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The intent of the discussion was met - @NianticCasey-ING (and hopefully other members of the Niantic staff) have seen the community concern. Thanks for the taking the time to reply!
I personally don't buy into the baseless conspiracy theory, but I also don't think a simple "fake news" Wayforum comment will convince anyone who is buying into the nonsense.
And, to be fair, we've heard a similar statement before, regarding Gyms disappearing.
Let me also say that THIS IS NOT THE INTENDED FINAL BEHAVIOR.
Yet, it's become more or less understood (and even clarified) that it is now the expected (and intended) behavior.
Hey, if scans somehow help me nuke unwanted Wayspots, maybe I'll even start doing them, again! I certainly HOPE the Niantic staff considers using scans when reviewing Invalid Wayspot petitions.
I also don't think a simple "fake news" Wayforum comment will convince anyone who is buying into the nonsense.
Can confirm this, because when I posted @NianticCasey-ING's statement to the Pokemon Go subreddit, the very first response was to call it a lie.
They do care if there house is part of the picture and it’s a largely residential area.
But different places , different cultural attitudes.
It may be pertinent to look into why certain people are prone to believing conspiracy theories. Some people believe conspiracy theories because they are not educated enough but others believe conspiracy theories because there is an entity they don't trust. E.g. the government. In this case, people don't trust what Niantic says.
There is a distinct lack of trust in Niantic and people often feel (rightly or wrongly) that Niantic does not have the best interests of the players in mind. Their communication is often poor and they need to start earning back the trust of players. That's what I think anyway.
Ultimately the Wayfarer Team and a not insignificant subset of Go players (and presumably some Ingress/HP/whatever players) simply have fundamentally different and potentially conflicting goals. The Wayfarer team assumedly wants to create and maintain a highish quality and expansive database of POIs that can be used by the developers of Niantic's products and whoever they license it out to. Whereas those players want as any easily accessible stops as possible, relation to real world POI be ignored entirely if needed. As long as players who care more about getting stuff in their games than they do about the integrity of the Wayspot database are allowed to participate in Wayfarer, an adverbial relationship is probably unavoidable.
The big question is will these updates show up in Prime?
Just to chime in with my major concern...
People are reporting invalid wayspots, I do all the time when I come across wayspots that aren't actually real. Most of the time these reports get rejected for lack of evidence, now that people are starting to scan this potentially adds to the pool of evidence available for reviewing removal reports. And if people are not scanning the POI correctly, they're just adding to the pool of evidence that something doesn't exist, even if it does.
But My concern when someone reports something for removal as a spam report, where normally the lack of evidence on spam removal reports would just be discarded for not having the evidence needed. but with so many people performing AR scans without actually trying to scan the wayspot, NIA can the portal scans when reviewing it for removal, for a portal that may see a bunch of fake AR scans, that's going to be a lot of evidence in favor of removal,
Even if it's not happening yet, it's still a possibility and the AR scanning system in PoGo is deeply flawed the same way the Seer badge was flawed. It incentivizes bad faith contributions to the Wayfarer database that only pollutes the data pool. I'm already seeing that most people I talk to about AR scanning in PoGo don't bother to do it right at all, They kind of just wave their phone around randomly while standing in range. AR scanning rewards in pogo are too good, and there isn't enough done to validate they did it correctly before giving them the rewards. AR contributions should go through the wayfarer review system or something before rewards are given.
The rewards are 99% c.r.a.p. and no one would want to review the AR scans.
Agreed with @WheelTrekker-ING AR rewards are trash. I never do them as they are a giant wasteof time
I think the rewards are really nice. A TM or an Incense for 60 seconds of my time is well worth it.
I never understand when people say they scan the pavement not the object. If I don't want to do it properly, I just don't do it. If I have time, I'll do the task, but I'll do my best to do it well.
This is why I think the rewards need removed. They're premium items that you otherwise have to spend coins on. There is way too much of an incentive to do the AR scan poorly.
I can't figure out how to reply to multiple comments at the same time, so I'll quote this one too, https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/53212/#Comment_53212
You may not care about poffins and incense, but they're premium items you otherwise have to spend coins on, and LOTS of people are faking AR scans for them. There are almost no-one I've talked to in my pogo community that does AR scanning correctly. Most don't bother doing it, but those who do, they either half-**** it for the reward, or they just fake it entirely.
As for no-one wants to review AR scans, it would be easy. They show all the pictures of the POI, and ask the reviewer to select which pictures are matching. The AR scan can just be a animated gif so that it's just one picture.
While I appreciate the lively discussion about the PokéStop Scanning feature, just a gentle reminder that we've veered off-course of Wayfarer focused discussions. I wanted to directly address two of the questions that came up in this thread:
The overall goal of AR scanning in both Ingress and Pokémon GO (as well as future iterations of AR scanning in other apps) is to allow devices to better understand what they are looking at in order to augment reality in real-time and allow Niantic to explore and deliver new types of AR experiences, which require an accurate and up-to-date 3-D map of the world. The Reality Blending feature in Pokémon GO is a great example of this type of experience.
Hope that helps!
Ive never seen a reward be an incense or a tm lol. Though i keep one so i dont have to keep deleting them constantly now
[...] AR scanning rewards in pogo are too good [...]
Are we playing the same game 🙈
This was one I actually wanted to scan to help prove Niantic doesn't look at scans when considering invalid reports, but decided not to because the "reward" is just insulting.
Well, they definitely happen. I've seen Incense, TMs, and even Poffins.
The phrasing there actually brings me to seek clarification. You seem to have either left something out of your answer, or dodged the question so I'm gonna press you more directly about a hypothetical situation.
Step 1) Someone gets an AR Quest for a pokestop, they do a AR scan but the POI that isn't there anymore. So they scan the area where the POI used to be.
Step 2) Someone else reports that POI as invalid. They also get the AR scanning quest, but instead of scanning the area it used to be in, they report the POI as no longer existing.
Step 3) Someone at Niantic reviews this removal request
While they're reviewing the removal request from Step2, do they have access to the AR scan from Step1? Are AR Scans for a POI a datapoint that removal reviewers can look at to make the decision to reject or accept the report that the POI is no longer there?
My concern is that they do, and that people who are faking the AR scans are not obviously different from our hypothetical step one, so the reviewer may accept the removal request on the grounds of it not existing anymore, based on a faulty AR scan.
P.S. we know that an invalid waystop report from a player isn't enough to get something removed, I've got a pokestop near me I've reported monthly for the past year as invalid because it's not there anymore, but my removal requests keep being denied.
Yeah, the wayspot won't update, it just updates the cell it's in, thus making the pokestop/gym disappear. Thanks for the really helpful answer 😂
Could you clarify what you're talking about there? Maybe give a very specific hypothetical situation that Casey could respond to directly. Because I'm not sure I understand what you think is happening.
Similarly to wayspot updates now making stops that break the L17 rule effectively disappear, scans possibly do so too.
Not my intent to be obtuse so let me be explicitly clear in response to your question: While they're reviewing the removal request from Step2, do they have access to the AR scan from Step1? Are AR Scans for a POI a datapoint that removal reviewers can look at to make the decision to reject or accept the report that the POI is no longer there?
AR scans are not considered at any point in the removal process.
Fair enough. You still will never catch me doing a scan not worth my time when i have bags full of those items. Also when its -25 celcius or worse here in canada i’m not going outside to do it lol. The other thing as well for the scans. You can literally scan anything and it will count. So i can scan my car for 30seconds lets say and then you get the reward 🤷♂️
Unfortunately, it's already hit one "news website" (and I use the term very loosely for obvious reasons). I've already contacted the website via twitter that the article is entirely fake news, but having delt with a similar fake news article over at Screen Rant that has yet to pull or correct a nearly 4 year old article after it was proven to be fake, I'm not holding out much hope.
That's a shame, if I report something and have scanned the area where it used to be, I make mention in the report to check the AR scan. If it's not part of the process, then that's a bit of a waste as it seems the reports themselves aren't reviewed properly either :(
Yeah, in all my communities I've got admin power in, we've fully banned that site. Anyone trying to share links to that site gets immediately deleted. They've shown a very clear and consistent disregard for facts, and they also utilize TONS of fake facebook accounts to circulate their posts in community facebook groups.
Thanks for the heads up @TheFarix-PGO, we are in contact with a few other press sites in response to the trend as well and our press team is talking to them.
My hope is that information gets distributed more widely by these outlets, as this specific article looks to be out of date even based on the content of this thread and the Pokémon GO subreddit discussion.
With respect, Niantic need to have a much bigger and more active precence of social media, getting clarification of things like this out into the "public domain" and pushing such posts onto all the Wayfarer / Ingress / PoGo groups out there. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of player have no idea of Wayfaere and how this all works.
I agree whole heartedly. And yet we struggle with even getting Niantic to tweet or do in game announcements for Wayfarer.
Can more awareness of Wayfarer be spread through in-game announcements and game-specific social media posts? Not only would this help spread awareness of the work that Explorers do but it will also open the door to more contributions by interested players.
This is a good question, we are absolutely talking about ways that we can recognize and celebrate the contributions that Explorers make to all Niantic Apps. The biggest challenge with this specific suggestion is the sheer amount of things happening in all of our apps and not every player is eligible to contribute, while all of them are eligible to participate in in-app events or initiatives.
Thanks, again, for continued involvement in this thread and taking into consideration the comments being made and the affect it is having on the audiences.
Is Wayspot scanning even something related to the Wayfarer team? It feels like something another team would handle. Or did it just get posted and clarified here cause this is one of the only places Niantic directly interacts with the playerbase?