
For the reference, small area by that standard would be approximately 3km x 2km.
Nomination above not mine, reviewed a moment ago.
Interestingly i just did 4 reviews, the map area on 2 was aprox 1km by 1km , where as the other 2 were 500m at maximum. There is no uniform map size when populating nearby POIs
True. I was about to edit my answer after realising/noticing that as well.
Unless they have changed something, nearby wayspots during review is a 500 meters radius around the nomination.
I have a follow up question why do Trail Markers have to have the "Trail Name" In my region they don't actually name trails.
There was a sign that literally said "Beginning of Bike Trail." Trail followed a river for mile+ Wed then connected to another unnamed trail that went 5 miles east to a beach and 5 plus miles west. The beach was named the same as the road. None of it "Named" but known locally by river, and road/beach it ran along.
It doesn't make a lot of sense that its not eligible because the community didn't name it "Clinton River Bike Trail" or "Metro Parkway Bike Trail"
You can see it on google maps, but the sign isn't named
I was also hoping for more specific rejection ratings to the submitter so they know what to improve on :<
If people will choose the right reasons that'd be great. As it stands, a lot of people seem to choose completely irrelevant rejection reasons. But I still would like Niantic to try something like this.
So does this mean that you're taking back your AMA statement that everything inside a hospital building is ineligible? Will this clarification be published? Please understand that with the publication of "inside hospital means inelgible" we stand to lose many safe, existing waypoints to removal requests. Some people will read your response, some will read the AMA Official Response on the Help page or on these forums, and others might rely on their accumulated knowledge of the game. I'd like that clarification not only published, but visible.
I can argue that there is absolutely no physical space on earth where one can prove 100% that a waypoint will not interfere with emergency services. If I am out and about looking at waypoints and collapse of a heart attack brought on by frustration over Niantic's contradictory statements, for example, I may fall at the base of a lovely statue that's a waypoint in game. What if the extra seconds that it took first responders to get to my unresponsive body, because they had to walk around an art lover or a portal hacker, were the ones that cost me my life? Would removing the waypoint from the game solve the issue for future cardiac patients? Likely not. That lovely statue will still draw onlookers whether or not it's in game.
It's not the people who put 1* and pick a reason in that category.
It's people who put a lot of 2* where you dont have to pick a reason that imo are the biggest ?
First, thanks to everyone involved in this answers.
I want to ask something that I always wanted to ask: why can't we see, at least during the nomination process, all the Wayspots already live to avoid submit duplicates? Since the company to follow, I don't know why, these differents distances rules to each game, pokémon go players can't know if they're doind duplicates. @NianticCasey-ING
Thank you for the great opportunity to be part of the community and I am going to be able to make an proper report explaining of the situation I am asking for support and I will try to continue my research. Looking forward to hearing from you and I hope you have a great day. Thank you for your time and help
Going along with what Shilfiell had said, I work at the local VA where there are several buildings. A handful are for medical services. There's other buildings where doctors and patients don't go. Offices, veterans crisis call centers, engineering, etc.
There's also chapels inside some of the buildings. None of which are near emergency services.
However, despite providing links to campus maps for reviewers to verify that it's nowhere near emergency or essential services, they still get rated as such.
To be perfectly honest, until we get a legitimate answer for why pools are not considered good POI, I will still rate them highly. Pools meet all the basic tenets of Niantic's philosophies of getting outside, exercising and gathering with your community. The fact that Niantic continues to ignore our requests for clarification makes me dig my heels in further on this issue.
I would like to formally state that I am not looking forward to the ability for someone else to come along and replace the photo on a stop or gym I created. I feel that this could be abused the way Ingress players have abused portal edits within their territories. If I spent my time scouting a POI, taking the photo, writing out the submission, and doing enough reviews to get it upgraded, I don't want someone else to come along and replace my photo. I take great pride in doing the best job I can do.
I also really dislike the fact that additional photos and upvotes in Ingress, a game very few people play, are what drive which POI turn into gyms in GO. That is a terrible, terrible system that I hope you're going to fix. As the players on the ground, we have an understanding of which POI make the best gyms due to things like nearby parking, cell phone reception, ease of access, etc. The requirements on those things are very different for stops and gyms.
In my experience that anxiety is unwarranted if you make a high quality submission in the first place (which you claim to be doing anyway). I've been actively working on my Scout Controller badge (Number of unique Portal/Pokestop scans) and have been continually submitting new photos to usurp old low-quality or generally bad photos. However, where the existing photos are fine, the subject is clear and visible and presented well, there's no need to add an additional photo because it wouldn't add any value to the wayspot. So if you take pride in your work, then I have no doubts your work will remain safe and viewed highly.
Sure there may be some bad eggs or cheeky players that submit extra photos, but they'll have to be reviewed first before being added to the wayspot. So there's a good chance any poor quality or even lesser quality images simply won't make it through in the first place.
Amongst the Ingress community, a high quality photo is generally seen and voted on favourably because it is a high quality photo that represents the subject wayspot aesthetically. Unfortunately due to the mechanics you mentioned, there are many portals that have suffered photo voting abuse in order to manipulate which wayspot becomes a gym in Pokemon Go. It would be great if those manipulative votes could be cleared because from what I have seen, the PoGo players don't care what the image is, they just care about the outcome in a separate game. Hopefully now that the gym creation has been changed this practice no longer continues, but there's still the issue of legacy voting manipulation to deal with - and unfortunately from what I have seen, many wayspots have over a dozen votes, but there aren't enough Ingress players to outvote the old/bad photo with a new proper photo. Perhaps this too could change once wayspot photos are visible in PoGo and perhaps players can then also take pride in representing each wayspot with a good image. Only time will tell.
The reason is that Niantic doesn't want community pools in their poi database. I disagree with some of their criteria, but I review according to my understanding of what they want rather than blindly rating things highly that I think Niantic should want in their database. That should be the basic rule for reviewing in Wayfarer, review it like Niantic would want it reviewed.
Their clarification in this thread has been very helpful, though - apparently the only automatically ineligible pools are those used exclusively for recreational swimming. So pools used for training & exercise do not fall into that category. If your local community pool runs aquaerobics, senior fit, mother-baby classes or has lanes for training, it could be eligible.
I have an MBA and my wife has a PhD and reading this September AMA had me scratching my head with unreasonably complicated answers or propped up more questions on grey areas of the topic. Then I realized that this is advanced reading level:
That means that approximately 70% of U.S. will not grasp the literacy understanding of these AMA statements. According to 2013 Program for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies (PIAAC), half of U.S. reads at 7th grade level or below.
This is why I've emphasized demonstrating lots of sample photos and visual aid. We've all made mistakes as I've been through this and learned to simplify my writing to capture a wider audience. These books helped me:
But some photos deserved to be replaced. Here is an example that cannot be done until someone at Level 8 Ingress stops by and change the generic rule sign right next to this beautiful Family Aquatic Center/Town Square building (It looks a lot better on site).
Personally, I avoid spinning ugly Pokestops for Gifts like purified water mills and rule signs or else delete them. Then spin nice ones and send Gifts representing beautiful photos or places.
Also, camera photo quality improves or remodeling happens and photos become outdated.
Couldn't agree more. You shouldn't need to have to "layer" the guidelines and there are all sorts of mental gymnastics used to justify things when Niantic chooses to be unclear. This AMA just adds another page, too, that many won't look at or take seriously because it doesn't feel like Niantic takes the guidelines seriously, themselves. Unclear guidelines lead to people misinterpreting, guidelines in different pages and/or unlinked domains (old AMAs and the old OPR) lead to intentional disagreements for reviewers from Niantic. Disappointing.