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1. Browse the known issues section or check if another user previously posted about a similar issue.
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3. Refer to the Best Practices to learn how to write a bug report.
4. File each issue separately if you’ve encountered multiple issues.
Pokéstops are disappearing from PoGo only (Ingress is fine)
MalarjusVoynich-ING
Posts: 116 ✭✭✭
There are multiple reports that pokéstops in already occupied level 17 cells are getting killed, while portals in Ingress are kept online.
@NianticCasey-ING, I hope this is a bug.
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I can in fact confirm that this is the case, we've seen this happen in our community aswell... As far as we understand, it's probably related to the lingering problem of Location Edits not syncing for several Pokéstops. And apparently, the way this has now been "fixed" is by reverting them to Portals altogether.
Basically, the way this was previously thought to work was that whenever a Pokéstop was moved too close to an existing one, any suggested edit for it wouldn't be updated in game. This was the case for title and description changes, but also to the location on the overworld map. Now, it seems that most of these bugged Pokéstop have disappeared, being reverted to a Portal state, essentially rendering them exclusive to Ingress.
This basically means that whenever someone wanted to improve the in-game location of a Pokéstop, instead of rewarding them for their effort, the Trainer who suggested the edit is punished by having their Pokéstop disappear completely.
I understand the fact that this change might have been pursued in order to prevent potential abuse, but honestly it's extremely discouraging to see that even genuine attempts to improve the Wayfarer database are being punished as a result of this.
I don't see any reason why the available Wayspots should be different for any of Niantic's games. Having a single, unified system would make it possible for every player to help and improve on the database, without needing to worry about the restrictions imposed by which Portals are visible and which aren't.
And moreover, as long as this kind of changes keep being introduced, the abusers will always find a way to exploit the system, only leading to further damage and waste of resources. Enabling every player in every Niantic game to see and interact with all of the Wayspots in the database could technically act as a reliever, severely slowing down the potential for grief in the process
Just to collect more cases and explain to Niantic what is actually happening:
So what happens/happened: If a location edit goes through and a stop gets moved to another S2 level 17 cell where there already is a stop/gym, then the whole level 17 cell gets reevalued, meaning the system removes all but one stop. This only happens to cells in which a new stop is moved.
But the biggest concern is: Niantic did not communicate this change in behaviour of location edits at all. Please, Niantic, you cannot change something so important without informing the players beforehand! And a question that necessarily has to follow: Was this change in behaviour of location edits intentional?
I would recommend to report all lost pokestops or gyms in the invalid wayspot appeal section.
Niantic has never communicated why some POIs are left out of Pokemon go. Now they won't comment on those lost pokestops/gyms. A lot of people but a lot of effort to help develop their and others playing areas. And they should know what is happening. Niantic gets the benefit on all of this unpayd work.
We lost 3 stops today, I'm afraid to post the location out of fear that we'll lose more.
Side note: if someone wants to ruin the gameplay experience for pogo players just need to submit micro-edits (which usually got accepted) in order to move pokestops in busy cells and make them disappear.
@LMSchiano-PGO yeah exactly, it's nothing new that many Ingress players like to abuse the system by requesting minor location edits to an enemy Portal, only to make the existing fields decay, but this time around it could severely harm players in other Niantic games aswell. Not to mention the fact that they often think we're the ones ruining the system, so they might also suggest these edits out of spite. And sometimes they even go as far as straight-up requesting the deletion of a Portal only to harm the opposing faction... What a messed up situation we've found ourselves in 🤦🏻♂️
In my case, two pokestop disappeared. But I can still access them using Pokémon Go plus.
Niantic has changed their spacing algorithm to combat location edit abuse that created artificial Pokestops and gyms where none should have existed. Niantic has never commented on the specifics of their spacing algorithm even if players have reversed engineered it, so Niantic will not make any comments about changes to that algorithm. Now, areas that have benefited from previous location edit abuse will now have to deal with the consequences of that abuse. All Niantic will do is state that things are working as intended.
So this is consistent? Or just happens randomly?
The silence is deafening @NianticCasey-ING
After applying location edits to pokemon go, some pokestops dissapeared on the map. But it seems that those stops are still there. With go plos you can still interact with those pokestops.
Hi folks,
Thanks for surfacing this. I understand that you’re concerned about changes to available PokéStops in your area.
I have discussed this with the Wayfarer team and the Pokémon GO team at length to ensure that there is no issue at play and can confirm that this is expected behavior. In this specific case, there was a rule within Pokémon GO that was meant to be implemented that wasn’t functioning properly, which caused overly dense clusters of Wayspots in some areas. This will not be reverted.
Across all of our apps, the game board is expected to change regularly. While it may not always feel like it, these changes are made in the interest of the player experience across all Niantic apps. Additionally, I want to remind everyone that not every Wayspot is eligible to appear in every Niantic app. Each has its own density and inclusion rules to optimize for that specific app.
Finally, to address the issue that a few of you have raised about these “missing” Wayspots still being interacted with by the Pokémon GO Plus and Poké Ball Plus devices, this is actually a bug that will be fixed in an upcoming release of Pokémon GO. The Wayspots in Pokémon GO should be considered the source of truth and the “invisible” PokéStop is incorrect.
Thanks for understanding!
Thank you for addressing this.
Hi @NianticCasey-ING,
While I understand Niantic's position for tamping down on abuse, I honestly believe this such change opens up the door to even worse, more malicious abuse, and will discourage Pogo players from correcting inaccurate wayspots.
What can happen now is that someone could make a location edit out of malice, placing the new location near an existing wayspot, costing a community not only that wayspot, but in some cases a gym as well. This is a much greater issue than an area being too dense, or abusers moving wayspots to create a dense area. This can have a far more negative impact to Pokemon Go players. By making this rule to tamp down on one set of abusers, you have now opened the door for another set, and arguably more malicious set of abusers.
How will Niantic handle this sort of abuse?
Glad to see you all are taking control over your platform again, instead of allowing the inmates to run the asylum.
The Level 17 S2 cell restriction is a headache in Pokémon Go for numerous reasons and this will just make it worse. I've seen people submit Wayfarer nominations, see them accepted, and wonder why they don't show up in Pokémon Go. I've also seen numerous Wayfarer nominations when reviewing that turn out to be duplicates, because people don't realize it's already in Ingress. There are areas in my city that would have more gyms (and therefore more raids) were it not for the L17 restriction. People who are aware of the restriction have to pick and choose POIs if multiple eligible POIs exist in the same cell (I've had to deal with this on numerous occasions with trail markers close to one another). Also, fewer PokéStops means less chances for Rocket Battles (which would mean fewer Potions and Revives to buy, by the way), lures during Community Days, and fewer chances to catch Pokémon (which kills the playability of the game in some places). There's no reason for PokéStops to be so restrictive.
Maybe come up with smaller PokéStops that provide fewer items per spin (or take more time to recharge) in dense areas, instead of not showing up in Pokémon Go at all. I've seen places in my neighborhood that have over twice as many Ingress portals as PokéStops/Gyms combined. This is stupid.
Also, the fact that Niantic is always swift to fix beneficial bugs (like the recent Pokémon Go Plus bug with invisible stops), yet takes months to fix detrimental bugs (if they fix them at all!) shows that they can't get their priorities straight and couldn't care less about their players. There have been bugs in Pokémon Go that have been around since 2016, but no, stuff like the Go Plus bug gets fixed instead. Maybe fix other bugs? Just a thought since a lot of people in my area stopped playing or stopped spending money due to all the bugs that never get fixed.
The most stupid solution Niantic has made. Terrible thing.
@NianticCasey-ING,
Thank you for clarifying this. As Sunkast also mentioned, this will potentially leave the door open for further abuse. While current steps have been taken to minimize location edit abuse, now you're going to be experiencing even further abuse with misplaced Wayspots by those who want more Wayspots to be accessible to them and their fellow players in Pokemon Go.
You also mention that each Niantic game has it's own density and inclusion rules (Ingress & HPWU using L18 S2 cells, PoGo using L17 S2 cells). Adjusting Pokemon Go to L18 S2 cells seems like the most fair balance between making Niantic's paying customers happy with proper Pokestop density and cutting down on abuse. Using L18 cells with 20m rule would allow nearly all Waystops to show in Pokemon Go, which would cut down on nearly all edit abuse by Pokemon Go players trying to get as many stops as possible. In addition to that people would be more inclined to submit POI's in their proper location rather than 1 or 2 meters away by trying to game the system. It would also be fair to small towns and parks that just happen to be unlucky and fall within 1 or 2 L17 cells despite having more than 2 eligible potential Wayspots. If L18 S2 cells were used instead, it would greatly help rural and small town players who are constantly in dire need of a better game experience compared to those who live in cities and large, densely populated areas.
I understand the logic behind what the Wayfarer and Pokemon Go team is trying to do, but there has to be a better way to go about it than removing Pokestops and Gyms just because they are in the same L17 S2 cell as another Wayspot (giant clusters aside). Removing these stops and gyms due to location edits that could be proper edits that are improving the Niantic Wayspot database is just going to cause frustration. Not to mention it could potentially lead to abuse in the sense where someone intentionally moves a gym or stop to make it disappear out of spite to other players.
While moving Pokemon Go to L18 S2 cell level with 1 Wayspot in each cell and leaving the 20 meter rule in tact would not prevent all abuse (there will always be abuse by some people who are just never happy), it seems like a happy medium between keeping a majority of people happy with a fair amount of Pokestops & Gyms, preventing location edit and submission abuse, creating a more full and accurate database for Niantic, and keeping Niantic's paying customer base happy with a game that isn't taking away from them.
Casey, thanks for reading this and I hope you take this into consideration.
Hi thanks for finally responding @NianticCasey-ING
however you haven’t answered all the questions asked.
could you please clarify if it is only location edits that cause this to happen?
l have submitted new photos, improved descriptions etc. I have stopped doing this until it is clarified if it will affect Pokemon Go negatively.
I have stoped reviewing any edits for fear of an innocent negative impact.
I don’t want to blamed for any changes.
It sounds as though it is the Pokémon Go arm of Niantic that Pokémon Go players should complain to not wayfarer? Is this correct.
Finally could you please take into consideration that the lack of communication that persists overall is highly detrimental and shows a fundamental lack of respect and causes friction.
Please consider those with disabilities such as ASD.
🤮🤮🤮
I hope you realise that now no PoGo player will attempt to correct incorrect locations or review location edits out of fear of losing Pokéstops! 🙂
And what about rules reagarding Ingress? Completely getting ignored?
And what is your excuse/reasoning for making objects changeable, that have an ingame progress bar like gyms in a players profile?
Your system destroys whole game mechanics. Gym badges are sitting in the profile forever and they are something lots of people take a lot of pride in. Loosing gold badges is not nice; also having forever bronze or silver badges is not nice. It's like robbing ingress players a part of a mission-mosaic .....
@NianticCasey-ING question is ....
Why all pois don't appear in all games ??
And why ingress player's get to enjoy them all ?
We have so many eligible things. We nominate and even after accepting it doesn't come in Pokemon go.
It's also waste of our nomination, as many players aren't even aware that it's in same s17 cell or let's say they don't even know what is s17 cell.
Also size of s17 cell is different at different place.
Please try to change rules. If possible please take feedback from all Pokemon go players via in game response.
It's annoying to see accepted things don't come in game. May b that's why ppl do edits people are so excited to nominate stuff & see it getting accepted. But not seeing it in Pokemon go is annoying. You all mentioned that it may not appear in all games after it has been approved.
Thanks for understanding.
This is a good example of not considering the effects of these unannounced decisions on players mental health and those with disabilities such as ASD.
Part of the game is about collecting and there are completionists, where this is their driver for playing. This action could have a very negative effect on their health. At anytime this would not be good but the situation with COVID 19 has made this much worse.
@NianticCasey-ING can you please establish if effects on players health were taken into account in the handling of this whole situation?
I have started to try and support people in our group who would be effected if this happened- I don’t think it will but it is all about preparing people that it might happen.
And yet, the new enforcement of density is ONLY for pokemon go. Ingress portals violating density rules remain intact.
"Across all of our apps, the game board is expected to change regularly. While it may not always feel like it, these changes are made in the interest of the player experience across all Niantic apps... Each has its own density and inclusion rules to optimize for that specific app."
As multiple commenters have noted this opens up for game-harming abuse. One way to minimize such incentive might be to include more wayspots in the less dense games, by adding new features to pin on Wayspots. They need not be Gyms or Pokéstops in PoGO for instance, but visible and correctable. This might help if you actually want the Wayspots to correlate with reality, rather than a virtual grid. Spawn points already seem to tie to Wayspots, so in a minimalistic version it could just be gathering spots.
This is a load of bullocks. I don't think reviewers will suddenly start approving move edits that relocates a Wayspot away from its physical location. In fact, I think Niantic's enforcement of its spacing algorithm will do more to encourage reviewers to choose the most accurate location instead of worrying about S2 cells.
@BaltiCalling-ING Yeah, except for the fact that now it's like they decided to intern perfectly sane people aswell in this "asylum" you so speak of, and by doing so they've also turned them into crazy psychopaths, whereas there would have been no other issue beforehands. Oh and they also forgot the keys to the backdoor and threw them into a cell so that everyone of them might now escape lol
With this decision Niantic has some problems to solve.
In my region the only active wayfarers which are submitting and reviewing are pokémon go players. Most of them know the cell mechanics. Nobody of them would submit a POI which won't show up in Pokemon go.
It is the same with location edits. Why should someone correct a loction if it would mean less Pokestops. I corrected a lot of misplaced POIs. I especially looked for misplaced POI which I could move to get more Pokestops or gyms in the game. I would never touch a location edit with this decision. Why should I do unpayed work which I do not get another benefit from?
There would have been much better solutions for the location edit abuse problem. But this solution clearly shows that Niantic does not care about parts of their community. They do not communicate their changes beforehand and they do not listen to the community.
In negative effect they even give those abusers more reasons to abuse the system with this decisonnto keep the cell rules for pokemon go. In a lot of places there are many POI in condensed places. In my city there is a cell which got 6 portals and only one pokestop. If those POI would be nominated now a days they probably would be misplaced to get them in to the game. This just leads to an inefficient wayfarer system.
It is the same with duplicate nominations. They just let pokemon go players nominate the same poi which are invisible to them all over again